Desean Jackson

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I'd welcome the cutting of Vince in order to sign Jackson. Getting Jackson would also make the job of beating the Seahawks in next years SB a distinct possibility.
 
Your post made quite a bit of sense regarding cutting Wilfork for DeSean and I actually fully approve. You did lose me at the Ninkovich comment though because that guy is a baller and you are underestimating his abilities. Get another DE or two to give these guys a rest and I think you might find yourself surprised.
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elondon said:
Big names don't win championships? Then why did we sign Revis? Why did we trade for Moss? Why did the Broncos acquire Peyton Manning?
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Two of these guys have never won a championship, and Peyton has failed to win one with the Broncos.
 
elondon said:
Big names don't win championships? Then why did we sign Revis? Why did we trade for Moss? Why did the Broncos acquire Peyton Manning? Why did the Packers acquire Reggie White? This isn't baseball where you win with team chemistry and a Japanese closer no one has heard of. You really think LaFell is going to create mismatches in the secondary. He will be swallowed up like Deion Branch on his best day. Maybe Desean Jackson is a headache, but all he does is produce. He doesn't have an injury history. If he is too expensive, so be it, but the Patriots need to get a vertical threat on offense. I apologize if I don't think the Patriots should roll over and take one in the rear.
PS- Ninkovich sucks. He's an overacheiver who has maxed out his potential and gets coverage sacks and inflated numbers because he plays 100% of the defensive snaps.
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Wow, the way I see it you have this almost completely ass backward.

Baseball is the most individual of team sports, sure there are rolls in the batting order but if you have 3 superstars you'd find room for all 3 on your team and not think twice about it. In baseball if you can find a more productive second baseman you plug him in and the team improves. That's why you can actually have in season trades in baseball.

Football is all about system. Each player has to know his roll and do his job or the whole thing falls apart. You can hide a weak player in a baseball lineup, in a football lineup you are only as strong as your weakest link, and the opponenet will find and exploit that link.

Chemistry in a baseball clubhouse CAN be an issue becaue of the long season but the Martin/Jackson era Yankees killed everyone while hating each other every day.

Take Jared Allen, he's a great player, but really no fit for this system because he's never been in a 2-gap system. The same goes for receivers. There have been a lot of guys who come in here and are not successful because the system requires constant adjustment, both before and after the snap. Jackson's best year were in a West Coast scheme which is progression based (he runs his pattern and if the QB reads him open he gets the ball).

WRs are still the single most over valued position in football. Make a list of the 10 best WRs in football...tell me how many of them have won a ring.
 
Wiluven said:
Your post made quite a bit of sense regarding cutting Wilfork for DeSean and I actually fully approve. You did lose me at the Ninkovich comment though because that guy is a baller and you are underestimating his abilities. Get another DE or two to give these guys a rest and I think you might find yourself surprised.
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Agree.

Much like the Edelman dissent, I don't understand the Nink vitriol.

He measures out continuously much better than Chandler Jones, who everyone is enamored with. He was a FA, further emphasizing the prudence and value for the organization vs being a 1st we had to move up to grab. He makes more big plays and plays on the ball than Mayo. He just needs another complement to get some needed snaps off. 2 would be even better. Just keep rotating them in.
 
With Nink, quiet consistancy is over shadowed by high draft pick with upside.

Sometimes the constant is better because you know you are getting it.
 
elondon said:
Last time I checked the goal was to win a Superbowl. Based on their current roster, even if they were 100% healthy, they don't really stack up that well with the Seahawks, 49ers, and Broncos. They won't beat those teams in playoffs. Aside from Gronk, they have no explosiveness on offense. With the exception of Chandler Jones, they have zero pass rush. And Tom Brady has maybe 2 years left in the tank before he becomes a glorified Vinny Testaverde. The Patriots need to push the chips in. Desean Jackson is exactly what this offense needs. He's explosive. He's a playmaker. People were saying the same thing when Pats acquired Randy Moss and look how much it helped our offense. Jackson would certainly tip the odds in our favor.
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Another observation....

Pats went "all in" with Moss in O7, won a ton of games, went to the SB and lost, decent result but not what you want the goal to be. Moss in the Playoffs was meh, in the SB was less than Meh.

The years after Moss, and the years before Moss we won a bunch of regular season games and lost in the playoffs. Pretty much the same result.

Here's the thing, once you get to the playoffs the defenses, particularly the defensive backs are uniformly better than the ones you see in the regular season. When I think back to the years we were winning SB's I see a group of decent servicable WRs that could pressure the 4th, 5th and 6th DBs on the teams they were playing.

