Where is the love for Hannah?

[Beaglebay]

I cannot speak for anyone who voted on if they knew who Hannah or any player was or how much they looked into it. There seems to be a lot of assumption being thrown out here. The first words on the thread was, the Pink hat patriots fans voted Brady in. So yeah I can see how someone might have an issue with that.

Your inability to interpret emoticons is documented...again

 

[TipRoast]

It is a little frustrating to know how good some of the past Pats were and to see that they are unknown or, worse, ignored by younger fans. There seems to be a perception that because pre-2001 teams didn't win any Super Bowls then somehow they weren't relevent. I'm not mad that younger people mostly don't care, but more I wish they knew how good those guys really were.

If you ask me how many of the '76-78 or '85 era Pats would make the current team in a fair tryout (assuming they were the same now) then the correct answer is "a shitload". Modern players tend to be more athletic and certainly bigger on average than they were in those eras, but on sheer talent there is no question that we were loaded at times in the past.

Imagine Brady throwing to Stanley Morgan. Imagine a backfield comprised of Haynes, Ray Clayborn, Tim Fox and Fred Marion. Every DB on the current roster would be replaced. I believe that many of the great linebackers we've had like Tippett, Nelson, Sam Hunt and Don Blackmon would easily make the roster. Mayo would be the only survivor.

Could Bill Belichick find a role for Sam Cunningham even though he was a fullback? I imagine he could surely come up with something. The guy was a freak of nature.

I'm not sure Russ Francis could beat out Gronkowski as a starter, but it would be an damned interesting competition.

Mac Herron vs. Woodhead? Child, please.

I'll quit there, but probably only a dozen guys from the current squad would make the 53-- if that.

Great post Hawg.

I imagine that Belichick would much rather have been coaching in the 50s and 60s, when rosters were smaller and there were more multi-faceted players in the league. Coaches like Belicheck, with the ability to "coach-em-up," were just as rare then as they are now, but I think the sport was purer then (in the sense that all we expected out of the athletes and coaches was the game of football), and so Belichick's abilities as a teacher and strategist would have been even more evident back then.

 

[midgar8784]

Your inability to interpret emoticons is documented...again

You did not use an emoticon.

 

[Beaglebay]

Pink hats rock the vote

 

[midgar8784]

I meant on what I was replying to, and you were not the only one to bring up the pick hat thing. I mean I have heard both sides and I am not sure why anyone would be upset really considering Hannah made it all the way to the finals, does that not say that fans are in fact taking into account older players from the past?

 

[TommyD420]

Imagine Brady throwing to Stanley Morgan.

I need a towel.

For the record, I'll put an all-time Patriots team up against an all-time Anyone Else team, every time.

 

[mikiemo83]

Sorry my parents didn't conceive me decades earlier . . . I do try to educate myself how ever on the past exploits of my beloved patriots but hell I was only born in 84 sorry i dont remember grogans glory years or anything before is grogan healthy enough to play or will it be eason I dont think i ever saw grogan go a full season

feel free to educate us though instead of belittling us might actually keep your beloved memories alive instead of alienating us younger fans

IF you want to know I took it as a knock at the Pink hat fan that arrived with the championship and is not based on age...the Bruins and Celtics are getting a big push from the pink hat/championship winning team bandwagon jumping fans similar to the one the Patriots 'enjoyed' in the early 2000's

 

[midgar8784]

IF you want to know I took it as a knock at the Pink hat fan that arrived with the championship and is not based on age...the Bruins and Celtics are getting a big push from the pink hat/championship winning team bandwagon jumping fans similar to the one the Patriots 'enjoyed' in the early 2000's

I have to say at this point, if you are a patriots fan, you really really are a patriots fan. After everything that has happened, it was not the easiest gig despite the winning. I think Boston area fans, me included even though I have been removed for awhile, almost like the pain and will remember the bad times more than the good times. There are more than talk about the ball through buckner's legs and the curse than talk about winning game 4 in 2004.

 

[12over4]

I have to say at this point, if you are a patriots fan, you really really are a patriots fan. After everything that has happened, it was not the easiest gig despite the winning. I think Boston area fans, me included even though I have been removed for awhile, almost like the pain and will remember the bad times more than the good times. There are more than talk about the ball through buckner's legs and the curse than talk about winning game 4 in 2004.

Agreed. It seems to me that fans of NE teams complain a lot more and are substantially more negative than fans of other teams. It actually gets quite annoying.

