Preseason Game 2 - Pats vs Eagles Aug. 19, Thurs. 7:30PM

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Wilkerson's drops are putting a real damper on his chances of making the team.
 
From Philly reporters who covered yesterday's practice. Our boys gotta step it up today

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Jalen Hurts outshines 'legendary' Cam Newton in Patriots-Eagles practices

Between New England defensive back Jalen Mills, formerly with the Eagles, and the young QB talking about the older QB, there's lots to track in Philly.
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Jalen Hurts, Eagles dominate Patriots in Day 1 of joint practices

The Eagles held the first of two joint practices with the Patriots at the NovaCare Complex on Monday, and while it was just one day, Sirianni’s group dominated Bill Belichick’s Patriots on both sides of the ball.
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Mazz22 said:
Lol. I was about to mention this. Bill does not care what the players and certainly not at all what the fans think.

That being said, I agree with Hawg in that Jones is a rookie and Cam is in his second year and Bill has treated Cam very differently than he has treated his past QBs. He knows Cam is a player that needs praise and has to have his tires pumped even when he plays poorly. So benching him is a delicate situation.

I think Miami last year handled the transition perfectly. They played Fitz for 6 games went 3-3 and then inserted Tua and went 7-3. Occasionally they sat Tua in games where he struggled and Fitz came in. That should be the model for us this year although I would like to see Mac play sooner than game 6 but the approach I think works assuming you get Cam's buy in. Cam is not Fitz but if Bill can get him on board with the transition and his role to come off the bench when needed than that would be ideal IMO
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1. A misquote. Somebody else said it, which I point out for obvious reasons. That happens.

2. I'm not going over the whole Drew vs. Tom thing again in detail. The prime difference between the two situations (for me) would be that Brady had a lot more time in the system than Mac does right now. The comparison would be more like Mac taking over for Cam in week two next year, which seems like a million years for now to a fan base who has largely decided that Cam sucks. First round status is irrelevant. What other teams decide to do is also irrelevant. The only thing that matters, to me, is whether Mac is fluent enough in what we do to keep his head on straight, move the chains and help us win when Bill decides the time has come to pull the plug on Newton and I'm not sure that time has arrived yet.

3. I don't personally subscribe to the believe that Bill doesn't give a damn about the player's opinions, which is a commonly held viewpoint. He constructs his roster very carefully to bring in guys that are excellent people and leaders and I think he will definitely consider all aspects of such a major move as we're discussing. We've read quotes from several players that they are impressed
with Mac, but that doesn't mean that they are privately throwing Newton under the bus or planning a mutiny. Yet. I don't get the sense that our guys share the same view as the fans, that
Cam Newton can't play football any more. Yet, but I do believe they need to see more production from him or that will change fairly soon.

4. If I thought I was as smart at pro football as Bill Belichick, which would be incredibly stupid and arrogant on my part, then I'd give the job to Mac right now and customize the offense to help him, if necessary, just like what happened when Brady came in for Drew and Charlie started calling all those screens which Brady excelled at.

But, I don't know how much of the offense he is actually comfortable in running right now nor do I know what goes on in that QB room. All I'm trying to do is guess what I
think is the most likely thing we'll see is and right now that looks like Newton to start the season with a short leash.

If he plays like he does at the beginning of last season or in the Ravens or Chargers game then he'll hang onto the job. If he plays like he did versus the Niners, Rams or Bills he'll be out before the frost is on the pumpkin. People tend to only remember the shitty games he's had here, but he did have some good ones. Inconsistent as hell and no real trend you could hang your hat on to any of it, but I'll maintain that he's not beyond the possibility of better times in 2021.

And you'll continue to maintain the exact opposite.
 
Hawg73 said:
But, I don't know how much of the offense he is actually comfortable in running right now nor do I know what goes on in that QB room. All I'm trying to do is guess what I think is the most likely thing we'll see is and right now that looks like Newton to start the season with a short leash.
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To me, that is the key and why I think Newton is our starter week 1 and beyond until Mac passes that threshold. As much as I want Mac to start, there is no reason to put him out there until he is comfortable. The last thing any of us want is for him to get hurt.
 
vertigho said:
He has a little bit of Marvin Harrison in him, you think?
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That's actually pretty good. Harrison was small and slight, but was able to play a ton of snaps.

It also occurred to me that Devonta might have some similarities to Jerry Rice, although Rice didn't have bony legs. I mean in the way he eats up
yards easily when he runs sort of like a gazelle and never seems to be sucking wind. Neither had a great 40 time, but nobody seems to be able
to cover them. Effortless, I guess.
 
Hawg73 said:
But, I don't know how much of the offense he is actually comfortable in running right now nor do I know what goes on in that QB room. All I'm trying to do is guess what I
think is the most likely thing we'll see is and right now that looks like Newton to start the season with a short leash.

