2011 NFL Draft Day 2 Thread

[JD10367]

Sorry, folks, but with the exception of Solder (and I'm not really convinced that we needed a first round OT, not if Scar can work wonders with some of the players we've had on the O-line), I find this draft to be pretty below-average.

A very good CB... even though Bodden is certainly good enough as a #2 CB for several more years.

You can never have enough defensive backs.

Two RBs? REALLY? Especially with Woodhead as our new Faulk-like player?

I love Woodhead but he's a pass-catching shrimp who might have been lightning in a bottle. And aside from him, there's... oh, that's right... POSSIBLY NO ONE left from last year. Yeah, RB wasn't a need.

Mallett?! I agree that he could be a solid NFL QB; but know what?

WE DON'T PHUCKING NEED ONE RIGHT NOW.

Our window is SMALL with Tom F'ing Brady. We need to win now. Mallett doesn't fulfill that.

They took a late 3rd-round flyer on a QB with immense talent who could've gone in the Top 10. Brady is on the downhill side of his career age-wise. Ever hear of Aaron Rodgers? They practically stole Mallett and, if he develops behind Brady for a few years and steps in when it's time, they could literally be set at QB until around 2025.

Sorry, I take the "In Bill we trust" only to a particular level.

As someone said, our SB teams won by defense with a very good offense. One of the hallmarks of that defense was a defensive line that could push forward and OLB's that could get to the QB.

We don't have that now. At all. Anyone claiming otherwise is deciding to ignore the Patriots' opponents' 48% 3rd down conversion rate.

Bad draft.

Good thing you're not in charge of it.

I rarely stop in here any more, but it's nice to see the same shit going on. Fans still think they know better than the Best Coach Ever. And midgar still won't shut the **** up.

 

[JD10367]

Ahem..

Yeah, I figured you must have your Pro Shop order in already.

 

[Hawg73]

Okay, judging from our activity in the draft this year I can conclude thus:-

• There is a belief that there's more to come from the current roster

• 
  
  Yes. Let's take the example of the pass rush. I'm of the belief that there weren't really a whole lot of pass rushers in this draft and the ones that can are either too high (Von Miller) too one-dimensional (Akeem Ayers, Jabaal Sheard) or somewhat undersized 4-3 ends that don't quite fit (Cam Jordan, Da'Quan Bowers). I believe BB thinks he can get pressure from an improved Cunningham, an enhanced inside blitz (Mayo, Chung) and an unsung kid that impressed late last year (Eric Moore). Ninkovich, Spikes and Fletcher chip in along the way. Recall that BB believes sacks are overrated and this thing isn't over, nor is free agency.
  
  
  
  

  [*]Bill is concerned about the lack of veterans on the team

  
  I don't know why you came to this conclusion. I don't see that.
  
  

  [*]The 2011 draft class isn't up to much

  
  Tons of run stuffing DLs, but that's where we are pretty stocked. Maybe it isn't all that great.
  
  

  [*]The Raiders are our b*tches when it comes to trades

  
  Maybe, but at least they seem to be drafting actual football players lately.
  
  

  [*]Bill cares far, far more about getting value than addressing team needs

Not far, far more. He will address need first if given a choice between two players with similar grades with the slightly higher one playing a position where we are relatively set.

If you refer to Mallett then I'd suggest that maybe he had a 2nd round grade and they didn't have a single guy left on their board that they assessed as a good value in the 3rd, so took a guy that could be very valuable down the road.

I was not a believer in Hoyer. The position needed to be improved. He fell into our laps and if he turns out to be a decent citizen and works hard to learn then he could be this years version of, dare I say it? Another QB who was passed over by teams selecting six QBs in front of him and creating a monster in the process.

He's the quintessential best player available pick and I guarantee that 6 GMs shit their pants when we pulled the trigger on him. The absolute last place you would ever imagine he would land.

I like the move. It intrigues me. I watched Mallett a lot and he was very impressive.

The price was right.

