Preseason Game 1, 2016, Pats vs Saints

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chevss454 said:
The heat/humidity had to affect the players. 100 degrees on the field at kickoff was brutal. My daughter and her new husband went to the game and left mid 3rd qtr bc of the heat. Both showered as soon as they got home. They said it was unbearable.

Jimmy G performed better than I expected in all phases except for his pocket presence. He'll get better at sensing pressure and getting rid of the ball or running with more experience. I thought Brissett's pocket presence was outstanding although he was going against 3rd/4th line players.

Chris Long allowed too many completions to the flats. He was slow to recognize the RB moving out there and was in an 'oh shit' trailing position. Teaching point for him.

STs was way below avg for a Patriots team. I saw BB coaching up the STs coach twice on the sideline.
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I actually wasn’t impressed with Jimmy besides that one great throw he made to Mitchell down the left sideline. He doesn’t have great poise and he just looks nervous and not in control. I know it’s still early in his career, but I just don’t see this guy every being a good starter.

Brissett on the other hand, as you said, had great poise and pocket presence. He didn’t look nervous at all and seemed to be in command of the huddle. His weakness looks like forcing the ball/ maybe not going through all of his progressions. Hopefully that can be coached and he will continue to develop. He has a great arm and nice accuracy in tight coverage.

The only thing Long looked good at was rushing the passer. He needs to be a situational pass rushing DE for us and that’s it.

Loved Trey Flowers. If he continues to play at this level he needs to start.
 
Frog said:
I actually wasn’t impressed with Jimmy besides that one great throw he made to Mitchell down the left sideline. He doesn’t have great poise and he just looks nervous and not in control. I know it’s still early in his career, but I just don’t see this guy every being a good starter.

Brissett on the other hand, as you said, had great poise and pocket presence. He didn’t look nervous at all and seemed to be in command of the huddle. His weakness looks like forcing the ball/ maybe not going through all of his progressions. Hopefully that can be coached and he will continue to develop. He has a great arm and nice accuracy in tight coverage.

The only thing Long looked good at was rushing the passer. He needs to be a situational pass rushing DE for us and that’s it.

Loved Trey Flowers. If he continues to play at this level he needs to start.
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Jimmy's lack of poise is most likely the reason the Pats drafted Brissett.
 
Mazz22 said:
Jimmy's lack of poise is most likely the reason the Pats drafted Brissett.
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The offensive line was doing a mighty fine impersonation of last years squad early on in the game... Hard to demonstrate poise with guys getting right in your face when your guys are o'laying the pass rushers... Couple throws I would have preferred to not see JG throw but that'll be coaching points for Bill. Overall I was not entirely displeased. Brissett better learn that there's no need for a 60mph ball to your guy 20 feet away though.
 
patsRmyboys said:
The offensive line was doing a mighty fine impersonation of last years squad early on in the game... Hard to demonstrate poise with guys getting right in your face when your guys are o'laying the pass rushers... Couple throws I would have preferred to not see JG throw but that'll be coaching points for Bill. Overall I was not entirely displeased. Brissett better learn that there's no need for a 60mph ball to your guy 20 feet away though.
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Agreed. Jimmy isn't Brady, but I was not disappointed in his performance, given that our best skill players were not playing at all and the game plan was casual, at best.

The best skill guy we had out there was Marty B. and Jimmy hit him 3 times in about 10 minutes. Nothing wrong there.

The guy I want to talk about is Joe Thuney.

I didn't watch him on every snap he played (yet), but I saw enough to be impressed. His mobility was excellent, I didn't notice any mental mistakes and his playing strength appeared better than I expected. He was getting good movement on everybody he got his hat on.

I saw one play where he clearly didn't get his job done and that was because he got bumped off his pull by a DL and the RB got stuffed. I watched his reaction after the play and it was as if he was already figuring out how to make sure that didn't happen again. That was not a mental mistake, per se, but an experience thing and a good play by the DL. That was the only play I watched where he wasn't completely in control of his guy.

One thing I've noticed about him is that he can cut off a quick move to the gap on either side with seeming ease, which is great, but in addition to that he anticipates the counter move that often follows and is ready and waiting for it and snuffs it out. He does not let himself get caught off-balance and out of position. His footwork is way ahead of most rookies.

It's probably very early to be passing judgement on any of these rookies, but I've seen enough good things out of him that I believe Thuney will absolutely win the starting LG job. There is no reason to sit him. He's ready right now.

I can't remember a rookie OL coming into Foxboro and appearing as advanced and comfortable as Joe Thuney does.

