Looking At The AFC - 2016

[yackittysacks]

Past performance is not indicative of future success. On that note, here is a fantastic post from a great poster on the Mane that perfectly sums up Elway's tenure and why he should be questioned going forward.

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27
The fact is, Elway's legacy here was always going to be directly tied to his acquisition of Manning, a gamble that one can easily argue only looks successful if he wins the Suoer Bowl. Had Manning retired with only the humiliating blowout SB game against the Seahawks to show for the decision and the embarrassing last second choke job against the Ravens as well, then John's record as GM looks decidedly different at this point, because how successful would his legacy be seen with these twin dissapointments alone?

One can ask if this weighed in his decision to bring Manning back and try to let the defense push him through to a title. One can also wonder if Kubiak didn't need an excuse to cast the decision as related to a perceived failure by Brock to justify the move based in this. It's hard to imagine any other reason for public comments that seemed otherwise unnecessary.

The real cost of not retaining Brock has less to do with what he appeared to be and a lot more to do with what he could become, which is why the 4 years of Manning University that we wasted on a guy who's gone now represents a sunk cost that could have been prevented for the additional features cost of signing one average player.

A long game approach would have recognized that 7 games for a guy who came off the bench cold and yet played well enough to lead dramatic comeback wins over playoff teams with the worst offensive line in the NFL might not be enough to determine if the plan you spent 4 years insisting was correct was worth divesting from. As it stands now, it appears they were caught by surprise and had no realistic backup plan to their presumption that he would stayed. It can take years to find a true franchise QB and there's no telling how long we will play with stopgaps in the meantime. Regardless of whether you think Oz has that in him or not is hardly the point since Elway thought so for 4 years and plainly said so all along when asked.

So ask yourself whether he was wrong with his original evaluation the and if you think so, then you have every right to question him now.

well shit. if a bronco fan says this, it must be true. eyes rolling. the #1 goal in the nfl is winning the SB. Not having a franchise QB. am i right dolphin fan? and Elway accomplished that in 4 seasons. brock got his panties all bunched up because the broncos benched him, in a must win game, which proved to be a good move, because they won the game and the #1 seed. the rest is history. elway has said that he does not want a player on this team, that doesn't want to be here. and brock did not want to be here. nuf said. i liked brock, but agree, it would be more damaging to pay high $$$$ to keep him. there are other QBs that want to play here. enter trevor siemian

 

[Mazz22]

well shit. if a bronco fan says this, it must be true. eyes rolling. the #1 goal in the nfl is winning the SB. Not having a franchise QB. am i right dolphin fan? and Elway accomplished that in 4 seasons. brock got his panties all bunched up because the broncos benched him, in a must win game, which proved to be a good move, because they won the game and the #1 seed. the rest is history. elway has said that he does not want a player on this team, that doesn't want to be here. and brock did not want to be here. nuf said. i liked brock, but agree, it would be more damaging to pay high $$$$ to keep him. there are other QBs that want to play here. enter trevor siemian

To win Super Bowls or just remain in contention, a team needs THE guy at QB. What happened in Denver this season was an anomaly. No one knows this better than Elway.

And you missed the entire point of the post from the Broncos fan. He was looking at the entire plan of Elway from the time he got Manninhgh up until last season. Let's face it the Kubiak offense was a nightmare for Manninhgh outside of his declining skills. Did Elway bring him back to justify his signing of him in the fist place? Of course he did. Elway's legacy was largely going to be tied to Manninhgh and winning the SB and of course even though they won, they won despite Manninhgh. And Elway absolutely wanted Brock. He was shocked that they did not retain him and was not just from the benching either. Elway saying he only wants players that want to be Broncos is just PR spin. The real fact is he miscalculated Brock and the market and has left Denver with a barrel of crap QBs to choose from.

 

[yackittysacks]

To win Super Bowls or just remain in contention, a team needs THE guy at QB. What happened in Denver this season was an anomaly. No one knows this better than Elway.