:shrug:

 

[Patsfaninpa]

I love the Boston sports fan. But, they don't give a rat's arse about college football. Don't watch any of the games and then know everything about these players. I've seen a lot of Solder, Vereen, Ridley and Mallett. Not much of Darling. The rb's will be very good. Once Woodhead got dinged up. We were really lacking depth there. Woodhead should get the ball 7-8 times per game. Was used way too much in the Jets playoff game. This is where the depth will help.

I had Mallett the 2nd qb Hawg. Gabbert first, then him. Saw him at Michigan in 07 when PSU played up there. A couple of times last year. Wasn't sure how good he was. Was outstanding this year 64.7 pct 32 td's and 12 picks. Led Arkansas to a 10-2 regular season and narrow bowl loss to Ohio St. He played against; Auburn, Alabama, LSU, Tex a&m, Georgia, South Carolina, Mississippi St and Ohio St. Now, go look up who Jake Locker played against and his stats. And, Andy Dalton too. Playing a craptastic schedule.

 

[EasyBigFella]

Guys and Gals, Mallett is a very good QB who is immobile (worse than Brady) but has a great pocket presence. He has the best arm by far of any QB the last 2 years. Tall, good arm. Remember what BB turned Cassel into in terms of currency for the Pats. This is a great, great pick, imo.

Teams like the 49ers and Packers back in the day always drafted QB's even when they had Montana and then Young, Favre, etc. Since the position is such a premium, having a quality young QB opens a lot of doors. Mallett pans out as a legit prospect, either he's the heir apparant or you flip him for more draft picks.

A good young QB is like an annuity. Look at what we got for Cassel. Could be the same situation.

That being said, the Ridley picks is a head scratcher. I guess BB really didn't like any of the pass rushers in this draft or has his heart set on someone in FA once the labor situation pans out

 

[Patsfaninpa]

Ridley will be our short-yardage back. And, an outstanding special teams players. We are now very young and versatile at rb; BJGE, Woodhead, Vereen and Ridley.

 

[Hawg73]

I love the Boston sports fan. But, they don't give a rat's arse about college football. Don't watch any of the games and then know everything about these players.

Just because BC is about the only program around doesn't mean that nobody around here follows college football. I watch as much as I can and try to keep an eye out for talent and know lots of BCS junkies. Untrue accusation.

I had Mallett the 2nd qb Hawg. Gabbert first, then him. Saw him at Michigan in 07 when PSU played up there. A couple of times last year. Wasn't sure how good he was. Was outstanding this year 64.7 pct 32 td's and 12 picks. Led Arkansas to a 10-2 regular season and narrow bowl loss to Ohio St. He played against; Auburn, Alabama, LSU, Tex a&m, Georgia, South Carolina, Mississippi St and Ohio St. Now, go look up who Jake Locker played against and his stats. And, Andy Dalton too. Playing a craptastic schedule.

That's about the best competition anyone faced. I think Arkansas was pretty good, but Mallett made them competitive against anyone. I watched him play maybe 5 times in the last two years and thought he would be a good pro right off the bat and that is unusual.

I saw him engineer a big 2nd half comeback against one of the above (I forget) and he really has some want-to in him. Some fire and competitiveness and plenty of talent. I've seen him heave up some bad balls under pressure, but arm-wise he was about as good as anyone you see at that level. He's going to need time to throw and to learn to slide in the pocket.

He gets the ball downfield with nice touch and accuracy. He sees the field well. I didn't know anything about the off-field stuff until this spring and still don't know whether he was just smoking some blunts or whatever. If so then big deal. I assumed it had to be crack or meth the way people were whispering, but if it was then he wouldn't be a Patriot this morning.

I always maintained he was the best QB in this crop and if we can help him grow up a little then I do believe that a team will respond to him on the field. He's kind of a goofy kid off the field at this point, but between the lines he seemed to be all business.

I hope he is royally pissed off at everybody that skipped over him and dedicates himself to growing up and proving they were all dead wrong.

If so we might have just landed one hell of a bargain.

