Wow, Ugliness in Detroit

[mgoblue101415]

I don't think it was so much Artest mocking the fans as it was him trying to keep his cool. I was actually surprised that he kind of walked away from the pushing and shoving that was going on on the court with a couple of the other players. Even after Wallace threw his wristband at Artest... He started to get up but Carlisle put his hand on Ron's chest and pushed him back down on the table. I'm not a big fan of Artest's but he actually impressed me there for staying out of everything.

The thing is... Now you have a pissed off Artest, trying to surpress his anger, and then he gets hit by a cup of pop or beer or whatever it was. That was like lighting a match in gas filled room. Yes, he originally hit the wrong guy, but the guy was talking sh*t to him as he ran towards him and was friends with the guy who actually threw the cup (just assuming that since while they show Artest laying on the table, you can see the guy who throws the cup, and the guy Artest goes after, standing together with a group of guys) so the guy deserves what he got.

Now, I'm usually one of the first to say something about a player, in any sport, going into the stands or throwing chairs into the stands or what not, but in this case... Yes, Artest was wrong for going into the stands but this wasn't because someone was spewing vulgarities at him or talking sh*t, this was assault, plain and simple. At that point Artest was no longer a player, he was a guy who had something thrown at him and I don't hold it against him for doing what most people would do in the same instance... Go after the guy who'd thrown it.

And O'Neal and Jackson... They went into the stands to protect Artest, and I definitely see nothing wrong with that.

It should have ended with Artest hitting the guy, then security stopping it. But the fans in the area started a riot. There wouldn't have been a need for any Pacers to go into the stands if the rest of the fans would have stayed out of it. And the fan on the court.... I want to see that jerk try and file charges. That was self-defense on Artest's part plain and simple. The guy was coming at him, fists raised. Now O'Neal cold cocking the guy was a little much but by then I think everyone was fired up and no one was thinking clearly.

The fans escalated the entire incident and I hope they get what's coming to them. Every fan on that tape who is seen throwing something, or throwing punches should definitely be banned from ever entering the Palace again. And I hope many of them get nailed with assault charges or at least disturbing the peace.

And the foul that started it all wasn't that bad. My God, you see worse than that in at least 2 or 3 games a night. Wallace overreacted. If the fans weren't complete idiots, Wallace would have probably been benched for the remaining seconds of the game for shoving/hitting Artest. A couple other players may have been benched as well, i.e., Jackson, for the little scuffle on the court. But that would have been that. The fans brought themselves into it, and by doing so, deserve anything that happened to them.

That's my two cents.

 

[lobster]

The officials and coaches should control the players while Security should monitor and control the fans. If Security can't properly monitor and control the fans than that is clearly the club's problem - in this case Detroit.

The other problem was crediting the Pacers with the win. They should have forfeited the game.

 

[pookie]

What an embarrassment for the NBA, the teams on the court, the Piston's organization and security staff. ALL OF THEM WERE WRONG in this incident.

However, there were some pretty good punches landed that ought to garner several million dollars for the hoodlum, degenerate fans of Detroit.

 

[Moebius]

The thing is... Now you have a pissed off Artest, trying to surpress his anger, and then he gets hit by a cup of pop or beer or whatever it was. That was like lighting a match in gas filled room. Yes, he originally hit the wrong guy, but the guy was talking sh*t to him as he ran towards him and was friends with the guy who actually threw the cup (just assuming that since while they show Artest laying on the table, you can see the guy who throws the cup, and the guy Artest goes after, standing together with a group of guys) so the guy deserves what he got.

Now, I'm usually one of the first to say something about a player, in any sport, going into the stands or throwing chairs into the stands or what not, but in this case... Yes, Artest was wrong for going into the stands but this wasn't because someone was spewing vulgarities at him or talking sh*t, this was assault, plain and simple. At that point Artest was no longer a player, he was a guy who had something thrown at him and I don't hold it against him for doing what most people would do in the same instance... Go after the guy who'd thrown it.

