The 2021 Draft- We Need This One

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chevss454 said:
This is pretty good. 10 players discussed for each round of the draft.
Here's the direct link

View: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kT7hVTj6ink5qMK-PSlyTAORHwye45cgqUcEwxFlMTA/edit#gid=0



View: https://twitter.com/Ryan_Spags/status/1385201450389676033
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That was certainly comprehensive. It was loaded with opinions, plenty of them sensible not that all of them struck me as accurate. For instance, they mention Jamie Newman as a potential 3rd round pick for us and pointed out that he had an "inconsistent return" at the Senior Bowl. On the contrary, Newman was consistently awful during the actual game. Embarassingly so. I would not be happy to hear that pick coming in given recent draft history here. I hate to judge a kid on less than a full game, but----- that's how overmatched he appeared.

I like their idea of moving on from Jakob Johnson, which is one of the only honest comments I've ever read about the try-hard German who has improved tremendously from completely useless all the way up to JAG. So Ben Mason would be a cheaper option? Sign me up. That the Johnson experiment has continued for two long years makes zero sense to me. He's hurting the offense because he's not close to being a consistent blocker despite blowing a few guys up along the way. He's got no ball skills, either. Danke schoen und auf weidersehen, Herr Johnson!
 
rivshark86 said:
There is a legit bad track record with Alabama QBs in the nfl. At least compared to other positions they send.

Now I don’t watch a ton of college ball, but it seems like the last year or two their philosophy for winning has changed a bit. They look to get out and put up some points now. Not as conservative as they used to be. I think that this means jones could be different. Initially I loved the guy. Just watch him practice. He gets the ball out quick. There’s no wind up.
I still hate that cigar pic though. He just looked out of shape and like he didn’t care about taking care of himself. I’ve been slowly getting over it.

The 49ers are probably thinking a rookie QB will give them the cap space to keep the core of their team which is incredible. Why not trade the house if you have a QB you love?
You just gotta be darn sure your right.
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Alabama is also known for having a stacked roster on both sides of the ball. But when one of their QB's comes in at the pro and doesn't have the same amount of offensive weapons, they struggle mightily imo.
 
Hawg73 said:
That was certainly comprehensive. It was loaded with opinions, plenty of them sensible not that all of them struck me as accurate. For instance, they mention Jamie Newman as a potential 3rd round pick for us and pointed out that he had an "inconsistent return" at the Senior Bowl. On the contrary, Newman was consistently awful during the actual game. Embarassingly so. I would not be happy to hear that pick coming in given recent draft history here. I hate to judge a kid on less than a full game, but----- that's how overmatched he appeared.

I like their idea of moving on from Jakob Johnson, which is one of the only honest comments I've ever read about the try-hard German who has improved tremendously from completely useless all the way up to JAG. So Ben Mason would be a cheaper option? Sign me up. That the Johnson experiment has continued for two long years makes zero sense to me. He's hurting the offense because he's not close to being a consistent blocker despite blowing a few guys up along the way. He's got no ball skills, either. Danke schoen und auf weidersehen, Herr Johnson!
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Kellen Mond looked much better than Newman did. I would take a chance on Mond before Newman imo.
 
chevss454 said:
cqpvefew18zghpzkkdxm.jpg
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I don't see 20# of muscle being packed on those tiny bones
 
Hawg73 said:
Brandon Weeden, Jameis Winston, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, EJ Manuel, Blake Bortles, Paxton Lynch, Mitch Trubisky, Josh Rosen, Drew Lock, Dwayne Haskins,

All wowed the scouts with the laser cannons hanging from their right shoulders. All of them convinced professional organizations to invest in them to be the face of their franchise.

I watched a cool sports/science show where they measured the velocity of Brandon Weeden's throws and they were supposedly the fastest ever measured. A photon laser cannon. He became the oldest(28), 1st round draft pick ever. You heard stories about how Josh Rosen could throw a 50-yard rocket from his knees when he was just a wee lad in braces and threw the prettiest spirals ever seen. Nobody seemed to notice that he was a douchebag that his teammates didn't like, or made poor decisions because they were way too dazzled by the gun.

Jameis Winston had all the tools -- a prototype overall one glamour boy who threw 30 picks in one season. Mitch was a one-season wonder boy at North Carolina who was a "great athlete" who could "create outside the pocket" and "throw on the run" and the Bears, quite famously, traded up to take him with the overall two well ahead of Pat Mahomes and Deshaun Watson. That one decision might have cost them a ring or two, because they'd have been pretty damn good with Patrick or Deshaun. Blaine Gabbert's laser cannon now securely holds a clipboard but most of the rest are either gone or on thin ice.

