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I only saw the replay but it didn't look like that bad of punch that knocks him out. I was shocked but maybe I missed something a different angle shows
 
imapig said:
Could be acting...:coffee:
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Academy award level too

I disagree with 15 games. I could see 10, at most but the ice level angle didn't look that bad. I don't see how a KO happened. Glass jaw? No wonder he wouldn't fight after his cheap shot.
I hope Thornton fights this and uses the return of the coward as evidence it was a BS call.


Also seems only people under 35 want fighting gone. The same group the everyone gets a trophy time started with. Sad.
 
I think 15 is fine, but I'm also of the opinion that all suspensions should be much longer than they are currently. Torres was given 25 to send some sort of message, yet since then many hits/plays that have been significantly worse get less than 10.

Also, there is no rule that Orpik must fight Thornton. I'm not excusing Orpik, but cheap shots can and should also be taken care of by the league. What if a guy like Ovechkin or Stamkos hits someone (clean or slightly unclean), are they expected to drop the gloves with an enforcer? Why would Orpik, who plays significant ice time for the Pens, take himself off the ice for 5 minutes to fight a 4th liner? He might be a punk for refuses to fight, but that doesn't mean Thornton can just come force the fight on him with a blindside attack.

I've always said I have no problem with fighting that is contextual and in the moment. If two dudes want to square off and it happens as a product of the play then all is good. I personally hate staged fighting, and part of that is the 'player X hit player Y so I'm sending player Z out there to fight." That is exactly how the Buffalo-Toronto episode occurred earlier this season, and it happens far too often with CLEAN hits.

If a cheap hit happens and nothing comes of it immediately afterwards, then it is up to the league to send a proper message (not 1-3 games) and not an enforcer chasing around 1st-3rd liners demanding the score settled.

JMO of course.
 
Just a few weeks back Boychuk crushed a player in similar fashion to how Erikson got hit. Except the player had the puck and it was a direct shoulder to chest and no head contact.

Immediately he was challenged by and he accepted the fight from the opposition. He owned it. That is the difference here. Orpik wants to play with the edge, yet cower. His hit was blind side shoulder to head, causing a concussion and the player to still be on IR. Orpik is a puss.

And Boychuk plays the same minutes and role as Orpik, yet he stepped up.
 
I understand that. Like I said, he is a punk if he lands a cheap shot and doesn't step up, BUT that doesn't mean guys like Thornton can ambush and force a fight. Cheap shots should be punished and deterred through league suspensions (lengthy, 2-3 times current norm IMO) which should send a message to all involved. If guys are confident the league will deal with these guys, they will be less likely to engage in dangerous plays like Thornton did.

I'm not arguing Orpik isn't a punk and that he shouldn't have owned up for his hit. But, I'm also saying that he CAN decline the fight and it's up to the league to make sure he is dealt with. Thornton's actions have no place in the game and do more harm than good.
 
mooseontheloose said:
I understand that. Like I said, he is a punk if he lands a cheap shot and doesn't step up, BUT that doesn't mean guys like Thornton can ambush and force a fight. Cheap shots should be punished and deterred through league suspensions (lengthy, 2-3 times current norm IMO) which should send a message to all involved. If guys are confident the league will deal with these guys, they will be less likely to engage in dangerous plays like Thornton did.

I'm not arguing Orpik isn't a punk and that he shouldn't have owned up for his hit. But, I'm also saying that he CAN decline the fight and it's up to the league to make sure he is dealt with. Thornton's actions have no place in the game and do more harm than good.
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I disagree.

The leagues been around quite a while and most true fans don't seem to have or have had an issue with what's been in the game from Day one. Sure, there's a recent swell of fans who think fighting is barbaric and has no place. But it sure seems the lack of respect has escalated steadily year after year since the true problem was introduced IMO- the instigator penalty.

Fighting has always enabled the players to self regulate the nasty plays.

We've been down this road. Lost one of our best Offensive players forever. And what was the penalty the league imposed on Cooke? How'd that work out for us?

And Eriksons already had 1 and is on IR now for this one. What if he's unable to come back? And what penalty or suspension would equalize that for us?

None.

Wait til Orpik comes back.

Soft dump into his corner every time we cross the red line if I was running things.
 
Ya, and what does him fighting accomplish? Unless he gets hurt in the fight, its about nothing but principle.

Moreover, Cooke's run ins with the league have actually caused him to reform his game - a better result.

I have no problem with fighting, in certain circumstances. Not barbaric but just silly sometimes. What Thornton did was over the line and he deserves to sit out. If Orpik doesn't want to fight then it is on the league to discipline him. That was my point.
 
mooseontheloose said:
Ya, and what does him fighting accomplish? Unless he gets hurt in the fight, its about nothing but principle.

