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Mac Jones Is Our QB1
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If mac played would it be to try and salvage some trade value? 
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If mac played would it be to try and salvage some trade value?
So, 2 Walmart gift cards???
Earlier in the season, you blamed Patricia for Mac stinking out the joint this year, (even though Patricia was gone). Now I guess you're blaming BB.
Personally, I do blame BB for not having viable backups on the o-line. I also didn't like him signing JuJu to the contract he did, when the guy was coming off an injury. I also think he should have gotten a veteran backup QB, in case Mac played as bad this year as he did last year, (of course I didn't foresee that he'd suck even worse this year). I also think he was too patient with Mac Jones, and should have gone to to Zappe sooner. At the end of the day though, the biggest problem was our lousy starting QB, Mac Jones. While Zappe isn't great by any means (at least not as of yet), he does meet the very low bar of playing better than Mac.
aloyouis
at least generally aware
BB has had total control of all things patriots for two decades. The fact that the offense completely fell apart after Josh left and was replaced by Bill's handpick successor speaks volumes. Trying to blame all of this on a 23-year-old kid, especially after he showed you, he was more than capable of that in 2021, is weird.
Apparently, he showed you that. For me, the "regression" started at the end of his first season. What it showed me was that defenses had figured him out, and it was to be determined if he could step it up and cope with what defenses were doing. The answer thus far, is no.
Agree on that end of first season regression
we’ll never know, but had Josh not left, Mac may have taken a different trajectory. Or maybe not
Roberto71
Well-known member
It was a classic rookie year. Rookies always do relatively well coming into the NFL. The coaches have the training wheels on and run simple plays, which is OK as defenses know nothing about rookies, so it usually works, for a time...... But there is nothing learns faster in life than an NFL coach so eventually defenses get up to speed and that's why you see rookie QBs really struggle in year 2 as the defenses have really studied him and know him and develop the schemes to attack them.
Well might as well revive the Medicare Mac QB 1 thread because thats what's going to happen. Krafty wants his binky out there and on Sept 8th 2024 at 1pm, Mental Mac will be out there having his hand held by Papa Josh.
6-11 here we come baby! That LT is going make all the difference in the world I tell ya.
6-11 here we come baby! That LT is going make all the difference in the world I tell ya.
spacecrime
Well-known member
Definitely. There are indeed fans of the NFL not a specific team. I like a few NFL teams but my favorite (home) team has been the Pats since 1960 (Im an old fart). Before that it was the Giants.
I suppose homer is all in the definition. I guess for some it goes homer-fan-hater.
For me being a homer means I'm so FANatic about my home team I look at the future on the bright side. It takes a N'Keal Harry or not playing Malcom Butler to piss me off. When someone who thinks I'm too optimistic, I get called a homer. It's always a person whose style of posting is rancorous. Meh.
spacecrime
Well-known member
1. It's beyond a stretch to attribute a change in fortunes of to only one of many possibilities.
2. Every season is different.
3. Luck (any given Sunday) is huge. Luck should average out over a season, but it doesn't always. We were unbelievably favored by luck in 2001, and it IS possible to toss a coin 17 times and have 13 tosses come up tails.
spacecrime
Well-known member
Remember Patrick Ramsey? IIRC, he was the high potential QB the Redskins picked in our trade #32 for #21 picks when we got Daniel Graham? Spurrier totally destroyed the guy in less than one season.
Mazz22
A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies.
I think we all know that offense was the biggest issue this season. The defense played at a level plenty good enough for this team to contend in the postseason. That falls on Bill O’Brien, and what happened on that side of the ball especially with Mac Jones.
aloyouis
at least generally aware
Both Carr and Ramsey are good comparisons. I just hope Bill didn’t completely kill Mac.
Who knows.
I feel blaming Bill for Mac's inability to deal with adversity is a bit of a cop out.
Mac deserves a lot of the blame for folding like a cheap plastic chair the second things got tough.
A less talented player than him showed way more resolve despite being very limited. Why didn't Bill "ruin" him?
Look at Justin Fields—dude had zero help for years yet he still played his ass off. Can't say the same about Mac.
aloyouis
at least generally aware
I never said Mac wasn't somewhat to blame.
I do think Mac soldiered on in the face of adversity for a long time before he cracked. In fact, I think he made it further than most very young QB's would have made it given the same ridiculous disadvantages. in retrospect, Mac beating out Cam was the worst thing that could have happened for his career. Mac would have been far better off watching Cam get killed for a couple of seasons.