John Hannah, Logan Mankins, Bruce Armstrong, Matt Light.....take your pick. Not one of them played that well right out of the gate. I thought Thuney was outstanding. He's got a chance to be a special player.
 
patsRmyboys said:
The offensive line was doing a mighty fine impersonation of last years squad early on in the game... Hard to demonstrate poise with guys getting right in your face when your guys are o'laying the pass rushers...
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Hard to blame anyone trying to pass with the scrubs playing WR. I think they showed great poise given that their receivers got little separation. I think that if Edelman, Amendola and Hogan replaced DeAndre Carter, Chris Harper, and Devon Lucien they might have completed a few more passes.

In particular I liked how Brissett played with him being a rookie in his first game who got very few TC snaps. I'm looking forward to seeing these guys play in two weeks.

---------- Post added at 09:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 PM ----------
hawg73 said:
agreed. Jimmy isn't brady, but i was not disappointed in his performance, given that our best skill players were not playing at all and the game plan was casual, at best.

The best skill guy we had out there was marty b. And jimmy hit him 3 times in about 10 minutes. Nothing wrong there.

The guy i want to talk about is joe thuney.

I didn't watch him on every snap he played (yet), but i saw enough to be impressed. His mobility was excellent, i didn't notice any mental mistakes and his playing strength appeared better than i expected. He was getting good movement on everybody he got his hat on.

I saw one play where he clearly didn't get his job done and that was because he got bumped off his pull by a dl and the rb got stuffed. I watched his reaction after the play and it was as if he was already figuring out how to make sure that didn't happen again. That was not a mental mistake, per se, but an experience thing and a good play by the dl. That was the only play i watched where he wasn't completely in control of his guy.

One thing i've noticed about him is that he can cut off a quick move to the gap on either side with seeming ease, which is great, but in addition to that he anticipates the counter move that often follows and is ready and waiting for it and snuffs it out. He does not let himself get caught off-balance and out of position. His footwork is way ahead of most rookies.

It's probably very early to be passing judgement on any of these rookies, but i've seen enough good things out of him that i believe thuney will absolutely win the starting lg job. There is no reason to sit him. He's ready right now.

I can't remember a rookie ol coming into foxboro and appearing as advanced and comfortable as joe thuney does.

John hannah, logan mankins, bruce armstrong, matt light.....take your pick. Not one of them played that well right out of the gate. I thought thuney was outstanding. He's got a chance to be a special player.
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+1
 
Hawg73 said:
Agreed. Jimmy isn't Brady, but I was not disappointed in his performance, given that our best skill players were not playing at all and the game plan was casual, at best.

The best skill guy we had out there was Marty B. and Jimmy hit him 3 times in about 10 minutes. Nothing wrong there.

The guy I want to talk about is Joe Thuney.

I didn't watch him on every snap he played (yet), but I saw enough to be impressed. His mobility was excellent, I didn't notice any mental mistakes and his playing strength appeared better than I expected. He was getting good movement on everybody he got his hat on.

I saw one play where he clearly didn't get his job done and that was because he got bumped off his pull by a DL and the RB got stuffed. I watched his reaction after the play and it was as if he was already figuring out how to make sure that didn't happen again. That was not a mental mistake, per se, but an experience thing and a good play by the DL. That was the only play I watched where he wasn't completely in control of his guy.

One thing I've noticed about him is that he can cut off a quick move to the gap on either side with seeming ease, which is great, but in addition to that he anticipates the counter move that often follows and is ready and waiting for it and snuffs it out. He does not let himself get caught off-balance and out of position. His footwork is way ahead of most rookies.

It's probably very early to be passing judgement on any of these rookies, but I've seen enough good things out of him that I believe Thuney will absolutely win the starting LG job. There is no reason to sit him. He's ready right now.

I can't remember a rookie OL coming into Foxboro and appearing as advanced and comfortable as Joe Thuney does.

John Hannah, Logan Mankins, Bruce Armstrong, Matt Light.....take your pick. Not one of them played that well right out of the gate. I thought Thuney was outstanding. He's got a chance to be a special player.
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I appreciate your analysis. I feel the left side of the line is finished. It is thee right side that is the concern. Kline tries but he just doesn't have the talent. Cooper might be great... if he ever plays. Karras reminds me of Dobler tough and full of rawhide gristle. But i think the answer will be Shaq Mason at RG. Tre Jackson has the build to be a superb power RG, but can't seem to ever get healthy.

Unlike other years, this Oline contigent has plenty of raw talent.

