Do you have $400 in cash or in the bank you could use in an emergency?

[O.Z.O.]

You bring up a good point - I don't know how much home insurance deductibles are in the US, but here they are generally $500-1000. So if we're talking about $400 being an issue for many people, that means they don't even have enough funds available to pay the deductible of a covered loss. I mean ... wow.

I feel for people who work their asses off and still struggle. Some of them make great decisions and make the most out of their situations.

But too many make excuses. They are unwilling to make sacrifices (ie. 2nd jobs, reduced spending on fun, etc.) to put money into things that matter. Then they end up living pay cheque to pay cheque because the majority of their disposable income pays for bloated car loans they didn't need, mortgages they can't afford, a brand new iPhone every year, vacations on credit cards, etc. Then they blame the government and economy. At least here.

It's sickening honestly and seriously dampens the broader appreciation for legitimate financial struggles (ie. single mom with no car living in low-income housing while working 2 jobs to put her kids through school).

Standard deductibles here are about $1000.

My wife and I live very quiet lives. We've talked about maybe doing a little more in the future (going out for a drink occasionally, stuff like that), but for the most part we live quiet, happy lives. Our idea of a big evening is kicking back on the sofa on a Friday or Saturday evening watching TV with the dogs.

My wife is a total coupon warrior, and we're constantly looking to save money wherever we can. I guess I just don't understand materialism. I have a nice house and reliable vehicles. My son is going to college (community college for now). Life is simple, and I feel sorry for people who feel like they have to overspend on "things" to compete with the friends and neighbors to be happy.

 

[mooseontheloose]

The availability of credit makes it a lot easier for irresponsible people to get into trouble. A few generations before mine, the only loans you had were for a house and maybe a car. The interest rates were high too so taking on the debt wasn't taken lightly.

If you didn't have money to buy something you desired, your only real options were to save money or use layaway.

Now it's insanely easy for pretty much anyone to get credit. Whether it's direct financing (ie. cars, furniture, electronics) at dealers, credit cards, or bank loans. Interest rates are kept super low these days, which also incents people to borrow more than they may under different conditions.

Now Johnny wants a new iPad? Ring it up on the Visa and he'll pay it back on payday. Oh but wait, an unexpected bill came up? No worries, he'll just carry the iPad balance for one month and get it paid off next month. Hmm, but wait, next month Johnny's best bud had a birthday overnighter in a nearby city and some of that went on credit. It's cool though, because Jonny will buckle down for the next 3 months and get it all paid off...

That's pretty much how shit starts and I personally know a number of people who have been or currently are stuck in that sort of cycle. Which eventually leads to multiple credit cards, balance transfers, personal loans/lines of credit, credit consolidation, etc. Through it all the notion of cutting back spending or increasing income (ie. second job) to correct the mess is just scoffed at while their credit and long-term financial well-being deteriorate further every day.

Ugh.

 

[PatsFanLisa]

Okay, so before anybody gives me any shit about what I'm about to say, hear me out.

This is a foreign concept to me. How anyone that works and doesn't save is just beyond me. I grew up with parents that believed if you didn't have the money to pay for it, you didn't buy it. That stuck with me my entire life. My parents struggled financially. My first year working at my profession I made more money than my dad did after working at his job for 30 years. Still, my mother managed to put aside the $12.50 a week to buy a $25 savings bond. My father took what little money was left over and learned about stocks and started to invest. By the time I went to college, which I had to pay for working until 2:00 a.m. four nights a week because there were no grants or loans, my folks had entered lower middle class status, not because of my dad's pay but because of their savings and investments.

So, having said all of that, most of my adult life, if I didn't have the money to pay for it, I didn't buy it. I put aside whatever I could out of my paycheck and learned how to invest. Nothing has changed in my decades of work. I fortunately have and always have had a very good-paying job, but I could have spent every dime of it spending frivolously. I have always treated myself to nice things, but not at the expense of knowing that if I didn't work or became ill or had to help my daughter's family that I couldn't do it.

So I don't care if you make $500 a week or $5000 a week, anybody can put aside $25 a week/$100 a month/$1200 a year. Anyone can take that money and put it into interest-bearing accounts or divident accounts to have your money earn money.