I am sticking to the evidence I have seen with my own eyes. TB is a better QB, and the Pats are a better team, when the targets are interchagable. When 5 guys catch 5 balls a piece. A Superstar WR is not the best use of cap space.
 
elondon said:
Big names don't win championships? Then why did we sign Revis? Why did we trade for Moss? Why did the Broncos acquire Peyton Manning? Why did the Packers acquire Reggie White? This isn't baseball where you win with team chemistry and a Japanese closer no one has heard of. You really think LaFell is going to create mismatches in the secondary. He will be swallowed up like Deion Branch on his best day. Maybe Desean Jackson is a headache, but all he does is produce. He doesn't have an injury history. If he is too expensive, so be it, but the Patriots need to get a vertical threat on offense. I apologize if I don't think the Patriots should roll over and take one in the rear.
PS- Ninkovich sucks. He's an overacheiver who has maxed out his potential and gets coverage sacks and inflated numbers because he plays 100% of the defensive snaps.
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While I agree that the Patriots need a deep threat, the argument you made to support this was so poor, that it has me wondering if I'm wrong.

:shake:

Where should I start?
  • Deion Branch on his best day? Superbowl MVP (and I've not a big Branch fan either).
  • The 2001 Patriots absolutely won with chemistry (plus outstanding coaching).
  • While Ninkovich may be an overachiever, and certainly is not a difference maker, he is still a good, capable player (and you need a bunch of guys like that to fill out a roster).
  • FWIW, the most underrated thing that wins championships, is the line play (both the o-line and d-line). People overemphasize the glamor positions. It's a team game.
 
Benign Despot said:
WRs are still the single most over valued position in football. Make a list of the 10 best WRs in football...tell me how many of them have won a ring.
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Not sure what it indicates but, when their teams won their respective SB's, it could be argued that Victor Cruz, Greg Jennings, Hines Ward, Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne were top 10 WR's.

In fact, outside of QB's being named SB MVP's, the list is populated with WR's (Cruz, Holmes, Ward, Branch). So, WR's clearly represent an important component to a teams chances of winning a SB.

While I agree that football is the ultimate team sport, it is also highly focused around the passing game at the moment. That means having gifted players who can catch passes is of paramount importance to winning. Only with a Tom Brady as QB could this be the case but ..... it's almost ridiculous that an average player such as Edelman is the best WR on this team.
 
While I see your points Pneumonic (I agree with them to Point), was it ridiculous for Troy Brown to be the best receiver on the 2001 team? (101 for 1199) Or D Branch in 2003 (57 for 803) Or David Givens in 2004? (56 for 874)

What did that record setting NE offense do in the Superbowl against the Giants? Or the record setting defense of the Broncos? Or even the "Greatest Show on Turf vs the Pats?

I's still like to see a stud outside down the field kind of threat but I think having a group of guys that Brady knows and trusts is better than a team that relies on one or two studs.

If this group of young kids can grow. If Gronk can stay healthy. If Edelman can be Brady's wing man again this year. If they draft a second tight end that can make plays. MOST IMPORTANTLY (and least likely): If the defense can play like they did in 2001, 2003 or 2004. Then maybe the Pats can get there and get Tommy, Bill and Mr. Kraft #4.
 
patsfanroach said:
While I see your points Pneumonic (I agree with them to Point), was it ridiculous for Troy Brown to be the best receiver on the 2001 team? (101 for 1199) Or D Branch in 2003 (57 for 803) Or David Givens in 2004? (56 for 874)

What did that record setting NE offense do in the Superbowl against the Giants? Or the record setting defense of the Broncos? Or even the "Greatest Show on Turf vs the Pats?
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Different times, far different game.

Besides, it's not like Seymour, McGinest, Law, Harrison, Bruschi and Vrabs are back and walking through that door.

patsfanroach said:
I's still like to see a stud outside down the field kind of threat but I think having a group of guys that Brady knows and trusts is better than a team that relies on one or two studs.

If this group of young kids can grow. If Gronk can stay healthy. If Edelman can be Brady's wing man again this year. If they draft a second tight end that can make plays. MOST IMPORTANTLY (and least likely): If the defense can play like they did in 2001, 2003 or 2004. Then maybe the Pats can get there and get Tommy, Bill and Mr. Kraft #4.
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Lot's of "if's". Here's another, "If" those "if's" don't pan out soon, we'll no longer have Brady bailing this team out.
 
I think an above average WR who has a great connection to a good QB is a far better combination than a great WR who has a poor connection to a good QB. To me, being on the same page, the connection, is more important than skill level for a WR once that skill level reaches at least a tad above average.

Branch, Givens, Brown, Faulk, and Gaffney all had really good rapport w/ Brady.
 
chevss454 said:
I think an above average WR who has a great connection to a good QB is a far better combination than a great WR who has a poor connection to a good QB. To me, being on the same page, the connection, is more important than skill level for a WR once that skill level reaches at least a tad above average.

Branch, Givens, Brown, Faulk, and Gaffney all had really good rapport w/ Brady.
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then you have moss and that was great/great
 
mikiemo83 said:
then you have moss and that was great/great
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Until he went full diva.

If we were debating the Pats trading for Larry Fitz or Megatron maybe I'd feel different (although I'd have reservations about the cap hit) because as great as they each are, neither is a diva. Desean Jackson has been.
 
Kenny Britt is visiting the Bills today.
 
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