If he plays like he does at the beginning of last season or in the Ravens or Chargers game then he'll hang onto the job. If he plays like he did versus the Niners, Rams or Bills he'll be out before the frost is on the pumpkin. People tend to only remember the shitty games he's had here, but he did have some good ones. Inconsistent as hell and no real trend you could hang your hat on to any of it, but I'll maintain that he's not beyond the possibility of better times in 2021.
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Okay, so here's what I'm puzzling in my little Flagg-head.

Can we assume that barring something pretty catastrophic Mac is the future QB of this team, and that Bill, Josh, etc. know this and are planning around it? I mean, I suppose if Cam suddenly starts getting the ball out right at the end of his drops, if his accuracy suddenly blossoms into command/precision, that sort of thing, it's a totally different conversation. But even in that case we'd still be looking at Mac as QB1 no later than 2022 - because Cam would suddenly be cost prohibitive after a year like that.

Can we also agree that while there's room for some disagreement around the margins, the two QBs seem to be playing more or less comparably thus far?

If both those things are true, what are you gaining (strictly in terms of the 2021 team) by playing Cam? If he's on a short leash, aren't you just counting on him failing and waiting for that to happen? Aren't you essentially assuring yourself of a split locker room, as any given performance will be evaluated by how close to The Cammac Line Cam's performance that day was? Going this route you're assuming either 1) that Cam gives you the best chance to win all year, OR 2) that he will fail at some point to a degree which provides you cover for making the switch to where you want to be, with Mac Jones taking over as QB1.

If you're assuming #2, isn't it better to avoid the split locker room, and the weekly drama of The Cammac Line analysis and start Mac from Week 1? Because you're assuming that you're going to be taking your lumps either way with #2, right? Once the season starts, there's no good way to get Mac good reps or get him in better sync with the starters - you'll need all that practice time for Cam if he's going to be successful. So wouldn't you be better off committing to him as early as possible?

So the only reason I can see that Bill would want Cam to start is because he's assuming #1 above - that Cam gives the Patriots the best chance to win all year. The only alternative I see is that he's willing to just take whatever comes this year as gravy, and he's trying to maximize Mac's effectiveness starting NEXT year. And while I appreciate that Bill plays the long game, I can't reconcile him doing anything that gives him a reduced chance to win any game - and certainly not taking that attitude towards a whole season - with what we know of his personality and outlook.

Maybe...maybe he's just waiting for Cam to get dinged up enough to provide him with the cover he needs to make the switch? Not hoping, but well aware of the likelihood that Cam's style of play will inevitably result in him needing to sit and recover, and that will be Mac's launch point? With the obvious benefit that if Mac is balling he keeps the job, but if he's struggling or needs a little more time Cam coming back provides that cover without damaging Mac's psyche.

I don't know. It's a tricky position to be in, especially given Cam's apparent status/standing in the locker room - there was even discussion that Cam being here influenced some of the FAs we were able to land in the offseason. I just think that the "Cam on a short leash" plan is assuming failure that "allows" for the change to Mac, which seems odd and essentially takes valuable reps away from Mac, potentially damaging both QBs.
 
Flagg the Wanderer said:
Okay, so here's what I'm puzzling in my little Flagg-head.

Can we assume that barring something pretty catastrophic Mac is the future QB of this team, and that Bill, Josh, etc. know this and are planning around it? I mean, I suppose if Cam suddenly starts getting the ball out right at the end of his drops, if his accuracy suddenly blossoms into command/precision, that sort of thing, it's a totally different conversation. But even in that case we'd still be looking at Mac as QB1 no later than 2022 - because Cam would suddenly be cost prohibitive after a year like that.

Can we also agree that while there's room for some disagreement around the margins, the two QBs seem to be playing more or less comparably thus far?

If both those things are true, what are you gaining (strictly in terms of the 2021 team) by playing Cam? If he's on a short leash, aren't you just counting on him failing and waiting for that to happen? Aren't you essentially assuring yourself of a split locker room, as any given performance will be evaluated by how close to The Cammac Line Cam's performance that day was? Going this route you're assuming either 1) that Cam gives you the best chance to win all year, OR 2) that he will fail at some point to a degree which provides you cover for making the switch to where you want to be, with Mac Jones taking over as QB1.

If you're assuming #2, isn't it better to avoid the split locker room, and the weekly drama of The Cammac Line analysis and start Mac from Week 1? Because you're assuming that you're going to be taking your lumps either way with #2, right? Once the season starts, there's no good way to get Mac good reps or get him in better sync with the starters - you'll need all that practice time for Cam if he's going to be successful. So wouldn't you be better off committing to him as early as possible?