It's like blind love. You see somebody, go head over heels and dream of a magical future together and then, unfortunately, one day you wake up and realize that it was never real. The things that matter weren't the things you looked at.

Five top guys are being dissected right now and most of the focus on this draft is on which lucky team will land which guy. The whole thing reminds me of the old board game called "Mystery Date" where young girls played it to find out if their big date was going to end up being a "dream" or a "dud".



View: https://youtu.be/uTc6NhIHEI8
Click to expand...


ROFL
 
Hawg73 said:
I watched a feature called QB21 with Kirk Herbstreit on Mac Jones last night and it's similar (not as good, tho) to Gruden's QB camp. I've given up any hope of landing Mac, because I feel like the secret is out and remain unconcerned with the herd's criticism over his game. I maintain that he is the closest thing to Brady I've seen in the last 20 years and would be THE perfect fit in Foxboro.

I've already stated my case on him several times, so will attempt to not beat it to death, but the show (on ESPN) dug into his back story and featured a film session that illustrated who the guy is. He understood every aspect of what was happening in each case presented and broke it down with ease. He's a natural.

Lately, I keep seeing references to big armed, perfectly put-together guys with all the right numbers who were Draft Day Darlings but flamed out in the NFL because they couldn't figure out how to avoid trouble long enough to hold that job and gain vital experience. They forced their teams to move on from them. This is where Jones stands out, I believe. He can figure out the vectors/patterns and deliver the ball to one of his guys and not the guys in the other jerseys. Folks forget that Tom Brady wasn't Tom Brady in the early years here, but managed games beautifully almost from the jump and moved the sticks behind a scheme that limited his exposure to areas where he needed time to work things out. The TDs followed and over time he improved his arm strength and accuracy, along with everything else and became the GOAT. I will also dare to chum the local waters by suggesting that Mac throws the ball quite a bit better than Tom did coming into the NFL at all 3 levels. OK, I'll call it a tie in the short zones, just to be kind. Jones has all the arm you need to win games in the NFL and I chuckle when I hear the oft-repeated but false claims that he's "average" or a "product of the system".

Herbie played some clips of Brady for Jones to comment on and it wasn't a coincidence. Mac acknowledged that he didn't feel comfortable comparing himself to the best player of all time, but he didn't stutter when he said it. He knew all about Brady's back story and his skill set, i.e., commanding the pocket and it was pretty plain to see that there are some definite parallels to their games and both he and Herbie knew it. He wasn't fazed by competition at Alabama, by Nick Saban screaming at him and I don't think he'd be overwhelmed by getting a job here. And all that entails. If it happens, and I doubt it will, then I'll be one hundred per cent sure it was the right move.

It's a pity that it won't happen, but I'm keeping a candle lit that we get lucky and other teams balk at the chance to take him because he doesn't fit enough of the accepted archetypes of modern draft "science". Teams cannot measure what goes on between a QBs ears well enough to give it the weight that it deserves, so will settle instead for what a tape measure and stopwatch can tell them. If we can get to him then we will take him.
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Yeah, Mac Jones has been my guy for a long time. Better than Tua and a great fit for the Pats. On your rec, I watched the Mac Jones QB21 this am (early on the SEC/ESPN channel) and thought he was bright, attentive and animated. Loved that as a young kid he made a list of QB goals he wanted to accomplish. He's held on to the list since childhood; they showed the list with misspellings and all. He had a plan and followed it through from a young age. With Herbstreit, Mac was relaxed and exuded a quiet confidence to me in his ability to think. He knew what he was talking about and showed a terrific grasp of defensive cues, reads and adjustments pre-snap and on the fly. I saw a kid with good leadership skills filled with enthusiasm. Who cares if he's not a dual threat? Give me a guy who can make pre-snap reads, adjust and stand in the pocket to complete the plan and I'm happy.

I also watched the QB21 Kyle Trask show. In contrast to Jones, Trask's show was by zoom which didn't seem comfortable for him. He seemed stiff, guarded and aloof throughout which was a big contrast to the relaxed and talkative Jones. Trask attended PManning's throwing camp so Herbstreit brought in Peyton Manning by zoom. Manning talked way too much and basically bullshitted his discussion on Trask's ability and, instead, gave a 5-6 min. lecture on what Trask was facing in the NFL. It made me think PManning isn't all that confident that Trask is up to the mental challenge. Then there was a lot time showing the glory days at Florida with Tim Tebow which adding nothing to Trask's interview - filler time. There was some talk about why Trask had a period of 6 years between HS and college without starting a football game - buried on the depth chart, injuries and more injuries kept him on the bench. But 6 years? In the end, I thought less of Trask at the end of the show despite his throwing ability. I was left thinking Trask, far more than Jones, benefited from the weapons he had available in Pitts and Toney who made Trask look better than he actually is. Trask's mental ability didn't come through loud and clear as it did for the more polished Jones.
 