So shop at Walmart, stop buying things you don't need, go out of your way to find the bargains, stop buying fast food or prepared foods that are convenient but expensive (like McDonald's) and learn how to cook with real food, put your spare change in a jar, take $3.50 a day and put it aside, and you'll save money.

No, I just can't accept that working people don't have $400 set aside for an emergency. I don't know, maybe you'll think I'm a snob or better than everyone else. I don't. I grew up in very close to a poverty-level family. I learned the right traits from my parents and think I passed them on to my daughter.

Have at it. I can take the punches.

 

[O.Z.O.]

Okay, so before anybody gives me any shit about what I'm about to say, hear me out.

This is a foreign concept to me. How anyone that works and doesn't save is just beyond me. I grew up with parents that believed if you didn't have the money to pay for it, you didn't buy it. That stuck with me my entire life. My parents struggled financially. My first year working at my profession I made more money than my dad did after working at his job for 30 years. Still, my mother managed to put aside the $12.50 a week to buy a $25 savings bond. My father took what little money was left over and learned about stocks and started to invest. By the time I went to college, which I had to pay for working until 2:00 a.m. four nights a week because there were no grants or loans, my folks had entered lower middle class status, not because of my dad's pay but because of their savings and investments.

So, having said all of that, most of my adult life, if I didn't have the money to pay for it, I didn't buy it. I put aside whatever I could out of my paycheck and learned how to invest. Nothing has changed in my decades of work. I fortunately have and always have had a very good-paying job, but I could have spent every dime of it spending frivolously. I have always treated myself to nice things, but not at the expense of knowing that if I didn't work or became ill or had to help my daughter's family that I couldn't do it.

So I don't care if you make $500 a week or $5000 a week, anybody can put aside $25 a week/$100 a month/$1200 a year. Anyone can take that money and put it into interest-bearing accounts or divident accounts to have your money earn money.

So shop at Walmart, stop buying things you don't need, go out of your way to find the bargains, stop buying fast food or prepared foods that are convenient but expensive (like McDonald's) and learn how to cook with real food, put your spare change in a jar, take $3.50 a day and put it aside, and you'll save money.

No, I just can't accept that working people don't have $400 set aside for an emergency. I don't know, maybe you'll think I'm a snob or better than everyone else. I don't. I grew up in very close to a poverty-level family. I learned the right traits from my parents and think I passed them on to my daughter.

Have at it. I can take the punches.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QzE76nUSjL8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[subroc]

Nothing in that post worthy of takin' any shots at you.

 

[PatsFanLisa]

Just to follow up, I get that you have to take loans out for a car or for school or for large purchases. The problem is you don't have to get that car that is going to cost you $40,000 with a $500-600 a month payment for 60 or, heaven forbid, now you can get a 72-month loan. You may want it, but you'll live without it. Buy the Corolla, keep your payment at an affordable rate. Don't buy the top of the line stainless steel refrigerator with all kinds of electronics that can break down for $3500.

People just don't live within their means anymore. Credit card companies are killing kids in college offering them $10k credit amounts that they jump on because their parents don't have to know about it. They come out after four years owing credit debt, don't have a job yet, and their school loans are due starting six months after graduation. They're set up to fail, and schools aren't doing anything to orient kids to the pitfalls of all of it.

I don't know. It's sad.

 

[O.Z.O.]

Just to follow up, I get that you have to take loans out for a car or for school or for large purchases. The problem is you don't have to get that car that is going to cost you $40,000 with a $500-600 a month payment for 60 or, heaven forbid, now you can get a 72-month loan. You may want it, but you'll live without it. Buy the Corolla, keep your payment at an affordable rate. Don't buy the top of the line stainless steel refrigerator with all kinds of electronics that can break down for $3500.

People just don't live within their means anymore. Credit card companies are killing kids in college offering them $10k credit amounts that they jump on because their parents don't have to know about it. They come out after four years owing credit debt, don't have a job yet, and their school loans are due starting six months after graduation. They're set up to fail, and schools aren't doing anything to orient kids to the pitfalls of all of it.

I don't know. It's sad.

That's where parents really have to be involved and make sure their kids know what to watch out for and to have a plan. We did that with O.Z.O. Jr, and you can already see the results early on. Plus, he got to learn from our mistakes as well.