Right Tackle is still Volmer's job, if he ever gets off PUPP. Everyone picks on Marcus Cannon but the Coaches seem to like him. Is he fully healthy even now? Meanwhile even Cam Fleming opened a hole that Tyler Gaffney ambled through, and all the other backs combined could have used too. Karras opened the other side.

Kudos too to the kick-out block that Shaq administered on Gaffney's long screen pass. He sprung him loose for the near TD run. The only thing missing is drive blocking power it seems.

Obviously I 'd like to see Vollmer working out at least.

I'm thinking the First pick next year should be a big LOT, who can play and star at ROT when not needed.
 
In addition to Joe Thuney there were a number of interesting performances from rookies and new guys vs. the Saints and I'd like to make note of Kamu Grugier-Hill or "KG" as the inept announcers tagged him for short.

I've noticed that Bill enjoys putting certain rookies into the "torture chamber" to test their mettle in preseason games. A few years back, he played Matthew Slater on offense/defense and special teams and Slater was totally spent after that game, but, I believe, earned himself a spot on the team that night.

KG played teams and on defense at LB for most (if not all) of the 2nd half, but perhaps more notably had him calling the plays on defense. That is notable because KG played at Eastern Illiniois in front of wives and girlfriends and for him to get the honor (and challenge) of calling the D was, no doubt, an indication that Bill really likes this kid and wants to see what he's got.

His performance was up and down, I'd say, and seemed indicative that he was a split-second late to react. Nothing unusual about that given the sheer amount of processing he was trying to do, but it was clear that Kamu is a very fluid athlete with fine speed. One little thing I noticed was that on a completed pass away from his zone, he came over to clean up on the tackle and as he arrived he noticed the reciever was down and rather than jump on the pile in an attempt to get noticed he jumped over the guy which showed me he wasn't planning on drawing a flag for a late hit. That showed maturity, but he was in position to hit him if necessary.

On another, he was gunner on the punt team and made short work of the double team assigned to him and while he got juked out by the return guy, Kamu had no help on the play as he was way ahead of the rest of the coverage.

It's going to be interesting to see how Bill uses him in the remaining preseason games to see how he is progressing, but I was very surprised that they put him in the torture chamber in game one.
 
AZPats said:
I appreciate your analysis. I feel the left side of the line is finished. It is thee right side that is the concern. Kline tries but he just doesn't have the talent. Cooper might be great... if he ever plays. Karras reminds me of Dobler tough and full of rawhide gristle. But i think the answer will be Shaq Mason at RG. Tre Jackson has the build to be a superb power RG, but can't seem to ever get healthy.

Unlike other years, this Oline contigent has plenty of raw talent.

Right Tackle is still Volmer's job, if he ever gets off PUPP. Everyone picks on Marcus Cannon but the Coaches seem to like him. Is he fully healthy even now? Meanwhile even Cam Fleming opened a hole that Tyler Gaffney ambled through, and all the other backs combined could have used too. Karras opened the other side.

Kudos too to the kick-out block that Shaq administered on Gaffney's long screen pass. He sprung him loose for the near TD run. The only thing missing is drive blocking power it seems.

Obviously I 'd like to see Vollmer working out at least.

I'm thinking the First pick next year should be a big LOT, who can play and star at ROT when not needed.
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Good stuff, thanks.

One thing I noticed was that either Mason or Cannon let a guy go in unblocked right between them for an early sack. This looked like the same thing we saw at least once vs. Denver last year and, no doubt, will earn somebody a tongue-lashing from Dante. I couldn't tell who blew their assignment, but suspect it was probably Mason. I would certainly hope it wasn't Cannon who has been around long enough to know what he is supposed to be doing, but regardless we need to get that straightened out now.

You can live with a guy getting beat, but not those mental errors getting your QB crushed. That first quarter was awful with Solder struggling vs. BC 2nd year FA Kasim Edebali.

I did not think Solder looked very good and he gave up several pressures in addition to that sack. Man, he looks skinny for an OT. I'll bet he has lost weight, but it didn't seem to help him get to the edge much.
 
<s>@</s>BudLight Play of the Week: Trey Flowers' 15-yard sack & 17-yard fumble return TD:

CpwCaQaWAAAIzEO.jpg
 
Here's a play where David Andrews got turned around and allowed Lauranaitis to get to JG. JG escaped only to get sacked by Edebali...his 2nd sack.

The Saints first team D only played 20 snaps and pretty much had their way with our OL.

Screen%20Shot%202016-08-13%20at%2010.24.03%20AM.png
 
AllWorldTE said:
I like his feet and his arm and he looks like a solid ball handler. His timing has a long way to go though. He strikes me as a guy who's gotten by on his cannon and timing hasn't been an issue but on this level it's everything. He's got that Bledsoe wait, wait, fire thing going on. Step up kid and get rid of it on time.
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Didn't catch but a series of this but it was Brissett and what Zo was saying as well.