So the only reason I can see that Bill would want Cam to start is because he's assuming #1 above - that Cam gives the Patriots the best chance to win all year. The only alternative I see is that he's willing to just take whatever comes this year as gravy, and he's trying to maximize Mac's effectiveness starting NEXT year. And while I appreciate that Bill plays the long game, I can't reconcile him doing anything that gives him a reduced chance to win any game - and certainly not taking that attitude towards a whole season - with what we know of his personality and outlook.

Maybe...maybe he's just waiting for Cam to get dinged up enough to provide him with the cover he needs to make the switch? Not hoping, but well aware of the likelihood that Cam's style of play will inevitably result in him needing to sit and recover, and that will be Mac's launch point? With the obvious benefit that if Mac is balling he keeps the job, but if he's struggling or needs a little more time Cam coming back provides that cover without damaging Mac's psyche.

I don't know. It's a tricky position to be in, especially given Cam's apparent status/standing in the locker room - there was even discussion that Cam being here influenced some of the FAs we were able to land in the offseason. I just think that the "Cam on a short leash" plan is assuming failure that "allows" for the change to Mac, which seems odd and essentially takes valuable reps away from Mac, potentially damaging both QBs.
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I know, right? I'm not even sure if I believe my own bullshit sometimes.

I still see warning signs with Cam that maybe the better weapons aren't really going to help. That he HAS lost his confidence or still isn't comfortable with all the sight reads required
in our system. That would explain why he seems to hesitate in pulling the trigger.

There are tons of dynamics at play here. To me, it's the most fascinating competition for one position the Pats have ever had including Brady/Bledsoe.

The only thing I know for sure is that it'd be better for the Pats if they both play well and make our air game competitive and I'm willing to look at Jones as sort of a pocket ace that will only
get better the longer the game goes.

I'm not concerned about 2022, but the best case scenario is that Cam does really well, his mojo is revived and he earns a decent contract elsewhere. Another successful Patriot rehab and everything is good. I view him as a one-season placeholder at best. I have to start seeing him set and fire like he really gets it or even that expectation seems unrealistic.
 
Flagg the Wanderer said:
Okay, so here's what I'm puzzling in my little Flagg-head.

Can we assume that barring something pretty catastrophic Mac is the future QB of this team, and that Bill, Josh, etc. know this and are planning around it? I mean, I suppose if Cam suddenly starts getting the ball out right at the end of his drops, if his accuracy suddenly blossoms into command/precision, that sort of thing, it's a totally different conversation. But even in that case we'd still be looking at Mac as QB1 no later than 2022 - because Cam would suddenly be cost prohibitive after a year like that.

Can we also agree that while there's room for some disagreement around the margins, the two QBs seem to be playing more or less comparably thus far?

If both those things are true, what are you gaining (strictly in terms of the 2021 team) by playing Cam? If he's on a short leash, aren't you just counting on him failing and waiting for that to happen? Aren't you essentially assuring yourself of a split locker room, as any given performance will be evaluated by how close to The Cammac Line Cam's performance that day was? Going this route you're assuming either 1) that Cam gives you the best chance to win all year, OR 2) that he will fail at some point to a degree which provides you cover for making the switch to where you want to be, with Mac Jones taking over as QB1.

If you're assuming #2, isn't it better to avoid the split locker room, and the weekly drama of The Cammac Line analysis and start Mac from Week 1? Because you're assuming that you're going to be taking your lumps either way with #2, right? Once the season starts, there's no good way to get Mac good reps or get him in better sync with the starters - you'll need all that practice time for Cam if he's going to be successful. So wouldn't you be better off committing to him as early as possible?

So the only reason I can see that Bill would want Cam to start is because he's assuming #1 above - that Cam gives the Patriots the best chance to win all year. The only alternative I see is that he's willing to just take whatever comes this year as gravy, and he's trying to maximize Mac's effectiveness starting NEXT year. And while I appreciate that Bill plays the long game, I can't reconcile him doing anything that gives him a reduced chance to win any game - and certainly not taking that attitude towards a whole season - with what we know of his personality and outlook.

Maybe...maybe he's just waiting for Cam to get dinged up enough to provide him with the cover he needs to make the switch? Not hoping, but well aware of the likelihood that Cam's style of play will inevitably result in him needing to sit and recover, and that will be Mac's launch point? With the obvious benefit that if Mac is balling he keeps the job, but if he's struggling or needs a little more time Cam coming back provides that cover without damaging Mac's psyche.

I don't know. It's a tricky position to be in, especially given Cam's apparent status/standing in the locker room - there was even discussion that Cam being here influenced some of the FAs we were able to land in the offseason. I just think that the "Cam on a short leash" plan is assuming failure that "allows" for the change to Mac, which seems odd and essentially takes valuable reps away from Mac, potentially damaging both QBs.
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This is why Big Mac should start on week 1...if what you say happens.
 
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