Belichick Pissed about WW's take out on Talib

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bideau

bideau

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At this morning's press conference, without being asked or prompted, Belichick had this to say:

“It is a deliberate play by the receiver to take out Aqib,” Belichick told reporters Monday morning. “No attempt to get open. And I’ll let the league handle the discipline on that play. It’s not for me to decide, but it’s one of the worst plays I’ve seen. And that’s all I’m going to say about that.”
 
I don't blame him one bit. He lost a lot of players to cheap hits this year. At some point you got to say something. But I think even if that hadn't happened, we weren't gonna win that game.
 
Do you think he meant "take out" in the sense of "block" or "intent to injure."
 
When it happened, I thought is was at minimum offensive pass interference.
What is surprising, is that BB is usually tight lipped about these types of things.
 
I don't know that Welker was trying to injure Talib (as he didn't go for his knees), but IMO, it was as blatant a "pick" as I've seen.

It's football, and stuff happens though.
 
Grumpy_Bottom said:
Well, since you can't "block" while the ball is in the air, I'd guess he meant the latter :shrug_n:
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I might be wrong, but the one replay I watched looked like the hit came at about the same time as the catch did?

The intent was certainly to take him out of the play, not sure about taking him out of the game though.
 
I think he meant intent to injure. WW is dead to me. Don't give a shit what he has done for us (which is really nothing but get a case of the butterfingers when it mattered most)
 
A pick play is usually just impeding the defender. This was a deliberate hit.
 
LeJaric Blount said:
I might be wrong, but the one replay I watched looked like the hit came at about the same time as the catch did?

The intent was certainly to take him out of the play, not sure about taking him out of the game though.
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Wasn't even close to being timed well, he was easily 3 steps early.
 
A defense has a couple of choices against Denver. Play soft, and left them have the short stuff, or play tough, get your hands on them. When you play tough, physical defense, and actually border on holding them all over the field, they have a response. It is called pick plays. We do it, Denver does it. Is Bill telling us a 185 pound slot receiver with concussion issues is a head hunter, and tried to hurt Talib? I can't accept that.
 
fjdad said:
A defense has a couple of choices against Denver. Play soft, and left them have the short stuff, or play tough, get your hands on them. When you play tough, physical defense, and actually border on holding them all over the field, they have a response. It is called pick plays. We do it, Denver does it. Is Bill telling us a 185 pound slot receiver with concussion issues is a head hunter, and tried to hurt Talib? I can't accept that.
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I agree with you. I haven' seen BB press conference, so I don't know what he was trying to say. It looked to me that Welker hit him in the ribs, not in the knees, so it's not a dirty hit to me.

Now to be honest, I don't know whether they were past the 5 yard "chuck" area or not (where picks are legal). If they were more than 5 yards out, then it could have been called as a penalty, however the refs have been letting them play for the most part in the playoffs, so I won't be crying if it was 7 yards out instead of 5.
 
Undertaker #59 said:
A pick play is usually just impeding the defender. This was a deliberate hit.
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it was deliberate and Wes knew the timing of the play and when to hit to keep it close enough to not have it called, I wonder if BB taught him that :D

what I wonder is if it was the hip he went for and just happened to hurt the knee/Rib or if he went after anything he could hit.
 
bideau said:
When it happened, I thought is was at minimum offensive pass interference.
What is surprising, is that BB is usually tight lipped about these types of things.
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Yeah, it was pretty obvious that he was furious over the play, especially since Hooman was flagged for offensive interference a few series earlier and it was quite borderline as Phil Simms pointed out. A terrible call and one that I expected a make-up call for. It was unusual for BB to be that aggravated and he said "everything changed" as a result of Talib's injuries which is borderline whining and not particularly BB-like.

Simms also compared it to the play where Edelman took Rogers-Cromartie down on a beautiful squeaky-clean shoulder block that happened while he was blocking for a runner, but there was really no comparison, imo. None at all. It was more of a "little white guy decleats other team's best corner" thing.

We never saw a full view that could give better context, but it looked to me from the view they did show like the clearest example of offensive interference you will ever see and an egregious cheap shot to boot by Welker. A flag would have been cold comfort for losing your top corner, but it seemed a complete failure of the refs to do their jobs and my guess is that was part of BB's anger over it hours later. How the hell could nobody see that? Is somebody going to tell me it was a clean hit? If so, then I don't know a goddamned thing about NFL rules anymore.

Given the big plays Talib's man made afterwards it could have well been the most important play of the game, but the bottom line is we probably would have lost anyhow. Denver is a better team than we are right now and we have a lot of work to do if we're going to beat their asses next year.
 
dchester said:
I agree with you. I haven' seen BB press conference, so I don't know what he was trying to say. It looked to me that Welker hit him in the ribs, not in the knees, so it's not a dirty hit to me.

Now to be honest, I don't know whether they were past the 5 yard "chuck" area or not (where picks are legal). If they were more than 5 yards out, then it could have been called as a penalty, however the refs have been letting them play for the most part in the playoffs, so I won't be crying if it was 7 yards out instead of 5.
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You got the rule wrong. Greg Bedard wrote an article on the subject last week. From his article:
There are two very important points to keep in mind when talking about legal versus illegal picks: within one yard of the line of scrimmage, anything goes—you can block the defender as much as you want and it doesn’t matter if the ball is in the air or not; but beyond that one-yard buffer it is illegal for an offensive player to initiate contact with a defender.

A basic pick play, like in basketball, occurs when an offensive player is stopped in the field of play. If a teammate runs by and the trailing defender runs into the player setting the pick, that is perfectly legal; the offensive player did not initiate the contact.

From there, however, it gets complicated. There’s a gray area that forces officials to judge intent. Incidental contact, just one guy running into another, is also not an infraction.

“What is that offensive guy doing?” Daopoulos says. “Is he trying to gain an advantage by rubbing somebody off? Has he initiated some contact that has put that defender at a disadvantage? That’s what you’re looking for. You’re looking for somebody gaining an advantage by doing something that they shouldn’t be doing.”
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By this definition, it was an illegal pick. Welker clearly altered his way and ran right into Talib. He initiated contact. Talib was also looking away, not seeing Welker. So this was basically a blind side hit by Welker. Definitely illegal. Maybe even cheap/dirty.
 
When I first saw the play, I was pissed there was no flag, I couldn't believe it. Deliberately or not, if was intended to put some hurt on Talib IMO
 
Defsoul said:
You got the rule wrong. Greg Bedard wrote an article on the subject last week. From his article:
By this definition, it was an illegal pick. Welker clearly altered his way and ran right into Talib. He initiate contact. Talib was also looking away, not seeing Welker. So this was basically a blind side hit by Welker. Definitely illegal. Maybe even cheap/dirty.
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There's no doubt that Welker initiated the contact, but I don't think I've seen it called inside the 5 yard chuck area, (where the DBs are also allowed to hit the WRs).
 
dchester said:
There's no doubt that Welker initiated the contact, but I don't think I've seen it called inside the 5 yard chuck area, (where the DBs are also allowed to hit the WRs).
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I could have sworn we were called on a play like that just a few games ago
 
dchester said:
There's no doubt that Welker initiated the contact, but I don't think I've seen it called inside the 5 yard chuck area, (where the DBs are also allowed to hit the WRs).
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Officials miss or don't call it, but it's still illegal. They have to call it if it happens outside the first yard from the LOS. I wouldn't be surprissed if the leagues looks into it in the offseason because the use of pick plays has gotten a little out of hand this season. We use it a lot, Denver uses it a lot and I'm sure other teams do it as well or will use it going forward since it's a copy cat league.
 
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