Why no mile long thread regarding BJGE??

[zeke mowatt]

Like over at patsfans...........

Since he got the "start" the other evening I'd think this would be a hot topic. Zeke's take is that I'd rather have HE Of Many Names on the roster than Morris.

Whatchoo think?

 

[mayoclinic]

Yawn ....

Hard for me to get excited about BJGE. He's a one-trick pony with limited ability. If he ever learned to block and to catch out of the backfield he could be a nice player, but after 2+ years I don't see that happening.

 

[zeke mowatt]

Yawn ....

Hard for me to get excited about BJGE. He's a one-trick pony with limited ability. If he ever learned to block and to catch out of the backfield he could be a nice player, but after 2+ years I don't see that happening.

Pats have at least two backs on the roster right now that excel at recieving. Not every back is gonna develop that skill.

 

[mayoclinic]

Pats have at least two backs on the roster right now that excel at recieving. Not every back is gonna develop that skill.

The Pats' offense is much more effective when the RB in the backfield is also capable of blocking a pass rusher and being a receiving option. That keeps defenses guessing. That's why Kevin Faulk is our best RB despite his small stature and limited carries - because he excels at those things. BJGE is basic a tough interior runner and nothing else. That limits his effectiveness in our offense. He would probably have seen the field much more if he had developed some competency at either or both of those 2 skills - not necessarily Faulk-like ability, but at least some basic competency. The fact that he's done nothing at all to develop in those areas in 2+ years and didn't get any significant playing time even when we were down to 3 RBs last year is fairly revealing.

 

[spacecrime]

Pats have at least two backs on the roster right now that excel at recieving. Not every back is gonna develop that skill.

A back who can only run is less useful than a RB who can also pass block and receive. If he can't catch the ball, he can't be on the field for any plays in which one of the check downs includes his being a receiver or a hot read, and if he can't pass block, he can't line up in the I when Brady is under center (play action pass).

That said, didn't BJGE catch the only pass thrown at him last Thursday?

Also, he stayed in on pass plays when Brady was under center, making the Saints D play honest and not cheat against the pass. He did okay blocking those times.

I like BJGE much better than Sammy Morris. For one thing, I know BJGE will be there in December and January, whereas Morris is likely to be on IR.

 

[anderson]

People have been complaining that our run game was too predictable for years now. I don't know starting Lawfirm would address this problem at all.

 

[zeke mowatt]

People have been complaining that our run game was too predictable for years now. I don't know starting Lawfirm would address this problem at all.

I'm not saying feature him. "Start" is almost a meaningless term for patriots RBs these days. I'm saying perhaps this guy shoud get more opportunities. "Predictible" is fine by me as long as its predictably productive.

BJGE seems like he gets whats there to get perhaps more-so than some of the others at times.

 

[JD10367]

It's been discussed, just not in a dedicated thread. And my view is the same: while Maroney may catch and block better, I don't know how important those things now are since a.) the Pats have added 3 TEs and better WRs and b.) Maroney might not be the starter. If Belichick doesn't view Maroney as a starter, his catching/blocking ability isn't as important, so if Belichick thinks Maroney and BJGE bring the same thing to the table as a runner--or, heresy, that BJGE is a better runner--then I can see Belichick trading Maroney (since he would get something for Maroney, being a former 1st-rounder, whereas he wouldn't get a box of jocks for BJGE).

If Maroney stays and BJGE goes, I won't cry myself to sleep. Likewise, if BJGE stays and Maroney goes, I won't run naked in joy down the street. Because I get the feeling either/or won't be seeing the field if Morris/Taylor/Faulk can all stay healthy and productive.

 

[Oswlek]

It's been discussed, just not in a dedicated thread. And my view is the same: while Maroney may catch and block better, I don't know how important those things now are since a.) the Pats have added 3 TEs and better WRs and b.) Maroney might not be the starter. If Belichick doesn't view Maroney as a starter, his catching/blocking ability isn't as important, so if Belichick thinks Maroney and BJGE bring the same thing to the table as a runner--or, heresy, that BJGE is a better runner--then I can see Belichick trading Maroney (since he would get something for Maroney, being a former 1st-rounder, whereas he wouldn't get a box of jocks for BJGE).

If Maroney stays and BJGE goes, I won't cry myself to sleep. Likewise, if BJGE stays and Maroney goes, I won't run naked in joy down the street. Because I get the feeling either/or won't be seeing the field if Morris/Taylor/Faulk can all stay healthy and productive.