One only has to honestly consider what year 2 would have been had the Patriots provided even an average OL and a real OC. It is not hard to see Mac progressing rather than regressing. The GOAT chose not to provide his 2nd year QB with either of those always required (for QB and team success) parts of his team.
Maybe there is a 23 year old QB that could have handled the beatings both on the field, in the stands and in the press better, but I doubt there are many. Maybe Justin Fields does better running for his life. He and Mac have different positive characteristics.
Mac Jones was on a path to becoming a good or very good NFL QB. No QB does that alone. Brady sure as heck didn't. For all intents and purposes it was demanded of him that he accomplish it without an OL or a real OC. It was too much for him to handle. For who would it not be as a 23 year old 2nd year QB------> in Boston?
Yes, an argument can be made that a different QB could have survived. Who?
Bill failed this kid when he needed support by providing little. Bill was focused on the defense. It is what he loves. We have a great defense now. And no QB.
3 Point Stan
POW! Right in the kissah.
It's difficult to look back at the Mac Jones era and feel that Bill (or the Patriots as an organization) ruined Mac Jones. You could easily ask, "Well, what about Matt Cassel?" (who the Patriots turned into a multi-millionaire). By contrast, I do feel Washington ruined RGIII's career, as did Indy with Andrew Luck, so it does happen.
Mac Jones has a lot of characteristics that I loathe in virtually all highly-touted QB's coming out of college. So many of these guys have been handed the keys to the proverbial Ferrari as children. They've been propped up in their lives for at least the last decade, have faced very little TRUE adversity and when they face it at the pro-level, they are deer in the headlights.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the fathe." - Mike Tyson
These guys get punched in the face and not even their entourage can pick them up off the ground again. A guy like Tom Brady came in knowing he was going to have to take a few punches along the way.
Think back to the mid-90's. How many "can't miss" QB's can you think of coming out of the draft? I am not talking about guys who ended up having great careers, I'm talking about the guys who we had no doubts on coming out of the draft. To me, there are three:
Peyton Manning
Andrew Luck
Joe Burrow
Who else did you feel that way about, if any? You could make a case for Michael Vick, Stafford, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, etc. The most recent guy I felt that way about was Trevor Lawrence but he's looking more Alex Smith/Carson Palmer-ish each year. Most pressure-packed position in all of sports. Not everybody's built for the challenge. In fact, most aren't.
Mac Jones has a lot of characteristics that I loathe in virtually all highly-touted QB's coming out of college. So many of these guys have been handed the keys to the proverbial Ferrari as children. They've been propped up in their lives for at least the last decade, have faced very little TRUE adversity and when they face it at the pro-level, they are deer in the headlights.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the fathe." - Mike Tyson
These guys get punched in the face and not even their entourage can pick them up off the ground again. A guy like Tom Brady came in knowing he was going to have to take a few punches along the way.
Think back to the mid-90's. How many "can't miss" QB's can you think of coming out of the draft? I am not talking about guys who ended up having great careers, I'm talking about the guys who we had no doubts on coming out of the draft. To me, there are three:
Peyton Manning
Andrew Luck
Joe Burrow
Who else did you feel that way about, if any? You could make a case for Michael Vick, Stafford, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, etc. The most recent guy I felt that way about was Trevor Lawrence but he's looking more Alex Smith/Carson Palmer-ish each year. Most pressure-packed position in all of sports. Not everybody's built for the challenge. In fact, most aren't.
Mazz22
A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies.
I think it was a combo. For sure Bill ruined him IMO but I also think Jones probably does not have the goods either. I am not sure how you can look back on the 2022 season and not come away with Bill severely hurting Jones. He was coming off a very solid rookie year and Bill decides to change the offensive system and hire a DC in Patricia to coach offense. Made no sense especially when the season started going south and Bill did nothing. Then this year, Bill spent the majority of his team building capital on defense leaving the offense in shambles on the Oline and bereft of any real talent at the skill positions despite having cap money to spend.
I brought this up on another thread but you can't dismiss Cassell learning from Brady for 3 years or the fact that he literally inherited a stacked team in 2008 facing one of the easiest schedules on top. He also had a legit OC in McDaniels. I could go on but really IMO it is apples to oranges in comparison ...
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Asking for a friend. If mac doesn't have the goods, just what was it that Bill ruined? (My friend says he's confused.)
3 Point Stan
POW! Right in the kissah.
Perhaps Bill cut the tags of Mac Jones, thus voiding his warranty?