Who thinks this Saints players suspensions will stand ?

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Agreed with MD on all points. I've been at the very bottom of a pile and I got poked in the eye and scratched pretty good a couple of times, but as he said, it's a part of the game. Big hits and everything make the game exciting and it's also a part of the game, but intending to hurt someone for personal or monetary gain is not a part of the game nor should it be. The players, the executioners, are just as responsible as Williams, the man who made this all up. They are grown men who should be aware of right from wrong.

I am not sure of the process they went to determine these players in particular responsible but I am going to assume it was based off of players who embraced or contributed to bounty funds the most. I thought that Vilma would be suspended for 8-10 games the most and a whole year, evidently effective immediately, might be a little harsh but they should still be punished IMO.

On another note, good call for the memo sent out to clubs "reminding" them that non-contract incentives are against policy. Keeps clubs honest, at least publicly.
 
I guess I still think management is far more guilty here than the players. Your in a room full of other players being pumped up to play the game. The pressure to stand up to that would be ginormouse (big). It may sound easy to you, but the pack mentality takes over. To stand up to that in the heat of the moment or even in the course of a successful season would take huge gonads. The player punishment here should be far less than they coaches.
 
grog said:
I guess I still think management is far more guilty here than the players. Your in a room full of other players being pumped up to play the game. The pressure to stand up to that would be ginormouse (big). It may sound easy to you, but the pack mentality takes over. To stand up to that in the heat of the moment or even in the course of a successful season would take huge gonads. The player punishment here should be far less than they coaches.
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I agree that management endorsing it is worse, but only to an extent. I think it sends the wrong message but I also think it's easier for those who are passionately invested but not putting their health and well-being on the line to endorse such a practice. I mean, you can't tell me that in your capacity as a fan you haven't thought "I hope _______ gets hurt" or secretly been happy when a key member of an opponent is injured. It's easier that way.

For a player to have that mindset, knowing the commitment and risk that his opponents are laying on the line, is more egregious to follow-through. Now, I have no problem with "big hit" bounties, or wagers among players for making plays that are a part of the game. I always wanted my teammates to absolutely wreck guys when I played football and hockey, but was always respectful of my opponents.

I remember my first exposure to a real high profile sports injury was my freshman year at Michigan when Justin Fargas broke his leg. It was a brutal injury and seeing this guy (who was the #1 recruit in the country) lose everything and basically have to start from scratch and rehab for 2 years was eye-opening. That's why I don't respect a Bernard Pollard and the crap he pulled on Gronk.
 
Well looks like http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...oner-roger-goodell?module=HP11_headline_stack the feta-comple of Goodell's unjust Saints players suspensions may be up for arbitration very soon. That new Aug 2011 CBA clause about no disciplinary on or off field actions before the new CBA by NFL commissioner is just what the players ordered on this situation. I do not believe the Wilma 1 year suspension is even remotely deserved ESPECIALLY without the NFL EXACT proof being provided to the PA. :fire:

I hope that worst case all players suspensions are SIGNIFICANTLY reduced..... :thumb:
 
NFL-Know said:
Well looks like http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...oner-roger-goodell?module=HP11_headline_stack the feta-comple of Goodell's unjust Saints players suspensions may be up for arbitration very soon. That new Aug 2011 CBA clause about no disciplinary on or off field actions before the new CBA by NFL commissioner is just what the players ordered on this situation. I do not believe the Wilma 1 year suspension is even remotely deserved ESPECIALLY without the NFL EXACT proof being provided to the PA. :fire:

I hope that worst case all players suspensions are SIGNIFICANTLY reduced..... :thumb:
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The declaration of Anthony Hargrove, which apparently everyone thought was obtained by the NFL, possibly under duress, apparently was obtained by the NFLPA. So now, how are they going to argue that they have a damning piece of evidence already when they're screaming SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE?
 
The thing about this is, it's the police policing the police. Everyone knew it would be appealed, but what gets me is, how and why did this ever go public in the first place? I was feeling a blackmail angle. Not that I'm a conspiracy theorist or anything. Supposedly it was a disgruntled quality control coach who uh, came forward.

When Sapp opened his yap that it was Shockey, I was like all yay! I can't stand that punk. Actually, they're both punk turds and I can't stand either one.

Goodell has been wildly inconsistent. Now, during the appeals process, does DeMaurice Smith bring up tape burnings? "Where is the evidence, Sir?" "In a bonfire." It's a double edged sword for the NFL.
 
grog said:
The whole (unwritten) premise of the NFL is that players are paid to level crushing hits on other players.
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I naively thought they were paid to win games, but Brandon Meriweather agrees with you. He would rather deliver a big hit than make a good tackle.

I actually have no problem with big hits. I do have a problem with intentionally trying to knock a player, especially the QB, out of the game.

I guess a lot of people are okay with offering $10,000 to hurt Favre, but not sure they would like the idea of a $10,000 bounty given to anyone who can put Brady on IR for the year.
 