 

[Patsfaninpa]

Just because BC is about the only program around doesn't mean that nobody around here follows college football. I watch as much as I can and try to keep an eye out for talent and know lots of BCS junkies. Untrue accusation.



That's about the best competition anyone faced. I think Arkansas was pretty good, but Mallett made them competitive against anyone. I watched him play maybe 5 times in the last two years and thought he would be a good pro right off the bat and that is unusual.

I saw him engineer a big 2nd half comeback against one of the above (I forget) and he really has some want-to in him. Some fire and competitiveness and plenty of talent. I've seen him heave up some bad balls under pressure, but arm-wise he was about as good as anyone you see at that level. He's going to need time to throw and to learn to slide in the pocket.

He gets the ball downfield with nice touch and accuracy. He sees the field well. I didn't know anything about the off-field stuff until this spring and still don't know whether he was just smoking some blunts or whatever. If so then big deal. I assumed it had to be crack or meth the way people were whispering, but if it was then he wouldn't be a Patriot this morning.

I always maintained he was the best QB in this crop and if we can help him grow up a little then I do believe that a team will respond to him on the field. He's kind of a goofy kid off the field at this point, but between the lines he seemed to be all business.

I hope he is royally pissed off at everybody that skipped over him and dedicates himself to growing up and proving they were all dead wrong.

If so we might have just landed one hell of a bargain.

I look at him as low-risk/high-reward. I doubt he ever plays for us unless TB gets hurt. But, if he keeps his nose(literally) clean for a couple of years and learns our system. His value will be a 1st round pick. A team needing a qb can trade for him a 6'6" kid who can sling it. I don't know if he's going to make it. But, I'd be willing to bet that; Ponder, Dalton and Locker can't cut the mustard in the NFL.

Sorry about the generalization. I'm sure you love it. But, I listen to some of the shows online. And, they never talk about college football. Nobody calls in about it. And, they dismiss it when it is brought up. I'm listening to these boobs on WBZ-FM. This is their analysis of the trade out of 28. Could have got Ingram. Instead only got the 56th pick. A rb who is lower on the board. Don't even mention the 1st round pick next year.

 

[Goldfishwars]

I don't know why you came to this conclusion. I don't see that.

Because we already have a young team, if you add 8+ draft picks to it, it becomes younger - plus you have to find space for that intake. I suppose that's one of the reasons BB is always transferring picks for next year.

 

[Jaric]

I like the conflict here:
"• Can get engulfed when massive blockers lock on
• Lacks power, not real stout and won't get big push"
with your highlighted part.

:rockon:

Well you have to say, it sounds like a colts DT, should be a good fit.

Well, I realize you're joking here midgar, but there is some truth to the statement. Our defense is not designed to have monster space eating defensive tackles clogging up the middle like yours is. It's designed for guys who are athletic and are able to get off blocks and cause disruption in the backfield. I know Chevess disagrees with me, but by all accounts Nevis seems to fit that bill.

Besides, as much as they poke and prod at these kids there is going to be something in the weakness side, especially guys available in the 3rd round.

 

[EasyBigFella]

Let's not forget that Ty Warren and Leigh Bodden are coming back too.

 

[WisColtFan7]

You find players that fit your needs, plain and simple, and Nevis fits the bill perfectly for the Dungy-2.

I wasn't exactly happy the Colts traded away a pick to move up in round 2, but they got a guy versatile enough to fill in at G or T. I said this over on Facebook: if they can get Stanzi and a safety today, its a perfect draft in my book.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Hawg73]

Well, I realize you're joking here midgar, but there is some truth to the statement. Our defense is not designed to have monster space eating defensive tackles clogging up the middle like yours is. It's designed for guys who are athletic and are able to get off blocks and cause disruption in the backfield. I know Chevess disagrees with me, but by all accounts Nevis seems to fit that bill.

Besides, as much as they poke and prod at these kids there is going to be something in the weakness side, especially guys available in the 3rd round.

Nevis is a perfect player for your system. He's hard to block, quick and disruptive inside.