Hawg73 said:
Brandon Weeden, Jameis Winston, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, EJ Manuel, Blake Bortles, Paxton Lynch, Mitch Trubisky, Josh Rosen, Drew Lock, Dwayne Haskins,

All wowed the scouts with the laser cannons hanging from their right shoulders. All of them convinced professional organizations to invest in them to be the face of their franchise.

I watched a cool sports/science show where they measured the velocity of Brandon Weeden's throws and they were supposedly the fastest ever measured. A photon laser cannon. He became the oldest(28), 1st round draft pick ever. You heard stories about how Josh Rosen could throw a 50-yard rocket from his knees when he was just a wee lad in braces and threw the prettiest spirals ever seen. Nobody seemed to notice that he was a douchebag that his teammates didn't like, or made poor decisions because they were way too dazzled by the gun.

Jameis Winston had all the tools -- a prototype overall one glamour boy who threw 30 picks in one season. Mitch was a one-season wonder boy at North Carolina who was a "great athlete" who could "create outside the pocket" and "throw on the run" and the Bears, quite famously, traded up to take him with the overall two well ahead of Pat Mahomes and Deshaun Watson. That one decision might have cost them a ring or two, because they'd have been pretty damn good with Patrick or Deshaun. Blaine Gabbert's laser cannon now securely holds a clipboard but most of the rest are either gone or on thin ice.

It's like blind love. You see somebody, go head over heels and dream of a magical future together and then, unfortunately, one day you wake up and realize that it was never real. The things that matter weren't the things you looked at.

Five top guys are being dissected right now and most of the focus on this draft is on which lucky team will land which guy. The whole thing reminds me of the old board game called "Mystery Date" where young girls played it to find out if their big date was going to end up being a "dream" or a "dud".



View: https://youtu.be/uTc6NhIHEI8
Click to expand...

Terrific post. Thanks.

Cheers
 
TipRoast said:
Let's stay with the 2004 NFL year. During the season, Peyton Manning set the single season passing record for TDs with 49.

But in the playoffs, he couldn't get on the field against the Patriots, because his team couldn't stop the run. The Patriots had a time of possession advantage of 37:43 to 22:17.

I doubt that Belichick has forgotten about that game and the importance of having a dominant offensive line, and also the importance of having a defensive line that won't let itself get dominated.

Franchise QBs are nice, but having one doesn't guarantee championships. Please point out the Super Bowls won by a QB that threw 43+ TDs in a season (i.e. the top 10 seasons for passing TDs by a QB).
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Sure having a franchise QB does not guarantee a championship. Dan Marino proved that and Trent Dilfer did too.
But if your team is going to compete for championships year after year then you need a very good QB. You don't need an All Pro QB, but a franchise QB to me is one who can lead the team year after year to the playoffs.
 
chevss454 said:
Yeah, Mac Jones has been my guy for a long time. Better than Tua and a great fit for the Pats. On your rec, I watched the Mac Jones QB21 this am (early on the SEC/ESPN channel) and thought he was bright, attentive and animated. Loved that as a young kid he made a list of QB goals he wanted to accomplish. He's held on to the list since childhood; they showed the list with misspellings and all. He had a plan and followed it through from a young age. With Herbstreit, Mac was relaxed and exuded a quiet confidence to me in his ability to think. He knew what he was talking about and showed a terrific grasp of defensive cues, reads and adjustments pre-snap and on the fly. I saw a kid with good leadership skills filled with enthusiasm. Who cares if he's not a dual threat? Give me a guy who can make pre-snap reads, adjust and stand in the pocket to complete the plan and I'm happy.

I also watched the QB21 Kyle Trask show. In contrast to Jones, Trask's show was by zoom which didn't seem comfortable for him. He seemed stiff, guarded and aloof throughout which was a big contrast to the relaxed and talkative Jones. Trask attended PManning's throwing camp so Herbstreit brought in Peyton Manning by zoom. Manning talked way too much and basically bullshitted his discussion on Trask's ability and, instead, gave a 5-6 min. lecture on what Trask was facing in the NFL. It made me think PManning isn't all that confident that Trask is up to the mental challenge. Then there was a lot time showing the glory days at Florida with Tim Tebow which adding nothing to Trask's interview - filler time. There was some talk about why Trask had a period of 6 years between HS and college without starting a football game - buried on the depth chart, injuries and more injuries kept him on the bench. But 6 years? In the end, I thought less of Trask at the end of the show despite his throwing ability. I was left thinking Trask, far more than Jones, benefited from the weapons he had available in Pitts and Toney who made Trask look better than he actually is. Trask's mental ability didn't come through loud and clear as it did for the more polished Jones.
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Well stated post. I'm glad that you watched it. I'm going to be very interested in how Jones does in the NFL because I see something pretty unusual in him and I'm very curious to see if the Brady-type things I see in him translates to (early) NFL success. I spent some time the other day going through the last 10 drafts looking for patterns in QB prospects and the prime one is big-armed, tall, athletic dudes that couldn't handle the jump from College. The secondary one is just how few guys like Mac have come along during that span. Teddy Bridgewater is one of the few guys that won with their brain first and, to my eyes, he didn't have nearly the arm that Jones does.