I still don't see why the TEs have anything to do with RB blocking. It isn't like they only get outside guys, Faulk is always picking up defenders who Koppen couldn't stop or guys stunting/delayd blitzing in the middle A TE lined up outside of a tackle wouldn't do a thing about any of those plays.

And whether he views a guy as a "starter" or not is irrelevent, they need to fill the role when they see the field, simple as that.

I'm not saying anything about Maroney, just about the RB role itself.

 

[JD10367]

I still don't see why the TEs have anything to do with RB blocking. It isn't like they only get outside guys, Faulk is always picking up defenders who Koppen couldn't stop or guys stunting/delayd blitzing in the middle A TE lined up outside of a tackle wouldn't do a thing about any of those plays.

Yes, but my point was that they'll be running more plays that call for the TE to block instead of Maroney. I doubt he had Maroney run-blocking out of desire; more out of necessity, since they had crap for TEs and were thin at WR (and thus Maroney had to be more of a primary weapon).

And whether he views a guy as a "starter" or not is irrelevent, they need to fill the role when they see the field, simple as that.

I disagree. If Belichick thinks Maroney would be on the field for 75% of the plays, then I could see where he'd value his blocking and receiving over having BJGE on the field for 75% of the plays. But if he plans on having Morris, Taylor, or Faulk on the field for 75% of the plays, then Maroney's blocking and catching abilities aren't quite as important. And what if Belichick honestly thinks BJGE runs better? Doesn't that count for something too?

I'm not in Belichick's head so I have no idea what he thinks. Maybe he does think Maroney is the starter. But if he doesn't, and if he plans on utilizing less RB blocking, then I can see where Maroney might be moved if someone calls up and makes an offer. (He was a high pick, and still has the dreaded "potential" label, so maybe Belichick can talk someone out of a 3rd for him, who knows.)

 

[anderson]

I doubt Taylor, Morris and Faulk will account for 75% of plays.

 

[dchester]

Like over at patsfans...........

Since he got the "start" the other evening I'd think this would be a hot topic. Zeke's take is that I'd rather have HE Of Many Names on the roster than Morris.

Whatchoo think?

BJGE isn't someone that I get too excited over. He gets what is there, but nothing else. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up somewhere else by the start of the season.

 

[Oswlek]

Yes, but my point was that they'll be running more plays that call for the TE to block instead of Maroney. I doubt he had Maroney run-blocking out of desire; more out of necessity, since they had crap for TEs and were thin at WR (and thus Maroney had to be more of a primary weapon).

Other than Morris, who of NE's RBs was ever asked to run block? They either run the ball, do a play fake, pass protect or run a route. How they run block is immaterial. How they pass protect - when the LG will almost certainly be a first time starter, the C is worsening each year and the RG is an injury waiting to happen - is critical.

I disagree. If Belichick thinks Maroney would be on the field for 75% of the plays, then I could see where he'd value his blocking and receiving over having BJGE on the field for 75% of the plays. But if he plans on having Morris, Taylor, or Faulk on the field for 75% of the plays, then Maroney's blocking and catching abilities aren't quite as important. And what if Belichick honestly thinks BJGE runs better? Doesn't that count for something too?

Again, it doesn't matter how many plays a player sees. They must be an asset in the passing game or else their use becomes predictible. Sure, if BJGE was significantly better at running it would make up for his poor passing set abilities, it is about total value. But if he is a little bit better of a RB and much worse at the others he won't see the field.

I'm not sure why we are disagreeing about it. BJGE looked equally impressive running the ball last preseason, yet, despite injuries to all three guys ahead of him as well as Maroney being benched, he ran the ball 26 times. Why is that?

I'm not in Belichick's head so I have no idea what he thinks. Maybe he does think Maroney is the starter. But if he doesn't, and if he plans on utilizing less RB blocking, then I can see where Maroney might be moved if someone calls up and makes an offer. (He was a high pick, and still has the dreaded "potential" label, so maybe Belichick can talk someone out of a 3rd for him, who knows.)

They couldn't possibly do less RB run-blocking and they certainly won't lessen the importance of RB pass blocking.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

This is exactly why I was pining for the 6'2"-250# "heavy" RB all pre-draft. Now with the devastating TE's we have we could go with the 2 TE set with the monster in the backfield. The Defense counters with a "big" set, to stop the run. TB audibles to flex the TE's out and take advantage of the Defense lack of speed and shreds them on 3-5 step drops, where the pass blocking of the RB is really minimal, just get in the way.