And you missed the entire point of the post from the Broncos fan. He was looking at the entire plan of Elway from the time he got Manninhgh up until last season. Let's face it the Kubiak offense was a nightmare for Manninhgh outside of his declining skills. Did Elway bring him back to justify his signing of him in the fist place? Of course he did. Elway's legacy was largely going to be tied to Manninhgh and winning the SB and of course even though they won, they won despite Manninhgh. And Elway absolutely wanted Brock. He was shocked that they did not retain him and was not just from the benching either. Elway saying he only wants players that want to be Broncos is just PR spin. The real fact is he miscalculated Brock and the market and has left Denver with a barrel of crap QBs to choose from.

you will fight to the death anyone how doesn't agree with you. it blows me away how you can tell me, or anyone else that they don't get it.i get what i get. and it may just be different then what you get.

 

[Mazz22]

you will fight to the death anyone how doesn't agree with you. it blows me away how you can tell me, or anyone else that they don't get it.i get what i get. and it may just be different then what you get.

I thought we were having a discussion? :shrug_n: Where did I say you don't get it? Of course I am going to fight my point because I feel it is correct and well supported. Teams need a quality QB to contend consistently. Seems pretty basic to me.

 

[spacecrime]

LOL at Mark Sanchez and Patrick Fitzryan as QB.

You did watch last season did you not?
....
I'm not sure where this comment comes from.

It came from my belief that Sanchez/Fitzpatrick aren't in the same conversation as Manning/Osweiler, but now I'm LOLing at your thinking that Sanchez/Fitzpatrick > Manning/Osweiler.

Hey, your team won a superbowl. Congrats and enjoy the feeling, but that was last year and this is this year. All teams are 0-0 and teams with Brady or Rogers as QB are going to play better this year than teams with Sanchez or Fitzpatrick playing under center.

Who was your QB after Elway won his two in a row? Did that guy bring the Doncs to the superbowl the next two years?

(You quite obviously don't get it.)

 

[O.Z.O.]

You did watch last season did you not? This forum was blowing up all year talking about how terrible the broncos QB play was. I think combined the 2 QB's were like a 72 QBR or some shit. So, I'm not sure where this comment comes from. Dirty or Fitz couldn't be any worse, and I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Broncos starting QB could easily be Trevor Siemian. The defense will be not much different. So, I would be careful overlooking the Donkeys. Either way. I'll enjoy the Super Bowl win until next year!

The historic problem that run into is this- teams that win Super Bowls with just defense (and it has happened), have a short shelf life. The OCs around the league will find a way to neutralize Denver's pass rush. You've done nothing to improve an anemic offense- in all seriousness, you'd be better off with another year of ManniHGH limping around back there than Butt Fumble.

Let's put it this way- if the Donkeys manage to be a real contender next year as opposed to the 8-8 3rd place team I'm envisioning, I'll give Kubes credit.

 

[patfan64]

well shit. if a bronco fan says this, it must be true. eyes rolling. the #1 goal in the nfl is winning the SB. Not having a franchise QB. am i right dolphin fan? and Elway accomplished that in 4 seasons. brock got his panties all bunched up because the broncos benched him, in a must win game, which proved to be a good move, because they won the game and the #1 seed. the rest is history. elway has said that he does not want a player on this team, that doesn't want to be here. and brock did not want to be here. nuf said. i liked brock, but agree, it would be more damaging to pay high $$$$ to keep him. there are other QBs that want to play here. enter trevor siemian

Totally not trying to be a d*ck here but are both of these statements 100% true? I have not seen published reports that Brock has said either.

 

[O.Z.O.]

Another thing he will be remember for is 2 Super Bowls in 4 years, including one win. I get what you're saying, I just don't buy it. He is sticking to his model, and Bronco fan will appreciate it. The one how stands the most to lose is Brock himself.

When you look at that compared to the great teams in league history, it's really not that impressive. The Steelers won 4 times in 6 years. Both the Cowboys and the Pats won 3 times in 4 years. The Dolphins in the early 70's went to 3 in a row and won 2. A bunch of teams have gone in back-to-back years and won at least one of those. Buffalo went to 4 straight. Dallas had a stretch where they went to 3 straight in the 70s.