I watched Trask a little this past fall and wasn't impressed. Same deal with his pro day. I think you are exactly right about him. He is always a little off the mark and his excellent WRs bailed him out. I think his arm is OK, but his timing is off. Interesting about Peyton's comments. He isn't going to lie, but sometimes it's what you don't say as much as what you do.
 
Hawg73 said:
Well stated post. I'm glad that you watched it. I'm going to be very interested in how Jones does in the NFL because I see something pretty unusual in him and I'm very curious to see if the Brady-type things I see in him translates to (early) NFL success. I spent some time the other day going through the last 10 drafts looking for patterns in QB prospects and the prime one is big-armed, tall, athletic dudes that couldn't handle the jump from College. The secondary one is just how few guys like Mac have come along during that span. Teddy Bridgewater is one of the few guys that won with their brain first and, to my eyes, he didn't have nearly the arm that Jones does.

I watched Trask a little this past fall and wasn't impressed. Same deal with his pro day. I think you are exactly right about him. He is always a little off the mark and his excellent WRs bailed him out. I think his arm is OK, but his timing is off. Interesting about Peyton's comments. He isn't going to lie, but sometimes it's what you don't say as much as what you do.
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Yeah, me too. Thanks for the recommendation. Mac is a very likable kid with a great sense of humor. I like him more now than I did and I didn't think that was possible, tbh. My oldest brother lives in Birmingham; he's a huge Bama Booster - yeah...season tickets for 40 years and $$ contributions way back when, too. He's been saying Mac Jones is going to be a star for a couple of years after watching him perform in the spring game and meeting him a while back. He reminded me that Mac was voted Scholar Athlete of the Year for the SEC. Borderline photographic memory.

Btw, the SEC/Espn channel has all the QB21 shows.
 
listen...chevss boosting a 'bama guy this hard is like bb running around naked on the streets. not something i ever thought would happen. 😄
i'd be fine with him. just not as a trade up. i like his center too.
 
HSanders said:
listen...chevss boosting a 'bama guy this hard is like bb running around naked on the streets. not something i ever thought would happen. 😄
i'd be fine with him. just not as a trade up. i like his center too.
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:rofl:
You're right about that! But, wth, the Pats have 2 Auburn QBs on the team already (for now anyway) so adding a Bama guy shouldn't be too bad. I mean, Mac is the first Bama QB since Stabler that I thought was worth a damn and that includes Tua.
 
If we miss out on Mac Jones I'm also good with Trey Lance as our next QB for the future. Different players, different schemes but there's more than 1 way to get a job done.

www.patspulpit.com

Would Trey Lance be a fit for the Patriots? ‘Heck yes.’

NFL Network’s lead draft analyst feels good about Lance’s potential fit in New England.
www.patspulpit.com www.patspulpit.com
 
chevss454 said:
If we miss out on Mac Jones I'm also good with Trey Lance as our next QB for the future. Different players, different schemes but there's more than 1 way to get a job done.

www.patspulpit.com

Would Trey Lance be a fit for the Patriots? ‘Heck yes.’

NFL Network’s lead draft analyst feels good about Lance’s potential fit in New England.
www.patspulpit.com www.patspulpit.com
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There is a lot to like about Lance, but we'll have to see whether he'll be ready to play soon or will need a couple of years.

I love the way the ball comes out of his hand like a rocket, but despite the inexperience and lower level of competition, the thing that bodes well
for his chances is the combination of ability to throw it anywhere on the field without throwing picks. His TD to INT ratio is off-the-charts, yet he throws a lot of bombs. You
seldom see that.

The other thing I noted is that while it's obvious that he can really run, but doesn't really avoid contact too much. What I'm not sure of is if he can't avoid it or doesn't want to. Maybe the latter. He could be the best power-running QB since Cam, who is the best in NFL history.

I'd prefer Mac Jones, but Trey Lance is impressive.
 
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