Moreover, Cooke's run ins with the league have actually caused him to reform his game - a better result.

I have no problem with fighting, in certain circumstances. Not barbaric but just silly sometimes. What Thornton did was over the line and he deserves to sit out. If Orpik doesn't want to fight then it is on the league to discipline him. That was my point.
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We didn't see the level of cheap shots to star players we see nowadays so fighting must've accomplished something.

Anybody F'd with Gretzky and McSorley took care of business. Didn't seem to have the wreckless violent career ending cheap shots of today.
 
I actually don't have a problem with fighting in response to a cheap shot. What I'm sick to death of is fighting after a clean hit on a star player, or staged fighting. Unfortunately, it's difficult to remove one without impacting the other.
 
If the Penguins weren't a punch of euro-bitch-douche-whining twats then none of this happens. Cheap shot artists who won't square up when challenged.

The entire team has not one ball to share among them. I wonder if they all synchronize their periods each month.
 
What a joke. It was a clean hit. Orpik didn't leave his feet or target the head. If roles were reversed you'd all be saying Eriksson needs to keep his head up. How many concussions did Eric Lindros have? How many of you think he should have kept his head up? Regardless, why does Orpik have to fight Thornton? Hilariously just a few days before Thornton was talking about how "if you hit guys while they're down or you try to fight guys that aren't in your class what goes around comes around." And then he goes and does both of those things. If Orpik wouldn't fight your enforcer why couldn't someone else challenge him? A few years ago Milan Lucic had some hits the Pens weren't happy about. Georges Laraque challenged him twice and Lucic refused because his nose was broken. So Jarkko Ruutu challenged him and Lucic not surprisingly beat a man he's bigger than. Why didn't Marchand challenge Orpik then? Well because he's a huge pussy who plays dirty all the time and only gets in 1 fight a year.

And claiming Orpik is faking his concussion is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The Pens have 5 of their top 6 defensemen out. They've called up 3 guys from the minors to plug the holes. Why the hell would Orpik sit out in that situation just to make sure some 4th liner gets a longer suspension? (BTW, one of those AHL callupsIis Philip Samuelsson, son of Ulf. So congrats on helping him make it to the NHL)

So I guess Neal should appeal his suspension for kneeing Marchand in the head, right? I mean it was incredibly dirty and malicious but after all, Marchand boarded him last year and he's a coward who rarely fights, so Neal was justified I guess. Besides, Marchand is a notorious diver so he was probably embellishing.

And speaking of Matt Cooke, he got some long suspensions. He accepted them and did his time. And the Pens sat him down and told him if he didn't change the way he played he'd be out of a job, and Cooke responded with the cleanest year of his career. Are the Bruins doing that with Thornton? No, they're helping him explore his appeal options.
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Benign Despot said:
If the Penguins weren't a punch of euro-bitch-douche-whining twats then none of this happens. Cheap shot artists who won't square up when challenged.

The entire team has not one ball to share among them. I wonder if they all synchronize their periods each month.
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The Pens have 3 Europeans. The Bruins have at least that many. The Bruins have 20 fights this year, the Pens have 16.
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mikiemo83 said:
Academy award level too

I disagree with 15 games. I could see 10, at most but the ice level angle didn't look that bad. I don't see how a KO happened. Glass jaw? No wonder he wouldn't fight after his cheap shot.
I hope Thornton fights this and uses the return of the coward as evidence it was a BS call.


Also seems only people under 35 want fighting gone. The same group the everyone gets a trophy time started with. Sad.
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Yep and its killing sports...
 
SteelerFan87 said:
What a joke. It was a clean hit. Orpik didn't leave his feet or target the head. If roles were reversed you'd all be saying Eriksson needs to keep his head up. How many concussions did Eric Lindros have? How many of you think he should have kept his head up? Regardless, why does Orpik have to fight Thornton? Hilariously just a few days before Thornton was talking about how "if you hit guys while they're down or you try to fight guys that aren't in your class what goes around comes around." And then he goes and does both of those things. If Orpik wouldn't fight your enforcer why couldn't someone else challenge him? A few years ago Milan Lucic had some hits the Pens weren't happy about. Georges Laraque challenged him twice and Lucic refused because his nose was broken. So Jarkko Ruutu challenged him and Lucic not surprisingly beat a man he's bigger than. Why didn't Marchand challenge Orpik then? Well because he's a huge pussy who plays dirty all the time and only gets in 1 fight a year.