I tend to disagree with that sentiment a bit. Yes, these fans were wrong for what they did, and deserve criminial action (inciting a riot would be a good start). BUT, Artest was still a professional sports player, no matter what. These guys are making more money in a year than most of us will see in our lifetimes. They are paid to be professionals. No matter what the case, there is no excuse whatsoever for entering the stands. Had he not, security grabs the guy, probably arrests him, end of problem, game goes on. No matter what security does, once a player enters the stands, there's going to be no stopping the escalation. Invariably, there will be enough idiot fans who feel that gives them the right to get down on the court and attack the players (probably in hopes that they'll be able to sue for millions the next day).

Yeah, the fans were wrong, and deserve (and hopefully will see) plenty of action against them, but the bottom line is the thing got out of control because the professionals lost their composure. I'll be happy to see Artest get the death sentence and miss the remainder of the season. Preferably without pay in my mind.

 

[HOF]

Alright, let me and you meet up and let me chuck a beer right at you. You wanna shake hands afterwards?

Throw it at PatsRmyboys instead!

j/k

I'm a Bills fan, I will try diplomacy ( Maybe )!

 

[Moebius]

Alright, let me and you meet up and let me chuck a beer right at you. You wanna shake hands afterwards?

You pay me that kind of money, you can chuck a beer, the hot dog, and the nachos at me and I'll still shake your hand.

 

[bideau]

Alright, let me and you meet up and let me chuck a beer right at you. You wanna shake hands afterwards?

BP, it's not as simple as that. In a sporting event, there cannot be a street justice mentality between the players and the fans. A player must NEVER, EVER enter the stands. It will always result in an escalation of a problem.

I'lll reiterate how I feel. If a player feels threatened by a fan who is in the stands, its up to them and team officials to point those fans out to security and police and let them deal with it. If a fan enters the field (or court) of play and confront a player, then they're fair game.

The Detroit organization should somehow pay a price for the behavior of their fans. Perhaps forcing them to lose a few home games and force the Pistons to refund money and take the financial loss. Perhaps that'll motivate them to provide better security. Prosecute any fan identified on tape that took part in the fighting or mess afterward. The Pistons cannot force fans to take a loss on games not played since that would invite multiple law suits.

Artest should be gone for the year. Jackson and O'neall should be gone for at least 20 games. Wallace should get the customary penalty for instigating a fight.

 

[HOF]

BP, it's not as simple as that. In a sporting event, there cannot be a street justice mentality between the players and the fans. A player must NEVER, EVER enter the stands. It will always result in an escalation of a problem.

I'lll reiterate how I feel. If a player feels threatened by a fan who is in the stands, its up to them and team officials to point those fans out to security and police and let them deal with it. If a fan enters the field (or court) of play and confront a player, then they're fair game.

The Detroit organization should somehow pay a price for the behavior of their fans. Perhaps forcing them to lose a few home games and force the Pistons to refund money and take the financial loss. Perhaps that'll motivate them to provide better security. Prosecute any fan identified on tape that took part in the fighting or mess afterward. The Pistons cannot force fans to take a loss on games not played since that would invite multiple law suits.

Artest should be gone for the year. Jackson and O'neall should be gone for at least 20 games. Wallace should get the customary penalty for instigating a fight.

Good work! I was too lazy to put it that way!

 

[Moebius]

I'lll reiterate how I feel. If a player feels threatened by a fan who is in the stands, its up to them and team officials to point those fans out to security and police and let them deal with it. If a fan enters the field (or court) of play and confront a player, then they're fair game.

Actually, ya know that's a very good point. If a fan enters the field in any sport now, they're guaranteed to be arrested, probably wrestled to the ground with pretty strong force, and dragged off either in arm lock or in cuffs. Why shouldn't the same be true for a player entering the stands? Obviously, we've now seen that players can be just as dangerous as fans.

[rant]

It occurs to me that part of the problem is the greed and commecialism that has totally consumed pro sports. It used to be, you had to be a certain caliber, both in sports talent and otherwise to be a pro player. These days, if you can dunk a ball, or run like a bat out of hell, or anything else, you can pick yourself up out of the ghetto and become a multi millionaire.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for people of any background having a chance to change their stars. However, if you're going to, you can not, simply CAN NOT take the ghetto/gangsta/whatever mentality with you. However, more and more have brought that mentality with them, and we've seen the results. Not just this incident, but the growing intensity and fequency of these kinds of problems. Why? Because they get slapped with a fine that is equivalent to a $1.00 parking fine. Or maybe a suspension for a couple of games. Oooh, big deal, you still get paid millions and get a few extra days off. So why stop grandstanding, or fighting, or anything else when you can easily get away with it.