 

[Coltsfan2theend]

Right now, nope, at least not in my savings account. Might between my checking and savings at the moment. We are redoing our home loan to lower the interest rate and at the same time, borrowing some to pay off credit cards (home loan will be extended by three years and it will be a few dollars less). Then we will start being able to save more. I should be able to save 600 dollars or more a month while paying two student loan payments and putting 100 dollars into a college fund for my daughter and still have money left to eat on. My wife will be able to rebuild savings also (she had a lot but put down a nice amount on the house when she bought it, I think she put 30k down). We are also opening a home equity line of credit but don't plan on using it unless we absolutely have to. We should be in a much better financial place when all is said and done. Right now just waiting on the home appraisal to get in to the bank to get to the next step. I am interested to see what the house value is. We have upgraded things (flooring, kitchen appliances, doors) compared to what my wife bought it for.

 

[PatsFanLisa]

That's where parents really have to be involved and make sure their kids know what to watch out for and to have a plan. We did that with O.Z.O. Jr, and you can already see the results early on. Plus, he got to learn from our mistakes as well.

Hopefully, you'll be lucky. My daughter learned a hard lesson. When she graduated, she decided to go to grad school and didn't have a part-time job, had to move back home while in school. She finally had to fess up that she had gotten a credit card while in college after I told her to don't fall into the trap. She owed about $2500 and couldn't pay it. I paid it off for her and gave her a 3-month window to get a part-time job. After that, she had to pay me a monthly payment as though I were the credit company until it was paid off.

And she had to suffer my wrath. Worse than owing money she didn't have.

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

my hoe's give me my money when i click my fingers.

PIMP daddy!...

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

The whole usury system makes slaves out of everyone...the banks buy it from the central banks...the "Fed Reserve (Neither fed, nor has any reserves on hand)" creates it from nothing...and lends the made up funny money with interest.

BS

 

[BostonTim]

PIMP daddy!...

.. and his pimp-mobile. Every pimp-piggy needs one.

\\


Cheers

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

.. and his pimp-mobile. Every pimp-piggy needs one.

\\


Cheers

I love the air intake that equals the snout...

 

[spacecrime]

Wow. Does that mean 53% of the population is on some kind of welfare?

No, most are working but living from paycheck to paycheck with nothing left over to put into the bank for an emergency, or worse, not earning enough to pay weekly expenses and going a little deeper into credit card debt each week. Some make enough but simply spend more than they make, but many more, as Thoreau said, live lives of quiet desperation.

When an emergency hits, a medical need or car breakdown or whatever, it's just more credit card debt. They know the interest payments will kill them, but if your car won't pass inspection and you need to get to work, what are your options?

 

[mooseontheloose]

In Canada you can finance cars for 84 months now .......

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

 

[BostonTim]

:facepalm:

Cheers, BostonTim

 

[mooseontheloose]

No, most are working but living from paycheck to paycheck with nothing left over to put into the bank for an emergency, or worse, not earning enough to pay weekly expenses and going a little deeper into credit card debt each week. Some make enough but simply spend more than they make, but many more, as Thoreau said, live lives of quiet desperation.

When an emergency hits, a medical need or car breakdown or whatever, it's just more credit card debt. They know the interest payments will kill them, but if your car won't pass inspection and you need to get to work, what are your options?

Spend less or earn more.

I know it sounds simplistic. And I know it's not possible for everyone.

But most families, even the low income ones, could optimize their spending better. Some of these people work long hard hours to make things better, and deserve respect. Others work one regular FT low paying job and make no effort to find something better, improve their resume to change industries or are unwilling to work extra jobs.

I know people who just barely make enough to cover their bills and aren't able to repay their debt. They work one regular 40 per week job and claim no chance of advancement. I suggest a 2nd job and they think I'm an alien, and proceed to list all the things (ie. TV and such) they would miss out on.

Some people have it rougher than others. My family did when I was a kid and my parents sacrificed a lot to improve their financial standing any way they could. Some just aren't willing to do anything but make excuses.

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[spacecrime]

How anyone that works and doesn't save is just beyond me.

Granted, it's pretty hard to grasp living in affluent communities with a supportive family and network of friends. To understand the problem some others have, look at it from their vantage point in life, not yours. If you were to quit your job, pretend you didn't get help from loving parents, and are trying to raise a family while working at the Stop & Shop or Bed Bath & Beyond, the answer would be apparent pretty quickly.

