Game Day (Kinda!) Preseason Game 3 - NYG
- Thread starter Flagg the Wanderer
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I mean, he threw it behind and low to where it needed to be for Jakobi Meyers. It's absolutely Cam Newton's fault.
What's this based on, exactly?
Big/Sky/Fly
370hssv vw6!s tu36v
He can't catch a cold.
Big/Sky/Fly
370hssv vw6!s tu36v
sCam doesn't deserve starting imo...
As a receiver he is below Wilkerson and Zuber, as a punt returner he might be the best in the roster, but JJ Taylor is right behind him. He definitely has to be in the bubble.
If Olszewski is the best punt returner on the roster, then that's a pretty damning indictment of the punt return depth on the roster.
Some people want to make this guy Julian Edelman, and he's just not. And he's never going to be.
Steve1
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He was fine last season, and hasn't gone downhill as a punt returner during this training camp/preseason. I'll leave it up to
Bill Belichick, however.
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Wasn’t Gunner the best punt returner in the AFC last year? And it wasn’t even all that close?
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Flagg the Wanderer
Mourning Algernon
Okay, I have a few thoughts today:
This defense has the potential to be GREAT. The combination of the brains and coverage skills of the LB corps with the new-look DL is a BIG deal. KVN, High, Bentley and Judon can all cover. Judon is probably better deployed rushing, but he can cover. They are reading beautifully and covering underneath routes hook zones, and flats like a blanket. Combine that with the rush that is going to be generated on the Barmore/Uche/Judon side of the line - and I want to pause to note that they are still developing their chemistry and cohesion, their stunts and loops and games that will come with the mind-meld that will build - and you're going to have QBs that are going to have to force quick outs as their hot reads. You don't want to be doing that against opportunistic corners like Jackson and Gilmore. There are just not many OLs in the NFL where the OT/OG combo will be able to stand up to Barmore + Uche/Judon. That doesn't account for the fact that Godchaux will ALWAYS demand attention from the C, preventing him from helping, and the option of shooting KVN or High off the OG's butt, whether he blocks down on Godchaux or slants to Barmore. Give it a couple of weeks, and you're going to start to see an awful lot of teams playing TEs on the left side of the line and/or dedicating RBs to pass blocking on that side. Not only is that nullifying any advantages from that TE/RB as a receiver, but if GMs haven't put a premium on blocking ability in those roles, they will still be overmatched.
Wise looks to have developed a lot. Even if he hadn't, I would expect better-looking performance from him this year because of the attention that will be demanded by multiple other players.
Cannot believe I haven't even mentioned Lawrence Guy to date. Dude is just steady. Anderson and Davis both look strong. I had high hopes for Montravius Adams, but he hasn't really shown me much. Bill Murray has been a pleasant surprise, though mostly against 2s and 3s. Hmm. I'm looking at the DL group, and I see Guy, Godchaux, Barmore, Wise as locks. Strong cases could be made for Anderson, Davis, Murray, Winovich. Cowert and Bower can play. Adams can play, or at least he used to be able to. I wonder if someone in that second group - Anderson, Davis, Winovich? - gets traded today and we add a 5th or 6th rounder? I mean, since we're not getting any comp picks next year, right? Akeem Spence is terrible.
Shaun Wade and DeAngelo Ross both did some good things last night. How many CBs do we expect to keep, do you think? It's hard to tell if players were making the right reads and making the right drops, etc., without coach's film; we tend to only notice a DB's performance when the ball goes their way. But while Ross's INT was just a bad play by Daniel Jones, he popped off the screen a couple of other times and I wondered if he hadn't played himself onto a roster spot. Wade will presumably get a pass for mental mistakes concerning the scheme and his responsibilities, and if they're judging him just based on coverage skills it will be hard to cut him. He's got nasty closing speed in zone coverage. If the staff does think of him as a hybrid slot CB/S (and he has the size, plays the run and hits well enough to justify this) it will be even harder. Gilmore/Jackson/Jones/Mills/Wade/Ross/Williams...some good players are going to get cut. Of those, Mills and Wade could potentially play safety as well.
On the other hand, Jackson is done. He was probably done anyway, but he sealed it last night.
I wonder if Mac was pressing to try to "show something" last night. He was holding the ball significantly longer than he had been, and took what, four sacks? I wonder if he was trying to show that he's not just a game manager. And/or had stats on his mind when choosing not to throw the ball away when under pressure. He also missed a couple of open guys on plays where he was holding the ball. I know the announcers commented on at least one, and I noticed one (I think...can be tough without the All 22) when they didn't say anything. His numbers were better last night, but he didn't look as good to my eye.
On Cam's INT, count me with those who aren't putting the blame on him. Look at it this way: Myers caught that ball. If the LB doesn't take it away from him with absolutely perfect technique on a great play, the Cam backers would point to that throw as evidence that his arm/play is improved - using his arm strength to thread it into a tiny window. I don't think anyone in the stadium except the LB thought the LB was going to get deep enough on his drop to make that play. So with the (main) coverage behind Myers, that throw was "where only his WR could get to it." It's just that the LB had amazing technique with his hands, and took it away afterwards. Seriously, that was a split-second away from having to be scored as a completion and a strip.