My opinion is that it's time to stop letting them get away with anything. You screw up, you get a real penalty. Miss the remainder of the season without pay. Make these players have to go work full time a McDonalds or as a trash collector for the rest of the season to remind them how privledged they really are. Screw up again, and you're out. End of career...period.

[/rant]

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[#1Patsfan_chica]

That really was an ugly scene to watch. Detroit fans are going to go down as some of the worst fans.

 

[Hawg73]

Very astute comments by Bideau, in particular.

Coming on the heels of the Olympic embarassment-- this is the last thing the NBA needs with the paying customers and ratings down.

I've been watching the Celts and trying to get myself interested in Bball again and an incident like this makes me wonder why I bother.

I will comment that this is not worse than the Bruins going into the stands and the clips look eerily similar.

The word sickening comes to mind.

 

[Mark_Henderson]

That really was an ugly scene to watch. Detroit fans are going to go down as some of the worst fans.

In the Fleet Center, those would be mostly corporate type people in seats that are that good. I guess this sounds elitist (I can't afford the good seats very often), but why does Detroit have a Springer audience?

 

[kirjtc2]

In the Fleet Center, those would be mostly corporate type people in seats that are that good. I guess this sounds elitist (I can't afford the good seats very often), but why does Detroit have a Springer audience?

If you've ever been to Detroit, you'll figure it out pretty quickly.

JPK

 

[BionicPatriot]

BP, it's not as simple as that. In a sporting event, there cannot be a street justice mentality between the players and the fans. A player must NEVER, EVER enter the stands. It will always result in an escalation of a problem.

I'lll reiterate how I feel. If a player feels threatened by a fan who is in the stands, its up to them and team officials to point those fans out to security and police and let them deal with it. If a fan enters the field (or court) of play and confront a player, then they're fair game.

The Detroit organization should somehow pay a price for the behavior of their fans. Perhaps forcing them to lose a few home games and force the Pistons to refund money and take the financial loss. Perhaps that'll motivate them to provide better security. Prosecute any fan identified on tape that took part in the fighting or mess afterward. The Pistons cannot force fans to take a loss on games not played since that would invite multiple law suits.

Artest should be gone for the year. Jackson and O'neall should be gone for at least 20 games. Wallace should get the customary penalty for instigating a fight.

How should Artest be gone for the year? There was no security around at the time. I would have done the same exact thing had I been Artest. Had security been there, they shoulda nabbed the guy but security let things get out of hand. Artest had every right to block that stupid **** for chucking **** at him.

And what did Jackson and O'neal do? They had to go up there, because people were trying to jump Artest, and for the idiot who ran onto the court, thats that guys own damn fault. The difference with NFL and NBA players are the stands are not as open. The fans had no right to do what they did and deserved to be jabbed.

 

[bideau]

How should Artest be gone for the year? There was no security around at the time. I would have done the same exact thing had I been Artest. Had security been there, they shoulda nabbed the guy but security let things get out of hand. Artest had every right to block that stupid **** for chucking **** at him.

And what did Jackson and O'neal do? They had to go up there, because people were trying to jump Artest, and for the idiot who ran onto the court, thats that guys own damn fault. The difference with NFL and NBA players are the stands are not as open. The fans had no right to do what they did and deserved to be jabbed.

BP, from what I've been reading and hearing from the media around the country, you are certainly in the minority here.

I guess you're just not getting what many of us have been saying. Maybe its a generational thing.

But, that being said, the NBA has just announced that Artest is gone for the year.

This is from ESPN.com:

It appears the Indiana Pacers will pay a heavy price for Friday's embarrassing melee.

Ron Artest has been suspended for the season, while teammates Stephen Jackson received a 30-game suspension, and Jermaine O'Neal, a 25-game suspension, ESPN.com's Marc Stein and Insider Chad Ford have learned.

"The penalties issued today deal only with one aspect of this incident -- that of player misconduct. The actions of the players involved wildly exceeded the professionalism and self control that should rarely be accepted from NBA players," commissioner David Stern said in a statement Sunday.

