Who thinks this Saints players suspensions will stand ?

Dirty and questionable ore close relatives...
The Brady Knee shot... He lunged into the knee, not a clean hit but a continuation.

The Gonk ankle is a tough one that I heard a few commentating former players say was actually a cheap shot... But he was making a tackle any way he could..


So yes they were not 'cheap' but the continuance of the results makes you question the method.

Yeah, I disagree. I think the only reason people around here want to make Bernie Pollard out to be a "dirty player" is because he's been involved with injuries regarding some prominent Patriots.

But from what I saw, Pollard was just making a good-faith try at a tackle on Brady. He really couldn't see where everyone was before lunging.

He didn't even touch Welker :shrug:

And as far as Gronk goes, Gronk had a half-a-foot and 50 lbs on Pollard; he was just doing everything possible to tackle the guy,

Coincidence? Yes, absolutely. Pollard has never done anything approaching the dirty shit Ryan Clark has pulled, for example.
 
Jonathan Vilma's attorney requests an appeals hearing

Here's what the counsel of #Saints LB Jonathan Vilma sent to the #NFL for the appeal (it's LONG): "We request the NFL to provide immediately the following in order to assure that resolution of this dispute not be delayed and that Mr. Vilma has a fair opportunity as quickly as possible to remedy the harm that is being done to his reputation and to his career:

1. All documents and communications evidencing a “pay-for-performance/bounty” program, including, but not limited to, any ledger, notebook, record or record book, payment slip, note or entry of any sort, or evidencing that no such “pay-for- performance/bounty” program existed and/or involved Mr. Vilma;

2. All documents and communications evidencing that Mr. Vilma established, or assisted in establishing, a “pay-for-performance/bounty” program or any other program in violation of NFL rules, or evidencing that Mr. Vilma did not have a role in establishing, or assisting in the establishment of, such “pay-for-performance/bounty” program;

3. All documents and communications evidencing that Mr. Vilma “pledged,” made or received payments of any kind resulting from an opposing player being carried off the field, i.e., “cart-offs,” including but not limited to any ledger, notebook, record or record book, payment slip, note or entry of any sort, or evidencing that Mr. Vilma did not “pledge,” make or receive payments resulting from an opposing player being carried off the field, i.e., “cart-offs”

4. All documents and communications evidencing that Mr. Vilma “pledged,” made or received payments of any kind resulting from an opposing player being unable to return to the game, i.e., “knockouts,” including but not limited to any ledger, notebook, record or record book, payment slip, note or entry of any sort, or evidencing that Mr. Vilma did not “pledge,” make or receive payments resulting from an opposing player being unable to return to the game, i.e., “knockouts”;

5. All documents and communications evidencing that Mr. Vilma “pledged,” made or received payment of any kind resulting from an opposing player being injured, including but not limited to any ledger, notebook, record or record book, payment slip, note or entry of any sort, or evidencing that Mr. Vilma did not “pledge,” make or receive payments resulting from an opposing player being injured;

6. All documents and communications evidencing that Mr. Vilma “targeted” an opposing player in any manner that would violate NFL rules, or evidencing that Mr. Vilma did not “target” an opposing player in any manner;

7. All documents and communications evidencing that Mr. Vilma engaged “in unsafe and prohibited conduct intended to injure players” or did not engage “in unsafe and prohibited conduct intended to injure players”;

8. All documents and communications evidencing that Mr. Vilma “participate[d] in a program that potentially injured opposing players,” or evidencing that Mr. Vilma did not “participate[d] in a program that potentially injured opposing players”;

9. All documents and communications evidencing that Mr. Vilma “embraced” a “pay-for- performance/bounty” program or any other program in violation of NFL rules, or evidencing that Mr. Vilma did not “embrace” a “pay-for-performance/bounty” program or any other program in violation of NFL rules;

10. All documents and communications evidencing that Mr. Vilma offered, paid or intended to pay $10,000, or any amount of money, to any player for knocking Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, and/or any other player, out of the 2009 Divisional Playoff Game, 2010 NFC Championship Game, or any other game, or evidencing that Mr. Vilma did not engage in such activity;

11. All statistics of any nature gathered in the course of the ‘bounty program’ investigation relating to penalties assessed against Mr. Vilma and all other New Orleans Saints players during the years 2009 – 2011;

12. All game film of New Orleans Saints games and players gathered in the course of the `bounty program’ investigation of exhibition games, regular season games and playoff and championship games during the years 2009 – 2011;

13. All tape recordings of any sort gathered in the course of the ‘bounty program’ investigation relating to meetings of any sort that occurred during the years 2009 – 2011;

14. All witness statements, notes of interviews and declarations gathered during the course of the ‘bounty program’ investigation;

15. The names and identification of all persons interviewed by the NFL and all persons acting on behalf of the NFL during the course of the ‘bounty program’ investigation;

16. The names and identification of all witnesses the NFL plans to present at Mr. Vilma’s Appeal Hearing; and

17. All evidence the NFL plans to offer or use in any manner at Mr. Vilma’s Appeal Hearing."
 
The NFLPA is handling the appeals for all the Saints "bounty" players. All are appealing today, just as all are involved in the grievance
 
I guess I still think management is far more guilty here than the players. Your in a room full of other players being pumped up to play the game. The pressure to stand up to that would be ginormouse (big). It may sound easy to you, but the pack mentality takes over. To stand up to that in the heat of the moment or even in the course of a successful season would take huge gonads. The player punishment here should be far less than they coaches.


That didn't work at Nuremburg, and it won't work here.
 
Yahoo! Sports has unearthed evidence revealing that former New Orleans (and current Packers) defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove, who's facing an eight-game ban this season, was told to lie about the existence of the program by former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams (who's suspended indefinitely) and current assistant/interim head coach Joe Vitt (who will miss six games once the regular season starts).
Yahoo! obtained a signed declaration Hargrove submitted to the NFL, via the NFL players association no less, in April in which he admits being told to cover up the program. Vitt and Williams allegedly warned Hargrove, who played for the Saints in 2009 and 2010, of the league's investigation while instructing him to deny any knowledge of it. Williams said, per Hargove's declaraton: "Those (expletives at the NFL) have been trying to get me for years (and if all the Saints) stay on the same page, this will blow over."
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...ies+(Sports+-+NFL+-+Top+Stories)#.T6g2GL9yjJw
 
Not sure that was wise of Hargrove to say that. WHat he did was admit he had knowledge of the bounty system. That takes away any defense of "I didn't know."

His defense now is I was forced to lie to the NFL about it. That won't stand up well. NFLPA has an anonymous hot line to squeal on owners and staff. Players us it all the time, turning in teams when there are too many pads practices or they don't get enough water. He has no answer for, "If you knew it was wrong, and didn't want to lie, why didn't you call the NFLPA's anonymous line and give overall description of problem with mentioning your name?

I think this was a dumb mistake.

Apologies if this has been covered in the media. I'm in Quebec at the moment and TV sports coverage seems to be, "If it ain't hockey, it ain't sports."
 
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