That said, even when Cam is producing he doesn't look good. Crisp. He looks like he is generally in control of the offense, but not in command of it. I still want him to start, especially with (possibly imaginary) concerns about Mac's knee. Let the knee be the out that lets you give yourself permission to leave the kid on the bench, Bill. At least for a while. If he holds a clipboard for the first chunk of the year, he can play for the equivalent of a college season this year.
NYG has some good DBs and other coverage players, but our WRs were not creating good separation. I wonder if some of it was vanilla playcalling and not scheming for a particular defense or personnel. I hope so. I trust that Josh has something planned for creating some space on the outside and deep.
JJ Taylor looks good - explosive and dangerous - returning punts. That is bad news for Gunner, and possibly good news for Wilkerson. On a related note, I'm not sure we keep more than 4 WR (plus Slater). Harry can now be stashed on PUP, and some combination of Zuber/Wilkerson/Nixon/Gunner clear waivers to the PS, with one of those (not Nixon) on the active roster with WRs 1-3. I was really hoping Nixon would show something...
That right side of the OL is going to maul some people this year. And yet, by season's end I wonder if it won't be clear that Onwenu > Mason. And Onwenu => Thuney, even. We need Andrews back, but it could be worse than Karras. I wonder if Justin Herron will make the 53 - Cajuste is starting to look awfully strong. Redmond, Cunningham, Ferentz...are not. But Ferentz is all but assured a roster spot as our only flex IOL (AFAIK). What happened to the scuttle about Will Sherman being this year's Big Steal OL Steal? I'm asking because I honestly don't know - I literally haven't noticed him. Did he get hurt, or is his play just totally nondescript?
Asiasi finally showed something the staff must have seen to draft him so high. He still looks a little plodding, and I didn't pay attention to him as a blocker - I'll have to swing back and look for that at some point. I'm not sure his play justifies making a point of deploying him in 12 personnel terribly often, but he looks viable this year. I'll feel better if we can get/keep Henry on the field. On the other hand Asiasi is most definitely benefitting from all these snaps and game reps.
This defense has the potential to be GREAT. The combination of the brains and coverage skills of the LB corps with the new-look DL is a BIG deal. KVN, High, Bentley and Judon can all cover. Judon is probably better deployed rushing, but he can cover. They are reading beautifully and covering underneath routes hook zones, and flats like a blanket. Combine that with the rush that is going to be generated on the Barmore/Uche/Judon side of the line - and I want to pause to note that they are still developing their chemistry and cohesion, their stunts and loops and games that will come with the mind-meld that will build - and you're going to have QBs that are going to have to force quick outs as their hot reads. You don't want to be doing that against opportunistic corners like Jackson and Gilmore. There are just not many OLs in the NFL where the OT/OG combo will be able to stand up to Barmore + Uche/Judon. That doesn't account for the fact that Godchaux will ALWAYS demand attention from the C, preventing him from helping, and the option of shooting KVN or High off the OG's butt, whether he blocks down on Godchaux or slants to Barmore. Give it a couple of weeks, and you're going to start to see an awful lot of teams playing TEs on the left side of the line and/or dedicating RBs to pass blocking on that side. Not only is that nullifying any advantages from that TE/RB as a receiver, but if GMs haven't put a premium on blocking ability in those roles, they will still be overmatched.
Wise looks to have developed a lot. Even if he hadn't, I would expect better-looking performance from him this year because of the attention that will be demanded by multiple other players.
Cannot believe I haven't even mentioned Lawrence Guy to date. Dude is just steady. Anderson and Davis both look strong. I had high hopes for Montravius Adams, but he hasn't really shown me much. Bill Murray has been a pleasant surprise, though mostly against 2s and 3s. Hmm. I'm looking at the DL group, and I see Guy, Godchaux, Barmore, Wise as locks. Strong cases could be made for Anderson, Davis, Murray, Winovich. Cowert and Bower can play. Adams can play, or at least he used to be able to. I wonder if someone in that second group - Anderson, Davis, Winovich? - gets traded today and we add a 5th or 6th rounder? I mean, since we're not getting any comp picks next year, right? Akeem Spence is terrible.
Shaun Wade and DeAngelo Ross both did some good things last night. How many CBs do we expect to keep, do you think? It's hard to tell if players were making the right reads and making the right drops, etc., without coach's film; we tend to only notice a DB's performance when the ball goes their way. But while Ross's INT was just a bad play by Daniel Jones, he popped off the screen a couple of other times and I wondered if he hadn't played himself onto a roster spot. Wade will presumably get a pass for mental mistakes concerning the scheme and his responsibilities, and if they're judging him just based on coverage skills it will be hard to cut him. He's got nasty closing speed in zone coverage. If the staff does think of him as a hybrid slot CB/S (and he has the size, plays the run and hits well enough to justify this) it will be even harder. Gilmore/Jackson/Jones/Mills/Wade/Ross/Williams...some good players are going to get cut. Of those, Mills and Wade could potentially play safety as well.
