A trade went down before the deadline

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O_P_T said:
Regarding using a 4th round pick for him, I didn't notice anyone mention that we don't have a 5th or 6th next year (due to Ocho and Haynesworth).

So it isn't exactly true to say that BB thought he was '"worth more than a 5th of 6th round pick" because he didn't have that option.

I would assume that BB offered a 7th round initially and Tampa held out for more. The next highest offer we could make was a 4th.

So I'm not sure that one can read too much into the use of a 4th round in this case.

Is this a "desperate" move?

Yes and no.

Do the Pats have a serious need for better talent at DB?

I think we all agree the answer is yes.

Does Talib have talent?

Yes, but as it was mentioned before, we have to see him play in our system to know if he really can help.

I like the move since it reflects the fact that BB is doing something and trying to make the team better.

I'm not worried about Talib being a problem in the locker room. I think Brady, Vince, Mayo, etc. will be able to 'splain to him just how things work there.
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To put the draft pick cost in perspective, for a proven, accomplished starting NFL CB, BB just spent the same as he did for Wilhite back in 2008 (very late 4th-rounder).
 
Major A$$hole* said:
Ed Reed does the same. The difference is that Ed, and to a bit lesser degree Troy, has the speed, athleticism and more important football instincts to be make it work. I don't think Chung does. Yes, he can hit hard. So could Tebucky Jones. Being in position to swat the ball down and prevent a completion is more important. I'll take 2 passess defended over 1 big hit.
BB would have let Ed Reed freelance if he had been playing for the Pats the last 5 years.
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I think Chung did, back in 2010, but hasn't shown it to nearly the same level since - though he still tries to make plays as if he was still as fast.
 
MaineMan said:
To put the draft pick cost in perspective, for a proven, accomplished starting NFL CB, BB just spent the same as he did for Wilhite back in 2008 (very late 4th-rounder).
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Or Kareem Brown 5 years ago. :facepalm:
 
MaineMan said:
To put the draft pick cost in perspective, for a proven, accomplished starting NFL CB, BB just spent the same as he did for Wilhite back in 2008 (very late 4th-rounder).
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Rather have Talib for 8 games than Wilhite for 48.
 
spacecrime said:
Rather have Talib for 8 games than Wilhite for 48.
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Drafting in the secondary has been the area. That BB has sucked at the most drafting. Just too many CB's or Safties he has picked in the first 4 rounds that has been busts. I might be wrong Sameul might be the best CB he has drafted since he been here.
 
Talib basically allows us to retroactively call this season 19-0. No one gonna touch us. I don't care if he's beating nuns with tire irons so long as he's locking his man down on Sundays. Viva Aqib.
 
king of kings said:
Drafting in the secondary has been the area. That BB has sucked at the most drafting. Just too many CB's or Safties he has picked in the first 4 rounds that has been busts. I might be wrong Sameul might be the best CB he has drafted since he been here.
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Again, Wilhite was drafted at the tail end of the 4th and he played up to the historical average (or maybe slightly better) for CBs drafted in in the 4th round. So, it's not as if he failed to meet expectations.
 
MaineMan said:
Again, Wilhite was drafted at the tail end of the 4th and he played up to the historical average (or maybe slightly better) for CBs drafted in in the 4th round. So, it's not as if he failed to meet expectations.
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But it's not like we have a track record of drafting good secondary players. Butler, Meriweather, Hobbs, Wheatley and the list goes on..

I think one problem is that we're always trying to draft people who are versatile and good at pretty much everything. Even if the league is much more geared towards the pass than anything else now.
 
Michigan Dave said:
Talib basically allows us to retroactively call this season 19-0. No one gonna touch us. I don't care if he's beating nuns with tire irons so long as he's locking his man down on Sundays. Viva Aqib.
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You think he is that good? Who does he compare with. I know very little about him. My hope is that the ripple effect takes place and adding this one piece moves other pieces into positions where they can excel too, like McCourty o Safety. Too bad we have to wait a few weeks to see this unfold.
 
anderson said:
But it's not like we have a track record of drafting good secondary players. Butler, Meriweather, Hobbs, Wheatley and the list goes on..

I think one problem is that we're always trying to draft people who are versatile and good at pretty much everything. Even if the league is much more geared towards the pass than anything else now.
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Butler was extremely athletic with a solid college resume, but turned out to be a headcase.

Meriweather only played up to his 1st-round status occasionally, but was pretty decent on average for at least his first couple-three years.

Hobbs did very well for a guy picked near the end of the 3rd round, I thought. He was a pretty good RCB and often played well through injury (inluding a torn labrum in the 2007 SB). He was also by far the best returner the Pats have had during the BB Era. He was also very good later in Philly before suffering injuries that he couldn't play through.

Wheatley was a known injury risk, but the Pats were desperate for CBs at the time and took him at the end of the 2nd in 2008 after Godell confiscated their 1st-rounder over Spygate, thus causing them to miss out on several excellent players. As it turned out, it might have been better had they taken Terrell Thomas (who was taken next by the Giants), but I think only one or two of the 20-something CBs taken in that draft after Wheatley ever amounted to much (though several safeties did). OTOH, even Thomas has had a tough time staying healthy.
 
MaineMan said:
Butler was extremely athletic with a solid college resume, but turned out to be a headcase.

Meriweather only played up to his 1st-round status occasionally, but was pretty decent on average for at least his first couple-three years.