The Detroit Pistons will be without Ben Wallace for six games.

Indiana's Anthony Johnson also received a five-game suspension.

Eldon Campbell, Chauncey Billups and Derrick Coleman, as the Pacers' Reggie Miller each received 1-game suspensions and $35,000 fines for leaving the bench following the initial altercation between Wallace and Artest.

"We must ... not allow our sport to be debased by what seems to be declining expectations for behavior by fans and athletes alike," Stern said in the statement.

Artest, O'Neal and Jackson -- who all threw punches at spectators in the stands or on the court at the end of the nationally televised Pacers-Pistons game -- began serving suspensions Saturday night when the league handed down indefinite bans until specific number of games could be decided upon.

 

[RichM99]

Two points-the Bruins went into the stands because someone threw a tirechain at player. Big difference between that and a plastic cup.
My main take on this event was that the Pacers were looking to seriously injure people, not protect their teammates.
The suspensions are warranted.

 

[bighit26]

I've tried to stay away from this thread because I'm a Pacers fan, and find myself defending Artest when he really shouldn't be defended. First off; I read in this thread someone called Artest the "Rapper". He started a record label and the album he is promoting is 3 young girls and is an R&B album. Know your facts before you categorize someone!

Secondly, People can argue whether Artest should be suspended 73 games or not. Even 30 games for Stephen Jackson doesn't surprise me. 25 games for O'Neil is total Bull #^@*. All he did was punch a fan who was on the court, and try to go after someone who threw a CHAIR at him.

My real beef is with David Stern who I will now refer to as "The Hardcourt Hitler" When asked whether the decision to suspend Artest was unanimous he replied "Yes...It was 1 to nothing" The only reason these suspensions were so strict is he wants all the blame to be on the players, and noone to point a finger at the NBA for total lack of security. Watch the tape....the people trying to break things up were Pacers and Pistons players and coaches. Where was security? The first time I saw security (and I watched it both live and several hundred times on ESPN) was when they had a bottle of Pepper spray in Artest's face at centercourt. Hitler also said that Artest's history had alot to do with his decision. Ben Wallace had more to do with inciting the fans than anyone else, first for over reacting to a foul and second for being the first one in the arena to throw anything at Artest. Artest acted appropriately by laying on the scoring table during the altercation on the court. Who was the lunatic then?

Am I defending Artest for going into the stands? NO. I understand why he did, but I also know that he shouldn't have crossed the line. As for the argument that he should have pointed the fan out to security. He probably didn't have 45 minutes to find one.

It'll be surprising to see what happens when the Player's Union gets involved. We haven't heard the last of this and hopefully they knock Stern off his dictator's perch!

 

[bighit26]

Another thought. What does Stern's decision say to fans? If the Celtics fans are worried about the Miami Heat why not throw things at Shaq cuss his family and do whatever it takes to get him to react so he misses the entire season? It's becoming more and more evident that the loser fans involved in the incident will not only get off scott free, but will all probably get PAID for what they did!

 

[dchester]

Didn't Jim Rice go into the stands at Yankee Stadium years ago when a fan reached over and stole his cap? He got his hat back as I recall.

BTW, I have no problem with the Artest suspension, although I'm still thinking about the other ones.
________
volcano vaporizer

 

[RichM99]

First off; I read in this thread someone called Artest the "Rapper". He started a record label and the album he is promoting is 3 young girls and is an R&B album. Know your facts before you categorize someone!


Sorry, I was trying to point out the fact that this guy thinks his recording company is more important to him than his basketball career. Well, he got his wish.


25 games for O'Neil is total Bull #^@*. All he did was punch a fan who was on the court, and try to go after someone who threw a CHAIR at him.


O'Neil was trying to maim that guy, who was in a defenseless position.

Artest acted appropriately by laying on the scoring table during the altercation on the court. Who was the lunatic then?


You have got to be kidding. Artest lying on the scorers table was his way of sticking it to the fans. If he was really trying to diffuse the situation, he wouldn't position himself two feet from the crowd. Like the guy on EPSN said, he chickened out with Wallace, then decided to cherry pick fights with drunk fans.