 

[TommyD420]

Agreed. It seems to me that fans of NE teams complain a lot more and are substantially more negative than fans of other teams. It actually gets quite annoying.

1) We, as a NE Area Fanbase of the 4 major sports, have been watching intently for a long-ass time. Decades. Passed down through families through even more decades. This would lead to the conclusion that we know the difference between "good" and "bad", as we've all seen plenty of both.

2) As a result, we know the difference between "overachieving" and "under-performing commensurate to their potential".

3) We don't root for College Sports here. No rah-rah shit.

4) We have historically (and still do) have some of the best sports writers and reporters in the country. They ask all the relevant questions and know when they're being bullshitted. So do we, as a fanbase in general.

5) Players get paid actual money to play sports. When they play poorly, they get called out on it. Again, no rah-rah shit. If someone's making $20mm/yr, they're going to get a lot more scrutiny on their performance than the guy making $200K/yr. Or, your college or high school athlete.

Sorry, if you want to blindly root for laundry - may I suggest moving to Gainesville, FL or Tuscaloosa, AL or Chapel Hill, NC or Indianapolis, IN-pre 2006. That way you can Roll Gators or whatever, and that's all you need to know.

Players are paid money. Our money. There are expectations that go along with that. When they're not met, we have an absolute right to know why they're not met. And we have an absolute right to ask why. And we have the absolute right to an answer.

What you call "negative", I call "informed". People here know their shit, so they know when shit is bad and when shit is good. And they also know what parts are bad and what parts are good.

I mean, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. Sunshine-Happy-Day-Rah-Rah-Go-Team-Go-You-Guys-Are-All-Awesome-Pep-Rally, USA? That's not for me. That's a Stepford fan. If you want to be a Stepford fan, be my guest - but you're simplifying it by calling it "negative NE Fans". In all honesty, it's "Willfully Blind" fans who are way, way worse.

 

[dchester]

Agreed. It seems to me that fans of NE teams complain a lot more and are substantially more negative than fans of other teams. It actually gets quite annoying.

Well it's good to see that you've been able to keep all your posts positive and uplifting.

 

[12over4]

Struck a nerve did I? I have no problem calling out the teams when they deserve it and I'm not speaking about this site really so much as I am a few others but a lot of times all I see is complaining about problems that aren't there or blowing things out of proportion. I started posting here again because this site has a lot less of that. Most of the issues discussed here are things worth being discussed.

 

[mikiemo83]

I have to say at this point, if you are a patriots fan, you really really are a patriots fan. After everything that has happened, it was not the easiest gig despite the winning. I think Boston area fans, me included even though I have been removed for awhile, almost like the pain and will remember the bad times more than the good times. There are more than talk about the ball through buckner's legs and the curse than talk about winning game 4 in 2004.

Sure many are Patriots fans Now but they know only the 2001 team forward and even then John Hannah could have been on the team but the pink hat fan would know Tim Brady, Tedy Bruschi and Rodney Harrison not John Hannah because it is not a glory position.

I bet some pink hats know the kicker as Adam Vinateri still, middy's you listen to the pink hat show on 98.5 right? You have to agree there.

To me this contest was a no brainer, Tom is Patriot football for he is Tom 5 at the highest profile position in football but I bet many people voted not knowing who half the players were and never bothered to google the guy to find out.

 

[BostonTim]

Eh, you know I am old too, and I have just never been one of those.....well back in my day...etc etc.

Some older people think youth does not respect their early heroes. And all people have their personal nostalgia which should be respected and not mocked.

Not for nothing, the old tend to envy the young. What I know as an older person is that youth will be served. That is to say, at any moment in time, the world (and that includes the wide world of sports) belongs to the young. Young fans no little about The players I grew up with. Oh they will have heard about Ted Williams. May know his stats and stuff. But will they know anything about Jackie Jensen? Jimmy Piersal, Frank Malzone? Medford's Bill Monbouquette? Ike Delock? Frank Sullivan? Dick Raditz? Sammy White? Don Buddin? Pete Runnels? Dick Gernet? Of course not. Why in hell would they.

All they know is what they have seen. Why should a child today care about the heroes of his grandfather's generation - he's got his own. By the time they are 20 they will have developed their very own "nostalgia". They will fondly remember the players who populated their favorite team when they were ten. And when they are my age, spending too much time looking back, their fondest memories will be of those very same players.

I have enjoyed all the titles that have come in all phases of my life as a Boston Sports fan. We've been blessed in these here parts in that regard. But my early memories, including the greatest dynasty ever and those woeful Sox, are burned deep and live on vividly in the most vibrant part of my memories.