Hobbs did very well for a guy picked near the end of the 3rd round, I thought. He was a pretty good RCB and often played well through injury (inluding a torn labrum in the 2007 SB). He was also by far the best returner the Pats have had during the BB Era. He was also very good later in Philly before suffering injuries that he couldn't play through.

Wheatley was a known injury risk, but the Pats were desperate for CBs at the time and took him at the end of the 2nd in 2008 after Godell confiscated their 1st-rounder over Spygate, thus causing them to miss out on several excellent players. As it turned out, it might have been better had they taken Terrell Thomas (who was taken next by the Giants), but I think only one or two of the 20-something CBs taken in that draft after Wheatley ever amounted to much (though several safeties did). OTOH, even Thomas has had a tough time staying healthy.
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Hobbs was a good returner, but he was horrible at RCB. We've drafted 22 secondary players during BB's tenure and not many of them have ever paid dividends.

BB obviously knows more about football than any of us, maybe even 90% of us combined, but I would say there's something amiss with our talent evaluation when it comes to safeties and cornerbacks.
 
I'd say good/great safeties are rarer than good/great QBs. How many exceptional safeties are in the league right now?

Would love it if NE could wrangle Eric Weddle from SD or Eric Berry from KC :rockon:
 
Beaglebay said:
I'd say good/great safeties are rarer than good/great QBs. How many exceptional safeties are in the league right now?

Would love it if NE could wrangle Eric Weddle from SD or Eric Berry from KC :rockon:
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Goldson from the 9ers.
Michael Griffin from the Titans.
Byrd up in Buffalo.
Tyvon Branch out in Oakland.
Earl Thomas.

And I'm sure I've left a lot of people out (I know I have..)
 
anderson said:
Goldson from the 9ers.
Michael Griffin from the Titans.
Byrd up in Buffalo.
Tyvon Branch out in Oakland.
Earl Thomas.

And I'm sure I've left a lot of people out (I know I have..)
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and:
TJ Ward in Cleveland has been outstanding this year.
Reshad Jones in Miami.
Major Wright in Chicago.

I think Tavon Wilson is our best S unless you count McCourty as a S.

I wouldn't put Griffin on any list of best Safeties, though. Babineaux is Tenn's best S in my mind.

You know who isn't playing well at all this yr is Charles Woodson and Ed Reed isn't playing that well either.
 
Well I believe Aqib Talib is a perfect fit for the Pats secondary @ 6'1" 205lb, 26 years old, does a 4.46 40, is a proven superb press-man coverage CB, 20th overall 2008 draft pick, and can rock some socks off WRs.

Granted Aqib has a TON of character issues baggage, but with an opportunity on the Pats I honestly belief he can be lead down the straight path and be smartened up bigtime. This is in lieu of his still having one more week of suspension left on his tally and not being eligible until Pats Nov 18th Colts game.... lmao. Lastly, he also has some minor work ethic issues but I believe this can also be quickly straightened out by his overall Pats team comraderie in practice and especially in games.

Bottom line is that he can REALLY help the Pats secondary in a HUGE way if they can keep him on the straighten path and make him realize this is a tremendous opportunity of a lifetime for his overall NFL career. I am good with this acquisition for all my aforementioned reasons. :thumb:
 
Every draft pick is a risk. If anyone thinks that every DB that gets drafted that we haven't picked first is a Darrelle Revis, think again. They're few and far between. I agree with MM that Hobbs was a good CB, but his time ran out here. Butler was an excellent prospect, brilliance at UConn, athletic as hell, and was a good choice in the 1st round. He didn't pan out, but he was picked exactly where he should have been picked, and the choice to draft him was a good one. Meriweather was a good pick. He had the opportunity to be fantastic here, was on occasion, but he was also a headcase and liked to freelance.

So Belichick has drafted some very good defensive backs, including McCourty, and Chung who showed great skills his first couple of years and then the injuries set in. You all think he's gonna be drafting Ed Reeds with every single pick? A player may look phenomenal at the college level and never have that translate into the pros. Doesn't mean it was a bad pick. It was a good pick based on the scouting and testing that just didn't work out at the professional level.

/rant off
 
PatsFanLisa said:
Every draft pick is a risk. If anyone thinks that every DB that gets drafted that we haven't picked first is a Darrelle Revis, think again. They're few and far between. I agree with MM that Hobbs was a good CB, but his time ran out here. Butler was an excellent prospect, brilliance at UConn, athletic as hell, and was a good choice in the 1st round. He didn't pan out, but he was picked exactly where he should have been picked, and the choice to draft him was a good one. Meriweather was a good pick. He had the opportunity to be fantastic here, was on occasion, but he was also a headcase and liked to freelance.

So Belichick has drafted some very good defensive backs, including McCourty, and Chung who showed great skills his first couple of years and then the injuries set in. You all think he's gonna be drafting Ed Reeds with every single pick? A player may look phenomenal at the college level and never have that translate into the pros. Doesn't mean it was a bad pick. It was a good pick based on the scouting and testing that just didn't work out at the professional level.

/rant off
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I just have trouble agreeing with this, there is zero reason we should have a bottom 3 pass defense for 3 straight years, and you left out quite a few draft picks DB's that also failed. There is no reason our defense backfield should be this bad every year like this....people talk about standards set by players on this team and if they fall off those standards for even a week, we can be upset about it, well, BB's standard is something way better than the crap that has been out there for the past 3 years.
 
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