The NFLPA has very little to argue against for 1 courts honor CBA's that is the entire point and contractual law is on the NFL's side not only via the CBA but I heard one analyst say it is in the legalease of every single players contract that signs for the NFL that they can not hit anyone with the "INTENT" to injure so even if no one was ever injured because of this the mere fact that they were trying with the intent too means they are screwed on 2 levels

Also the excuse that everyone does it does not work in court just like it doesnt work when your speeding down the highway or as we found out recording coach's singles even though everyone has a pair of binoculars in the booth for that very reason. These might seem overtly harsh compared to ours but when Goodell came at BB BB smartly said shit my bad sorry Ill stop instead of trying to cover it up or cry about how everyone is always trying to find out the other teams signals.
 
jbower4 said:
The NFLPA has very little to argue against for 1 courts honor CBA's that is the entire point and contractual law is on the NFL's side not only via the CBA but I heard one analyst say it is in the legalease of every single players contract that signs for the NFL that they can not hit anyone with the "INTENT" to injure so even if no one was ever injured because of this the mere fact that they were trying with the intent too means they are screwed on 2 levels

Also the excuse that everyone does it does not work in court just like it doesnt work when your speeding down the highway or as we found out recording coach's singles even though everyone has a pair of binoculars in the booth for that very reason. These might seem overtly harsh compared to ours but when Goodell came at BB BB smartly said shit my bad sorry Ill stop instead of trying to cover it up or cry about how everyone is always trying to find out the other teams signals.
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Yeah, acting like a whiny, finger-pointing bitch in an attempt to justify why you placed bounties on opposing players to intimidate them undermines the whole operation.
 
However many of us here wished the BB would have offered a little more whinny defense to explain himself.
 
Seems to me that in most sports, there's often some form of retribution for cheap shots. Maybe no on the level of the Untouchables ("They send one of your guys to the hospital; you send two of theirs to the morgue."), but still. I have to guess that many, if not most, players around the league had some knowledge of Williams' bounty programs with the Saints and with his prior teams. If they had one of their teammates seriously injured by a "bounty shot" from one of Williams' players, it seems to me that there might have been some on-field retaliation on a later play or in a subsequent game. Yet, I haven't heard of any. Did I miss it?
 
Me neither. I think it is one of those things that 'sounds' really nasty, but in reality, was nothing but a lot of hot air. Like the high school coach who bites the head off a frog to fire up his team to be nasty. It happens but doesn't really translate to much on the field, especially at the highest level.
 
MaineMan said:
Seems to me that in most sports, there's often some form of retribution for cheap shots. Maybe no on the level of the Untouchables ("They send one of your guys to the hospital; you send two of theirs to the morgue."), but still. I have to guess that many, if not most, players around the league had some knowledge of Williams' bounty programs with the Saints and with his prior teams. If they had one of their teammates seriously injured by a "bounty shot" from one of Williams' players, it seems to me that there might have been some on-field retaliation on a later play or in a subsequent game. Yet, I haven't heard of any. Did I miss it?
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Then why is Bernard Pollard still in the league and in a position to cripple more players?

:confused: :mad:
 
TommyD420 said:
The next time Bernie Pollard makes a dirty hit will be the first time. That's why. :coffee:
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Dirty and questionable ore close relatives...
The Brady Knee shot... He lunged into the knee, not a clean hit but a continuation.

The Gonk ankle is a tough one that I heard a few commentating former players say was actually a cheap shot... But he was making a tackle any way he could..


So yes they were not 'cheap' but the continuance of the results makes you question the method.
 
Anyone know what involvement the NFLPA has in the Lawsuits against the NFL for not protecting players?

If they have any at all, they really don't have much credibility when they go to appeal these suspensions. If I'm the NFL that's my first argument for both cases. "You sue us for not protecting players, then complain when we suspend players intentionally trying to injure others? Make up your mind NFLPA."
 
mikiemo83 said:
Dirty and questionable ore close relatives...
The Brady Knee shot... He lunged into the knee, not a clean hit but a continuation.

The Gonk ankle is a tough one that I heard a few commentating former players say was actually a cheap shot... But he was making a tackle any way he could..


So yes they were not 'cheap' but the continuance of the results makes you question the method.
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WRT the hit on Brady, in fairness, even at the time I thought that Pollard was "aiming" higher, but between Brady changing his position a bit and the resistance he was getting from behind (a partially failed block by Morris?), he fell short and ended up striking lower on Brady than he intended. Andre Carter (IIRC) was flagged for a similar hit last season. Falling forward at the time, Carter's initial contact was actually at the waist of the QB (who was backpedalling) but Carter slid down to the guy's knees before he could complete his wrap-up.
 
We shall see soon........

Well if anyone peruses the latest CBA right here ... https://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/2011CBA.pdf ... it is pretty easy to see some of the Goodell violations that the NFLPA is going to use in this appeal. It becomes intuitively obvious that Goodell , AGAIN, is trying to get away with another snow job. :fire:


I personally am glad that the NFLPA director and his staff is totally competent and there is plenty of time too get these wrongfully administered Saints player suspensions significantly reduce so the actual punishment fits the actual crime. :thumb: This crap of Goodell making an example out of this team and these players is pure, proverbial, and adulterated bullchit, in my mind's eye. :coffee:
 
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