 

[harrisonhits]

<<
Why no mile long thread regarding BJGE??
>>

Because he's still a 3rd stringer, will likely never be anything but, and just because he got a shot in the preseason doesn't mean dick.

 

[StoneWalled]

I am interested in seeing what former Houston Texan Chris Taylor can do with some extended time. He's missed significant time over the last few years but, while we haven't heard much about him this camp it may be a good thing. He does have some pro starts under his belt and has decent size and hands. Can't find anything about his blocking ability though.

 

[JD10367]

By "run blocking" I meant to say "pass blocking". But my assertion is the same: if Belichick doesn't view Maroney as a starter, he has to look at their factors and evaluate what's best for the team. Let's play "Madden" and give them letter grades, and assume Belichick thinks BJGE runs a hair better. And let's assume Belichick thinks Maroney needs to be ridden by a coach to keep him focused (which I think is pretty evident by the amount Fears yaps at him and how bad the fans are "dancing" in Maroney's head, judging by that quote from him).

Maroney
Running: B-
Pass blocking: B+
Receiving: B+
Trade worth: A-
Headcase Quotient: F

BJGE
Running: B
Pass Blocking: C+
Receiving: C
Trade Worth: F
Headcase Quotient: A

Given a team with Tom Brady at QB, Randy Moss at WR, a deep and talented WR corps, three hopeful stud TEs who can catch and block, and a stable of decent backs (Morris, Taylor, Faulk, maybe Chris Taylor or BJGE), you just have to wonder when they decide it's shit-or-get-off-the-pot time.

It's not that I hate Maroney. I'd be more than happy to see him shock us all and run for 1500 yards. I just don't see him living up to the potential he supposedly had, especially for where he was drafted, and if Belichick can get something for him in trade I wouldn't cry. I don't think we'll be looking back at this season and saying, "God, what could have been... this team was SO close, if only they hadn't traded Maroney...". JMO, YMMV.

 

[anderson]

By "run blocking" I meant to say "pass blocking". But my assertion is the same: if Belichick doesn't view Maroney as a starter, he has to look at their factors and evaluate what's best for the team. Let's play "Madden" and give them letter grades, and assume Belichick thinks BJGE runs a hair better. And let's assume Belichick thinks Maroney needs to be ridden by a coach to keep him focused (which I think is pretty evident by the amount Fears yaps at him and how bad the fans are "dancing" in Maroney's head, judging by that quote from him).

Maroney
Running: B-
Pass blocking: B+
Receiving: B+
Trade worth: A-
Headcase Quotient: F

BJGE
Running: B
Pass Blocking: C+
Receiving: C
Trade Worth: F
Headcase Quotient: A

Given a team with Tom Brady at QB, Randy Moss at WR, a deep and talented WR corps, three hopeful stud TEs who can catch and block, and a stable of decent backs (Morris, Taylor, Faulk, maybe Chris Taylor or BJGE), you just have to wonder when they decide it's shit-or-get-off-the-pot time.

It's not that I hate Maroney. I'd be more than happy to see him shock us all and run for 1500 yards. I just don't see him living up to the potential he supposedly had, especially for where he was drafted, and if Belichick can get something for him in trade I wouldn't cry. I don't think we'll be looking back at this season and saying, "God, what could have been... this team was SO close, if only they hadn't traded Maroney...". JMO, YMMV.

Assuming we had a team that relied on one running back to take, say, 70% of the run play snaps then Maroney would have had a 1200+ yard season last year. Would you have taken that kind of performance (which is still pretty average in terms of YPC) or not?

Maroney took around 40% of the attempts last year which came to 757 yards in 194 carries for a 3.9 average. He had 9 TD's in those attempts and 4 total fumbles. Again, I'm not trying to say that he's anywhere near an elite RB in the league, but his lack of a 1000 yard season has more to do with the number of carries he gets in the course of a season than anything else.

 

[anderson]

Also Maroney was our 3rd highest point scorer last year after Ghost and Randy. Ben Watson was our number 4 on that list.

 

[MAYHEM]

BJGE is a solid back, I doubt he has trade value like Reiss suggested though.

BJGE started over Maroney is all I need to know. BJGE is the best back not named Faulk on the Pats. Maroney sat out during last years Ravens game, he whiffed on blocks in the Superbowl in '07, and fumbles when it mattered most all last season.

Maroney can't block or get open. I think Maroney is gonna get cut.

/stirring trouble