Elway will be judged from this year forward.

 

[Mazz22]

When you look at that compared to the great teams in league history, it's really not that impressive. The Steelers won 4 times in 6 years. Both the Cowboys and the Pats won 3 times in 4 years. The Dolphins in the early 70's went to 3 in a row and won 2. A bunch of teams have gone in back-to-back years and won at least one of those. Buffalo went to 4 straight. Dallas had a stretch where they went to 3 straight in the 70s.

Elway will be judged from this year forward.

You don't even have to list those great runs in football history. What the Pats have done the past 5 years from '11-'15 is more impressive - two super bowl appearances (one title) and the one SB loss was not a blow out. 5 consecutive AFCCG appearances as opposed to two one and done's by Denver. Heck, Seattle's run the last four years has been better than Denver's.

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

Totally not trying to be a d*ck here but are both of these statements 100% true? I have not seen published reports that Brock has said either.

I don't blame him for going elsewhere for a lot more money...Elway did the wrong thing.

 

[patfan64]

I don't blame him for going elsewhere for a lot more money...Elway did the wrong thing.

I get that. But I have not seen any report that he was pissed about being benched or that he didn't want to be there.

 

[spacecrime]

I get that. But I have not seen any report that he was pissed about being benched or that he didn't want to be there.

THe report I read (which might or might not be accurate) is that the Texans offered him $2 mil more than the Broncos. SImple as that.

Broncos saved a ton of money by going with Sanchez and maybe Fitzpatrick, money that could be used to keep a few FAs from fleeing, but this is a QB-dominated league. I can only think of three teams that won a SB (ever) with a mediocre QB: Bears, Bucs, and Ravens.

That Bronco guy seems to think Denver would have won the SB last year with Sanchez under center, and that is plain nuts.

 

[king of kings]

I don't blame him for going elsewhere for a lot more money...Elway did the wrong thing.

He had to know once the playoffs began. He was going to get benched for Manning . I agree he took the biggest contract he could get.

 

[Mazz22]

THe report I read (which might or might not be accurate) is that the Texans offered him $2 mil more than the Broncos. SImple as that.

$7 mil more guaranteed too. A sucky division that he can win with 9/10 wins and a team that is ready to contend. A no brainer all the way around.

 

[HSanders]

OK so the Bills fired their DL coach Dunbar who has been with Rex forever. I wonder WTF is up with that? It seems so random. Maybe Rob wanted his own pick in there?

 

[TipRoast]

I can only think of three teams that won a SB (ever) with a mediocre QB: Bears, Bucs, and Ravens.

If you're going to put Brad Johnson and the Bucs on your list, you should also put Jeff Hostetler and the Giants there too. Johnson was a better QB than Hostetler.

And they were both better than Namath, who appeared in only three playoff games his entire career.

 

[chevss454]

Another loss for Denver.








Adam Schefter Verified account ‏<s>@</s>AdamSchefter

Pittsburgh signing former Broncos OT Ryan Harris to a two-year deal, per source.

 

[AkPatsFan]

THe report I read (which might or might not be accurate) is that the Texans offered him $2 mil more than the Broncos. SImple as that.

Broncos saved a ton of money by going with Sanchez and maybe Fitzpatrick, money that could be used to keep a few FAs from fleeing, but this is a QB-dominated league. I can only think of three teams that won a SB (ever) with a mediocre QB: Bears, Bucs, and Ravens.

That Bronco guy seems to think Denver would have won the SB last year with Sanchez under center, and that is plain nuts.

I don't see how the Broncos are going to get Fitzpatrick, he thinks he's worth $18m a year. The Jets are offering him $7m per so they're not even close to striking a deal and I don't see the Broncos shelling out that kind of cash for a slightly above average QB.

 

[chevss454]

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[chevss454]

Chris Trapasso ‏<s>@</s>ChrisTrapasso <small class="time"> 1m1 minute ago </small>

<s>#</s>Broncos talking with Johnny Manziel...