I give Polian credit. He has possibly the most unusual defensive system in the league and he usually finds guys that can fit it and give other teams problems. And most of them nobody ever heard of.

It's the exact opposite of what we use, but when your guys aren't all on IR it can be pretty damn effective.

 

[mayoclinic]

Nevis is a perfect player for your system. He's hard to block, quick and disruptive inside.

I give Polian credit. He has possibly the most unusual defensive system in the league and he usually finds guys that can fit it and give other teams problems. And most of them nobody ever heard of.

It's the exact opposite of what we use, but when your guys aren't all on IR it can be pretty damn effective.

The Colts have had a perfect draft so far. Two solid players on the OL and a perfect DT for their system. Great job by Polian. Like the Pats, he knows his team and his system perfectly, and he doesn't deviate from taking the guys who are system fits. That's why those 2 teams have the best record in the NFL over the past decade.

 

[dchester]

Um, we still don't have a pass rush.

How about D line and a vertical threat on O? Unless they plan on converting Mallet to a WR.

Mallet is too slow to convert to WR, but maybe TE.



I actually think they are set at d-line. I did think they would take an OLB though, (or a DE they could convert). That's where they need to get the sacks from. I gave Cunningham an incomplete, for being hurt during training camp, so it's hard to know how much better he could be.

I still would like to see them get a deep threat WR, but maybe Tate will become that guy. We do still need more depth / insurance on the OL.

 

[AllWorldTE]

Ridley will develop into a fan favorite sooner rather than later. It's hard to dislike a RB who puts his pads down and finishes every run with his knees high while fighting for extra yards no matter where he was drafted. He looks like a kid just coming into his own.

 

[imapig]

Let's not forget that Ty Warren and Leigh Bodden are coming back too.

Thank God..ROFL

 

[Hawg73]

Ridley will develop into a fan favorite sooner rather than later. It's hard to dislike a RB who puts his pads down and finishes every run with his knees high while fighting for extra yards no matter where he was drafted. He looks like a kid just coming into his own.

Definitely a banger and he can move for a guy with his size. He generates a lot of force out there and hits the hole without a whole lot of internal conflict.

Vereen is quite different and isn't much of a tackle-breaker for such an accomplished weight room guy, but people have to get their hands on him first. He also gets into the holes quickly, but can be caught downfield.

I don't have much of a problem with a back that gets caught downfield as long as he gets there fairly often.

 

[patsfanroach]

Isn't kind of funny that there exists a wealth of talent and expertise sitting down at keyboards and monitors telling the rest of us how a team should use their draft choices and who they should pick?

After all, with talent like this, how come they are not in the war rooms throughout the NFL or hired by the teams for their scouting department?

Reality check. Thanks Ras. I love all of the real football knowledge here. I really do, but we all need to step back and remember that BB has won three SB rings and had the team in place for a 4th. There are THREE guys left from 2001-Brady, Light and Faulk and that could be ONE when this season starts. We have been SPOILED here over the last decade. BB knows more about football than all of the people on this board COMBINED! I have SOOOOO taken in too much Kool Aid. I am a homer. I have almost as many Patriot's jerseys as the team equipment manager. I love sports. I did not play football (125 pounds 5'6"). BUT football is by far my favorite sport and the Patriots are the only team I care about (admittedly I did like the 49ers in my youth as the Pats kind of blew for a while there). Until I had a child this fall I had not missed a snap (TV, radio or at the actual games) since 1997. (for the record I missed one series this year) I really love this team. BB brought SO much joy into my life and I am not going to turn my back on him now. I do not "get" all of the picks this year, but I am no expert either. I am just a fan...like most of you.

 

[mayoclinic]

Draftdaddy's Day 2 analysis of the Pats' picks:

NE Patriots!: overhauled their tailbacks with Cal's Shane Vereen and LSU's Stevan Ridley, got a QB for the future in Arkansas' Ryan Mallett, and a possible elite corner in Virginia's Ras-I Dowling. They won Friday night.

http://www.draftdaddy.com/blog/nfldraft.htm (entry for 4/30/11)