We have jobs and make enough money to live, recreate and still save some. Not everyone falls into that category. The popular view is that they all are self-indulgent, and certainly some are, but you don't have to work in too many community programs to see a different side of the problem.

I fully agree about credit card companies targeting college kids, but not all the people in debt do it buying iPhones, and not all are lucky enough to have family with the wherewithal to help if they get into trouble, whether they buy iPhones or just tried to buy necesities and keep a car running so they could get to work.

 

[aloyouis]

...the only danger with this poll/thread is that it has the potential to turn political...

I promise that I won't.

Fortunately, the wife is in charge of the family finances. She's a fanatic about putting something into the savings account every week. We haven't paid a finance charge on a credit card in over 10 years and when we do finance something, we take advantage of the zero interest rate deals when available. If we do have to borrow with an interest rate, she always pays it off early.

If I was in charge of the finances, we'd probably be broke.

We have enough to survive for a while if needed.

This is us only I play the role of your wife. She knows I pay a lot of attention to it and she knows what to do if/when I croak before she does. If she forgets, it is all written and stored in the safety box.

It's different for sexy bitches like you and I. If things get really bad there's always stripping.

Yeah, I don't have that body anymore....

Can't you accomplish the same thing by just paying off the credit card every month but thus avoiding interest charges?

Yes you can. We do.

Yes, that's what we do. We always pay the balance in full every month and both our scores are over 800. The agencies just want to see that you're using them and not late with payments.

We also have a card which has a very good points program. We paid for a chunk of our recent Montana trip with the points we accumulated.

Little pitch here: We use the Same Club M/C. Awesome! 5% on Gas up to $600 back per year. 3% on travel and dining out with no max and 1% on everything else with no max. As you said, we use it for spring break family trip each year. In a weird way it is a stress reliever knowing that a chunk of the vaca is paid for without trying.

Okay, so before anybody gives me any shit about what I'm about to say, hear me out.

This is a foreign concept to me.

No, I just can't accept that working people don't have $400 set aside for an emergency. I don't know, maybe you'll think I'm a snob or better than everyone else. I don't. I grew up in very close to a poverty-level family. I learned the right traits from my parents and think I passed them on to my daughter.

Have at it. I can take the punches.

No punches. We grew up paycheck to paycheck. Mom was sure to let us know that it wasn't the way to live our lives. Two lessons came from that and I have never wavered. Do all you can to get to a good spot in life and work to stay there and even when you get to the good spot, don't forget to teach our own kids that they too need to work and save. Whatever the kids earn gets spilt into three pots. 50% to their IRA, 25% to their savings account and 25% to their checking account. They can spend only from the checking account. It is amazing how easily they adapted to the 25% they could spend.



UT - Great discussion starter!!!

 

[BostonTim]

Granted, it's pretty hard to grasp living in affluent communities with a supportive family and network of friends. To understand the problem some others have, look at it from their vantage point in life, not yours. If you were to quit your job, pretend you didn't get help from loving parents, and are trying to raise a family while working at the Stop & Shop or Bed Bath & Beyond, the answer would be apparent pretty quickly.

We have jobs and make enough money to live, recreate and still save some. Not everyone falls into that category. The popular view is that they all are self-indulgent, and certainly some are, but you don't have to work in too many community programs to see a different side of the problem.

I fully agree about credit card companies targeting college kids, but not all the people in debt do it buying iPhones, and not all are lucky enough to have family with the wherewithal to help if they get into trouble, whether they buy iPhones or just tried to buy necesities and keep a car running so they could get to work.

That's all well and good. But don't presume that I or others here grew up with June and Ward Cleaver. There was much that is wonderful about my childhood and my life and that's what I've talked about over the years here. But ...

Anyway, you are right about perspective. But the 47% who can't find $400 bucks are not anywhere near the disadvantaged victims that inhabit the fringes of society.

the fact is, there is a notion I believe that we are raising kids (and have been doing so for two, if not 3) generations who simply don't confront the reality of life. I think there is now a thriving and growing population of those who have always believed that someone will, in fact must, take care of them.

There are many who have grown up with all the traditional middle and upper class advantages who have no savings, no retirement plan (meaning they've not consciously planned for their own retirement) and who will have trouble finding that $400.

There's that fable of the ant and the grasshopper. We're growing grasshoppers.

Cheers, BostonTim.