Coming from as much a football educated guy as you only confirms my concerns of him being the backup weeks 1-4.

And this isn't even vanilla defense.

It's lime jello.

Just add hot water.
 
Having had a chance to re-watch the game and concentrating on the Offensive line, I am much more sanguine, provided that Vollmer returns healthy and able. The interior has a surfeit of young talent that merely needs integration and Dante will demand and get it. Vollmer is a quality ROT and an acceptable LOT if needed. But He has not been seen at all; and there is a deafening silence as to how he is coming along. Still the near universal opinion is that he will be there in September.

The receivers wil lbe better than ever. The Pats can now field 2 legitimate Split Ends, 2 legitimate flankers ,and up to 3 slot receivers. And still put a talent on the PS. The TEs are 3 deep with Gronk, Bennett and Derby. The lightest at 255#s, and a good blocker.

If there is a weakness its at RB, altho Blunt, Garvey and even Bolden provide the size, and White and Lewis the pass catching and with Lewis the shiftyness. They even have a good FB.

Does anyone even care about Polos numbers 11-18 168 yards, 62%, 15.27 per completion and 9.33 per attempt, no TDs but no INTs either. Projected over 4 periods it would be 22-36 for 336 and 62%. Those are winning numbers,
 
The Pats have benefited from a positive turnover margin throughout much of BB's tenure and that's led to a lot of wins. But +4 for the night against the Saints isn't something we should bank on for wins in the regular season. NO writers are saying NO won the game except for those 4 turnovers, 2 for TDs. Glass half full. Glass half empty. For both teams.
I don't want to have to rely of turnovers for wins this year...we have too much talent for turnovers to be the difference.

The New England Patriots won the turnover battle against the New Orleans Saints with an impressive +4 on the evening. The Patriots grabbed two interceptions, while conceding none, and recovered two fumbles. The Saints put two other fumbles on the ground, but recovered them.
The Patriots defense converted two of those turnovers into immediate points on a pick-six by linebacker Jamie Collins and a fumble return by edge defender Trey Flowers. New England can’t expect 14 “bonus points,” as head coach Bill Belichick called them, every week, but the offense needed all the help it could get.

The Patriots are going to need to win the turnover battles over the first four weeks if they expect to win any of these games. The Patriots have a 52.8% winning rate when they lose the turnover battle, but they are the only team to win more than a third of their games over the past decade.
I consider that to be the Tom Brady factor and would expect Garoppolo’s odds of winning to be more in line with the league average of 21.1%.
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http://www.patspulpit.com/2016/8/13...t-s-all-they-need-to-win-with-jimmy-garoppolo
 
spacecrime said:
"The Patriots have a 52.8% winning rate when they lose the turnover battle, but they are the only team to win more than a third of their games over the past decade.
I consider that to be the Tom Brady factor and would expect Garoppolo’s odds of winning to be more in line with the league average of 21.1%."

What the heck does this mean?
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It means TB is an elite QB that can overcome that disparity and adversity and snatch victory out of the jaws of defeat.

He's not as sure of Garop.

Yet.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
It means TB is an elite QB that can overcome that disparity and adversity and snatch victory out of the jaws of defeat.

He's not as sure of Garop.

Yet.
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That's all he meant? Well, call him Captain Obvious, then. You can add all the QBs in the NFL to the list of QBs less able than TB to overcome adversity.

I kinda meant the numbers themselves:
1. They won 52% of their games while losing the turnover battle.
2. They won a third of their games while losing the turnover battle.
 
spacecrime said:
That's all he meant? Well, call him Captain Obvious, then. You can add all the QBs in the NFL to the list of QBs less able than TB to overcome adversity.

I kinda meant the numbers themselves:
1. They won 52% of their games while losing the turnover battle.
2. They won a third of their games while losing the turnover battle.
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Brady: MORE than a third. 52>33.333

Everyone else: equal to or <33.333

Cheers, BostonTim
 
Dwight Schrute said:
It means TB is an elite QB that can overcome that disparity and adversity and snatch victory out of the jaws of defeat.

He's not as sure of Garop.

Yet.
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That may be Brady's best stat. The number one factor in wins and losses according to Belichick himself is the turnover battle. The fact that Brady overcomes that at a 52 percent rate while the rest of the league is at 21 is absolutely stunning. Not that I expect anything less from the GOAT but still an amazing stat.
 
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