That's why, in some ways, I regret that Brady and Bill and all these golden boys didn't come along when I was ten. Or perhaps I wish that I were ten again. Either way, these current beautiful days would be with me all my days and would be a fine & beautiful thread in the fabric of my life.


Cheers, BostonTim

 

[12over4]

Some older people think youth does not respect their early heroes. And all people have their personal nostalgia which should be respected and not mocked.

Not for nothing, the old tend to envy the young. What I know as an older person is that youth will be served. That is to say, at any moment in time, the world (and that includes the wide world of sports) belongs to the young. Young fans no little about The players I grew up with. Oh they will have heard about Ted Williams. May know his stats and stuff. But will they know anything about Jackie Jensen? Jimmy Piersal, Frank Malzone? Medford's Bill Monbouquette? Ike Delock? Frank Sullivan? Dick Raditz? Sammy White? Don Buddin? Pete Runnels? Dick Gernet? Of course not. Why in hell would they.

All they know is what they have seen. Why should a child today care about the heroes of his grandfather's generation - he's got his own. By the time they are 20 they will have developed their very own "nostalgia". They will fondly remember the players who populated their favorite team when they were ten. And when they are my age, spending too much time looking back, their fondest memories will be of those very same players.

I have enjoyed all the titles that have come in all phases of my life as a Boston Sports fan. We've been blessed in these here parts in that regard. But my early memories, including the greatest dynasty ever and those woeful Sox, are burned deep and live on vividly in the most vibrant part of my memories.

That's why, in some ways, I regret that Brady and Bill and all these golden boys didn't come along when I was ten. Or perhaps I wish that I were ten again. Either way, these current beautiful days would be with me all my days and would be a fine & beautiful thread in the fabric of my life.


Cheers, BostonTim

Some of us do bother though. I know who Dick "The Monster" Raditz is, Sammy White used to keep a woman's falsie in his catcher's mit, and Jimmy Piersall crawled to home when he hit his 100th career shot with the Mets. I think that any real fan, regardless of age, should take it upon themselves to learn the history of the team they root for. Read some books and watch a couple DVDs to gain an appreciation for the history of your team. I consider myself lucky to live in an era where the Sox and Pats are dominating forces in their respective leagues, not laughing stocks, and I know I haven't really gone through what the rest of you have but anybody who truly bleeds for the Sox or Pats should have an understanding of what came before the glory years.

 

[midgar8784]

1) We, as a NE Area Fanbase of the 4 major sports, have been watching intently for a long-ass time. Decades. Passed down through families through even more decades. This would lead to the conclusion that we know the difference between "good" and "bad", as we've all seen plenty of both.

2) As a result, we know the difference between "overachieving" and "under-performing commensurate to their potential".

3) We don't root for College Sports here. No rah-rah shit.

4) We have historically (and still do) have some of the best sports writers and reporters in the country. They ask all the relevant questions and know when they're being bullshitted. So do we, as a fanbase in general.

5) Players get paid actual money to play sports. When they play poorly, they get called out on it. Again, no rah-rah shit. If someone's making $20mm/yr, they're going to get a lot more scrutiny on their performance than the guy making $200K/yr. Or, your college or high school athlete.

Sorry, if you want to blindly root for laundry - may I suggest moving to Gainesville, FL or Tuscaloosa, AL or Chapel Hill, NC or Indianapolis, IN-pre 2006. That way you can Roll Gators or whatever, and that's all you need to know.

Players are paid money. Our money. There are expectations that go along with that. When they're not met, we have an absolute right to know why they're not met. And we have an absolute right to ask why. And we have the absolute right to an answer.

What you call "negative", I call "informed". People here know their shit, so they know when shit is bad and when shit is good. And they also know what parts are bad and what parts are good.

I mean, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. Sunshine-Happy-Day-Rah-Rah-Go-Team-Go-You-Guys-Are-All-Awesome-Pep-Rally, USA? That's not for me. That's a Stepford fan. If you want to be a Stepford fan, be my guest - but you're simplifying it by calling it "negative NE Fans". In all honesty, it's "Willfully Blind" fans who are way, way worse.