And claiming Orpik is faking his concussion is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The Pens have 5 of their top 6 defensemen out. They've called up 3 guys from the minors to plug the holes. Why the hell would Orpik sit out in that situation just to make sure some 4th liner gets a longer suspension? (BTW, one of those AHL callupsIis Philip Samuelsson, son of Ulf. So congrats on helping him make it to the NHL)

So I guess Neal should appeal his suspension for kneeing Marchand in the head, right? I mean it was incredibly dirty and malicious but after all, Marchand boarded him last year and he's a coward who rarely fights, so Neal was justified I guess. Besides, Marchand is a notorious diver so he was probably embellishing.

And speaking of Matt Cooke, he got some long suspensions. He accepted them and did his time. And the Pens sat him down and told him if he didn't change the way he played he'd be out of a job, and Cooke responded with the cleanest year of his career. Are the Bruins doing that with Thornton? No, they're helping him explore his appeal options.
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It was a detestable hit. Cowardice to the nth degree. Shoulder directly to the head of a player not looking. If they(the NHL) aren't looking to remove that type of hit from the game then I don't know what they're trying to accomplish.

As I stated previously, Boychuk had a similar style play a couple weeks back. Absolutely zero head contact, but he crushed the guy inside his own blue line. Boychuk is by no means a fighter, but devastating blows like that sometimes trigger an emotional response from the team hit. He owned his hit, stepped up to the challenge, and any animosity dissipated immediately.

Orpiks cowering just prolonged and extended the emotional payback time. What? Did he think he was going to get away with it?

He's safe. For now. But one guy that'll have a belly full of really soft poo should we meet in the playoffs again- a style of play we're built 100% for- is Orpik.

Dump, chase, crush, turnover, and score.

I can't wait.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
It was a detestable hit. Cowardice to the nth degree. Shoulder directly to the head of a player not looking. If they(the NHL) aren't looking to remove that type of hit from the game then I don't know what they're trying to accomplish.

As I stated previously, Boychuk had a similar style play a couple weeks back. Absolutely zero head contact, but he crushed the guy inside his own blue line. Boychuk is by no means a fighter, but devastating blows like that sometimes trigger an emotional response from the team hit. He owned his hit, stepped up to the challenge, and any animosity dissipated immediately.

Orpiks cowering just prolonged and extended the emotional payback time. What? Did he think he was going to get away with it?

He's safe. For now. But one guy that'll have a belly full of really soft poo should we meet in the playoffs again- a style of play we're built 100% for- is Orpik.

Dump, chase, crush, turnover, and score.

I can't wait.
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Nonsense. Orpik glides in, doesn't launch himself, keeps his elbows down, and doesn't target the head. From the one angle that is showed in all the youtube videos it's not clear if there's head contact. But if there is, it's because Eriksson had his head down. As Don Cherry said afterwards, the blame should go to the guy that gave him that pass that put him in that position to get destroyed.

I love Eriksson. He's one of my favorite players in the NHL. But he has to know where he is on the ice there and that putting your head down there is dangerous. What's Orpik supposed to do? Say "oh I see you're not paying attention. No worries friend, I'll let you go"? Would Scott Stevens have done that? Hitting is a big part of Orpik's game, and he has a reputation around the league as one of the best and cleanest hitters in the game. Like I said, he keeps his feet on the ice, glides into the hit, and keeps his elbows down. What more is he supposed to do? No penalty. Nothing from the league. Nobody outside of Boston is saying it was dirty.

If you want to see targeting of the head wait a couple seconds and see 6'9" Chara leave his feet to hit 6'1" Pascal Dupuis. Fortunately he missed and took out Marchand instead.

Now Neal, what he did was incredibly dirty. I would be extremely embarrassed by it if it wasn't a POS like Marchand. But Marchand boarded him last year and barely ever fights, so maybe that was Neal doing the ol' Shawn Thornton move? Not that it's right. I mean, that was a blatant knee to the head. Neal is too good of a player to be so stupid sometimes. Hopefully he gets control of himself.

But back to Orpik, why does he have to fight Thornton? Why not someone else? Why does a guy who barely ever fights have to go with a heavyweight? When Lucic refused Laraque because his nose was broken, Laraque didn't go jump him from behind. Ruutu challenged Lucic and Milan was ok with fighting a smaller guy as opposed to an enforcer. Why not the same for Orpik? Why couldn't someone else challenge him?

And if you're so butthurt that sending a guy off on a stretcher with a concussion wasn't enough, and you want to keep going after him for a clean hit that's borderline at worst, please just forget about the NHL and go watch a non-contact league.
 
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