On the other hand, Jackson is done. He was probably done anyway, but he sealed it last night.
I wonder if Mac was pressing to try to "show something" last night. He was holding the ball significantly longer than he had been, and took what, four sacks? I wonder if he was trying to show that he's not just a game manager. And/or had stats on his mind when choosing not to throw the ball away when under pressure. He also missed a couple of open guys on plays where he was holding the ball. I know the announcers commented on at least one, and I noticed one (I think...can be tough without the All 22) when they didn't say anything. His numbers were better last night, but he didn't look as good to my eye.
On Cam's INT, count me with those who aren't putting the blame on him. Look at it this way: Myers caught that ball. If the LB doesn't take it away from him with absolutely perfect technique on a great play, the Cam backers would point to that throw as evidence that his arm/play is improved - using his arm strength to thread it into a tiny window. I don't think anyone in the stadium except the LB thought the LB was going to get deep enough on his drop to make that play. So with the (main) coverage behind Myers, that throw was "where only his WR could get to it." It's just that the LB had amazing technique with his hands, and took it away afterwards. Seriously, that was a split-second away from having to be scored as a completion and a strip.
That said, even when Cam is producing he doesn't look good. Crisp. He looks like he is generally in control of the offense, but not in command of it. I still want him to start, especially with (possibly imaginary) concerns about Mac's knee. Let the knee be the out that lets you give yourself permission to leave the kid on the bench, Bill. At least for a while. If he holds a clipboard for the first chunk of the year, he can play for the equivalent of a college season this year.
NYG has some good DBs and other coverage players, but our WRs were not creating good separation. I wonder if some of it was vanilla playcalling and not scheming for a particular defense or personnel. I hope so. I trust that Josh has something planned for creating some space on the outside and deep.
JJ Taylor looks good - explosive and dangerous - returning punts. That is bad news for Gunner, and possibly good news for Wilkerson. On a related note, I'm not sure we keep more than 4 WR (plus Slater). Harry can now be stashed on PUP, and some combination of Zuber/Wilkerson/Nixon/Gunner clear waivers to the PS, with one of those (not Nixon) on the active roster with WRs 1-3. I was really hoping Nixon would show something...
That right side of the OL is going to maul some people this year. And yet, by season's end I wonder if it won't be clear that Onwenu > Mason. And Onwenu => Thuney, even. We need Andrews back, but it could be worse than Karras. I wonder if Justin Herron will make the 53 - Cajuste is starting to look awfully strong. Redmond, Cunningham, Ferentz...are not. But Ferentz is all but assured a roster spot as our only flex IOL (AFAIK). What happened to the scuttle about Will Sherman being this year's Big Steal OL Steal? I'm asking because I honestly don't know - I literally haven't noticed him. Did he get hurt, or is his play just totally nondescript?
Asiasi finally showed something the staff must have seen to draft him so high. He still looks a little plodding, and I didn't pay attention to him as a blocker - I'll have to swing back and look for that at some point. I'm not sure his play justifies making a point of deploying him in 12 personnel terribly often, but he looks viable this year. I'll feel better if we can get/keep Henry on the field. On the other hand Asiasi is most definitely benefitting from all these snaps and game reps.
Mazz22
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How come you dislike Gunner Tommy? I think he is a great PR. I think he led the league in return yards last year.
In terms of Edelman, I agree. There is only one Julian. The only think I would say is Gunner has Cam. When Mac has been in there, they have had a nice connection. Reminiscent of early shades of Brady/Amendola IMO.
Hawg73
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Tommy, tommy. I answered this the last time you asked, but you never responded and I'm still curious, so I'll give it another shot.
Gunner had a 17.3 average which was way more than the next best guy. He had one TD and one called back on a bogus call, which
seems pretty good to me.
What would he need to do to impress you as a punt returner? I didn't look it up, but I know that is a massive average.
This play more or less went unnoticed since we now know JJ Taylor is a weapon, but jeez!
Mazz22
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Harry Douglas breaks down Cam's interception. Really insightful. Says Giants disguised Tampa 2 defense meaning a LB was on Meyers. Douglas does not understand why Cam was back shouldering the ball to Meyers when he was matched up vs a LB. I have not heard this before about the play. Douglas talked a lot about recognition and how Cam needs to get better. But we already knew this.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERGiASI8kQE
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERGiASI8kQE
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Well, he sorta has to, doesn't he. I mean that's about all he can do.
spacecrime
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Geez, Señor Snark, no one said you were wrong about what you said, someone simply gave gave a different opinion on the same play. A third person might note that Bourne was hidden behind a big body. I can't believe you ares still upset over this one play from a preseason game.
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I suspect it isn't about one play in a preseason game. I suspect it's all about him.
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