Wow, that was pretentious, don't worry he cannot see my posts. So in short if you do not rip the team all the time you know nothing about football. The funny part is, this was never ripped like this by their fans until they got good. What that seems to me is fans get spoiled then nothing is good enough and a year without the superbowl is a failure when 20 years ago a playoff win is a parade. In short not being over negative to everything the pats do does not mean you are stupid about football, it might just mean that you understand that teams do not win the superbowl every year, a QB does not always play perfect, a defender does not always defend every play a receiver does not always make every kick. Thats not willfully blind, thats practical. To me, I do not buy into this notion of people becoming patriots fans in 2001. I cannot wrap my head around it. It would be like me being a packers fan now, which wouldn't thats what those fans would do? Once the pats starting not winning superbowls you go to another team? The Boston area is most known for baseball not football, thats how it was with me growing up and my dad growing up, and on down. Now fans still cheered for the patriots because they were a home team and all, but lets not pretend that the interest does not pick up more success. So really, only true Football fans...not Patriots fans, will know the old players more so than most. Thats reality and its not isolated to our teams. There is no such thing as a bandwagon fan really, but there are fairweather fans.

 

[mikiemo83]

Why are tickets harder to buy once a team has sucess?

Because it is the cool place to be say you went.

I am not knocking the real fans just stating that many times the ass in the seat is there to show off the next day at work not because of a passion for the team/sport.

This is obvious if you go to a game around here. Since 2004 the Boston sports crowd has been infiltrated with the "need to be seen at" crowd. I am not picking on the actual fans that joined the ranks during this time but at the group that will vacate Foxboro if and when they have two losing seasons or Tom Brady retires (which ever happens first)

 

[Dman]

Wow, that was pretentious, don't worry he cannot see my posts. So in short if you do not rip the team all the time you know nothing about football. The funny part is, this was never ripped like this by their fans until they got good. What that seems to me is fans get spoiled then nothing is good enough and a year without the superbowl is a failure when 20 years ago a playoff win is a parade. In short not being over negative to everything the pats do does not mean you are stupid about football, it might just mean that you understand that teams do not win the superbowl every year, a QB does not always play perfect, a defender does not always defend every play a receiver does not always make every kick. Thats not willfully blind, thats practical. To me, I do not buy into this notion of people becoming patriots fans in 2001. I cannot wrap my head around it. It would be like me being a packers fan now, which wouldn't thats what those fans would do? Once the pats starting not winning superbowls you go to another team? The Boston area is most known for baseball not football, thats how it was with me growing up and my dad growing up, and on down. Now fans still cheered for the patriots because they were a home team and all, but lets not pretend that the interest does not pick up more success. So really, only true Football fans...not Patriots fans, will know the old players more so than most. Thats reality and its not isolated to our teams. There is no such thing as a bandwagon fan really, but there are fairweather fans.

he can now

 

[midgar8784]

Why are tickets harder to buy once a team has sucess?

Because it is the cool place to be say you went.

I am not knocking the real fans just stating that many times the ass in the seat is there to show off the next day at work not because of a passion for the team/sport.

This is obvious if you go to a game around here. Since 2004 the Boston sports crowd has been infiltrated with the "need to be seen at" crowd. I am not picking on the actual fans that joined the ranks during this time but at the group that will vacate Foxboro if and when they have two losing seasons or Tom Brady retires (which ever happens first)

This is true. But it comes along with it. It really does. I mean I went through every possible step I could to get to that 2004 superbowl in Houston, up to the point of well....we have to eat. Its a shame because 80 percent of the people there could really have cared less if the pats won or the eagles won. Its all cooperate showmanship now, but again that goes along with a team's success and I guess beats the alternative. I have said many many times it was much easier to be a fan when the team was crap.

 

[mikiemo83]

This is true. But it comes along with it. It really does. I mean I went through every possible step I could to get to that 2004 superbowl in Houston, up to the point of well....we have to eat. Its a shame because 80 percent of the people there could really have cared less if the pats won or the eagles won. Its all cooperate showmanship now, but again that goes along with a team's success and I guess beats the alternative. I have said many many times it was much easier to be a fan when the team was crap.

I went to the pats/panthers superbowl in Houston. I was lucky and paid a mark-up but nothing insane but you can't compare the regular season game to the superbowl in this case.

What the original point I took Ras to be making was the new has to be seen there fan of the patriot is jumping into the mix without doing as 12over4 did learning about the team and voting many times without knowing who it is they are voting for. I accept it as part of the success story but I don't have to like it because the superbowl is going to be what it is but the every day fan is now being corporate seated out of the 8 regular season games too because the demand increases as these pinkhats, for lack of a better term, Start appearing.

Then when the team starts to lose we will hear why are their no fans and the truth is the price keeps the real fans out