Stupid presser questions

[mikiemo83]

To be honest, and I've never played O line so I cant be sure, doesn't it seem to make the most sense of all positional groups to rotate in?

They do it in every skill group. They do it in every defensive position. The fatties on the other side are swapped continuously.

Why have the O line, possibly the least or second to least physically capable group, play an entire game? Add to it they're young. They all need reps. It is a built in safeguard for having the next man up being ready.

Makes sense to me.

yes and no, you stay fresh but the OLine knows where they are going and it is less tiring than defense reacting.

The reason you DO NOT rotate is because it makes it tough to build continuity within the group, to learn the person beside you to the point words are not required.

 

[mikiemo83]

IIRC that was a big issue with the OL early last year too rotating to find the 5 best guys/making sure guys are ready.
I think it could be one way BB copes with the ludicrous practice rules. I also think it's not something you want to do without a QB like TB who is all knowing and all seeing and gets the ball out fast.

it was when Stork was inserted into the line ,after the 4th game I think, and the interior became Wendell, stork, Connolly that the unit became cohesive. Part of the genius was both Connolly and Wendell played center and could help stork with calls early.

plus both the Guards were physical after the whistle and took no poop, it changed the line play.

My only reasoning for it is in game coaching, by taking out the two guards you can sit with them in game and say if "X" happens you do "Y" and it keeps Tom clean.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

yes and no, you stay fresh but the OLine knows where they are going and it is less tiring than defense reacting.

The reason you DO NOT rotate is because it makes it tough to build continuity within the group, to learn the person beside you to the point words are not required.

Again, is it that much of a difference in taking all 70 plays vs 55 and letting reserves grab 15 valuable reps?

 

[mikiemo83]

Again, is it that much of a difference in taking all 70 plays vs 55 and letting reserves grab 15 valuable reps?

I believe yes, those 15 plays are now at a lower level and the way the Pats have been doing it is they rotate in for 15 but of those 70 plays now only 45 are with the best 5 because it is not a uniformed rotate 3 in now for 15 plays.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I believe yes, those 15 plays are now at a lower level and the way the Pats have been doing it is they rotate in for 15 but of those 70 plays now only 45 are with the best 5 because it is not a uniformed rotate 3 in now for 15 plays.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I believe yes, those 15 plays are now at a lower level and the way the Pats have been doing it is they rotate in for 15 but of those 70 plays now only 45 are with the best 5 because it is not a uniformed rotate 3 in now for 15 plays.

Holy crap!

Even a third read it sounds like a KoK math word problem.

 

[mikiemo83]

you want continuity. order of replacement matters not.
you run 75 plays

replace Mason with Kline, you obviously leave 4 of the starters in there so 15 plays of Kline is 60 of the starting 5

but then Kline is in 7 plays then Cannon replaces Volmer for 15 plays meaning that now 23 plays are without the starting 5 meaning 52 out of 75 and the players are constantly adjusting to the new players coming in and out instead of just playing a unit, they hesitate a split second. That split second could be all a Harrison needs to get by Solder and Blindside Tom.

I know what they are doing and I know they did the same thing last year and do use it as a way to keep everyone familiar with everyone but in my perfect world the starting 5 got game one and do not change until the parade is over.

 

[Beaglebay]

Why can't the offense have different packages like the defense does?

 

[mikiemo83]

Holy crap!

Even a third read it sounds like a KoK math word problem.

it needs my hand movements and some drawings on a napkin in a bar to make sense.

 

[mikiemo83]

Why can't the offense have different packages like the defense does?

sticking with pass blocking, the oline is passing off players on a stunt and picking up different players based on the defense. if I let go of the player a split second before the player is ready to take him that could get ugly.

it is like a WR and QB, the internal clock makes a huge difference.

 

[deec77]

sticking with pass blocking, the oline is passing off players on a stunt and picking up different players based on the defense. if I let go of the player a split second before the player is ready to take him that could get ugly.

it is like a WR and QB, the internal clock makes a huge difference.

Wouldn't all these moving parts in and out affect the hurry up too?

~Dee~

 

[Hawg73]

It's unusual because unlike other positions OL requires multiple members of the same unit to be in sync with each other and trust each other. You don't build that chemistry/trust by constantly switching guys in and out.

It's not much of a surprise that the staff is trying to sort out the interior OL issues, but in the long run they will absolutely settle on a starting five. They might rotate Mason or whoever it was at FB in certain jumbo packages but that's about it.

Solder - Wendell - Stork - Mason - Vollmer is IMO what we will see in the playoffs baring injuries.

I agree with your larger point, so that's pretty much a first, but I'm wondering why you left Tre Jackson out of your 5.

It seems to me that he is definitely a lock at RG. He's done quite well so far and I'm becoming more impressed with him with every game. If they are going to sub Wendell in at guard I would think it would be for Mason, but I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of time before Shaq is as good as Jackson or better.

Mason is a bit more error-prone, but there are plays when he pulls and gets into somebody and just knocks the shit out of them. The guy is a powerhouse.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

you want continuity. order of replacement matters not.
you run 75 plays

replace Mason with Kline, you obviously leave 4 of the starters in there so 15 plays of Kline is 60 of the starting 5

but then Kline is in 7 plays then Cannon replaces Volmer for 15 plays meaning that now 23 plays are without the starting 5 meaning 52 out of 75 and the players are constantly adjusting to the new players coming in and out instead of just playing a unit, they hesitate a split second. That split second could be all a Harrison needs to get by Solder and Blindside Tom.

I know what they are doing and I know they did the same thing last year and do use it as a way to keep everyone familiar with everyone but in my perfect world the starting 5 got game one and do not change until the parade is over.

This is where I disagree.

The likelihood of ANY player remaining healthy for every offensive snap is low, let alone 5.

You HAVE to have everyone capable of contributing.

 

[Beaglebay]

sticking with pass blocking, the oline is passing off players on a stunt and picking up different players based on the defense. if I let go of the player a split second before the player is ready to take him that could get ugly.

it is like a WR and QB, the internal clock makes a huge difference.

Practice, preparation, and repetition with different personnel can't hurt. BB may have hit on a new wrinkle entirely by chance and player injury here.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I agree with your larger point, so that's pretty much a first, but I'm wondering why you left Tre Jackson out of your 5.

It seems to me that he is definitely a lock at RG. He's done quite well so far and I'm becoming more impressed with him with every game. If they are going to sub Wendell in at guard I would think it would be for Mason, but I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of time before Shaq is as good as Jackson or better.

Mason is a bit more error-prone, but there are plays when he pulls and gets into somebody and just knocks the shit out of them. The guy is a powerhouse.

Masons problem is the pass game. GT had about 14 passing attempts last year.
He'll come around.

 

[mikiemo83]

Practice, preparation, and repetition with different personnel can't hurt. BB may have hit on a new wrinkle entirely by chance and player injury here.

The new wrinkle will be when Williams, the 300 lbs TE, is reporting in at tackle and the Ref has to announce #85 is ineligible

.

 

[TipRoast]

you want continuity. order of replacement matters not.
you run 75 plays

replace Mason with Kline, you obviously leave 4 of the starters in there so 15 plays of Kline is 60 of the starting 5

but then Kline is in 7 plays then Cannon replaces Volmer for 15 plays meaning that now 23 plays are without the starting 5 meaning 52 out of 75 and the players are constantly adjusting to the new players coming in and out instead of just playing a unit, they hesitate a split second. That split second could be all a Harrison needs to get by Solder and Blindside Tom.

I know what they are doing and I know they did the same thing last year and do use it as a way to keep everyone familiar with everyone but in my perfect world the starting 5 got game one and do not change until the parade is over.

So you're saying five guys can build chemistry with each other, but six guys or seven guys cannot.

What makes the number five so special?

And what about the tight ends - sometimes they have to block. Is their chemistry with the other members of the offensive line not important?

 

[sg14]

Holy crap!

Even a third read it sounds like a KoK math word problem.

I enjoy the KoK posts.. they are like a luminosity test.

 

[mikiemo83]

So you're saying five guys can build chemistry with each other, but six guys or seven guys cannot.

What makes the number five so special?

And what about the tight ends - sometimes they have to block. Is their chemistry with the other members of the offensive line not important?

yes I am.

I m saying that 5 players in the same position along the offensive line will work, as a unit, better than a rotating group.

Look at the rotation used the 1st 4 games of last season, it was not until they put Stork in the center position with Wendell and Connolly at guards did the OLine begin to solidify and it was a work in progress during the season.

and TE are not linemen, very few can take on a DE without help, they may chip him, holding the block for a count before releasing him but they are there with help behind them.


I guess with your expanding line I could say what about WR's or FB's too? they are called to block correct?

but that is just deflecting from the fact an offensive line is a unit, 5 of them work together.

going old bastard lineman on you, having played mostly a little of both Center and TE, knowing who was beside me and his strengths and weakness, what he could do or couldn't do, was helpful. If I hesitate because of unfamiliarity the QB is going to be on his ass.

you can disagree but the better OLines in history were 5 guys, start to finish.

 

[O_P_T]

IIRC that was a big issue with the OL early last year too rotating to find the 5 best guys/making sure guys are ready.
I think it could be one way BB copes with the ludicrous practice rules. I also think it's not something you want to do without a QB like TB who is all knowing and all seeing and gets the ball out fast.

Exactly.

No more two a days, much less opportunity to sort this out in camp.

Toss in how little some of these guys were available in camp due to injuries and I think that BB uses the September games, in a sense, as an extension to training camp.