How does Mac Jones compare with other QB's?
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Name-calling??
It has happen from both sides. Some topics people are just not able to discuss rationally regardless of what the topic is.
Who the hell determines that it's good enough? Just because you have a bunch of assumptions and theories on how it could be good enough doesn't mean your right, nor does mean you get to set the terms of how long a topic should be discussed or in what context. You actually say in your comments that, "we've already discussed it at length, come to the conclusion it's not a huge issue and that in time Mac's arm strength will improve just like Brady's did. Problem solved." This, not to mention you are making these statements in thread that calls for direct comparison of Mac's skills to other QB's. Who the hell do you think you are?
Any update here? I would like to review Jones' INTs outside the numbers that you are referring to.
she won't update. she likely copy pasted that entire comment verbatim from somewhere and has 0 to back it up.
Since I don't expect to get a thoughtful reply, I went ahead and looked into Jones' INTs from week 9 and onward myself. From week 9 and beyond Jones threw 9 interceptions (including the wild-card game against BUF).
Week 9, Carolina:
I think we can all agree that Mac can afford to improve his arm-speed, ball velocity, and ability to drive the ball downfield. I also think Mac needs to work on ball trajectory, and try to ensure the nose of the ball is pointed down on shorter throws so that if he misses it's an incompletion rather than an interception (this is one of Brady's unique skills, although it has its shortcomings since it sometimes prevents the receiver from catching the ball in-stride).
What I do not think is cool is throwing out vague, ambiguous claims like, "He has issues driving the ball consistently outside the numbers. You saw this during the second half of the season when defenses took away the middle and he was forced to go outside. Look at his INTs the second half of the season to see the result", and then being unwilling to provide evidence to support this claim. As it turns out, when the claim is critically analyzed, it is demonstrated to be untrue. Had the person making the claim actually done their homework, they would've realized the claim they made is not true. You can still think that Mac needs to improve his arm velocity without the need to fabricate evidence in order to support that thought.
Week 9, Carolina:
- Intercepted by Gilmore on a quick slant. Not outside the numbers nor downfield.
- Intercepted Terrell Jr on a seam route. Didn't do a great job driving the ball, but this was more of an issue of being late and misreading the coverage (Harry was wide open in the flat, while Jones tried to force it to Jonnu up the seam). Not outside the numbers.
- The first interception was purely a misread, where Jones lost track of Leonard. It was a short route over the middle, not downfield nor outside the numbers.
- The second interception was mostly an exceptional play by the defender, who caught the INT while diving. Jones was a bit late and missed inside. The throw itself seemed to have zip on it, was thrown flat, and only travelled 12 yards in the air. It was in fact outside the numbers, but it was a throw to Bolden and the INT had more to do with Okereke making an exceptional play and Jones throwing a bit too far inside and late. Throwing the ball with more velocity may have prevented the interception, but so would have timing and ball placement. The pass itself did not travel more than 15 yards in the air -- it was not a downfield throw IMO.
- The first interception came off a tip. The ball was thrown flat, over the middle, within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. A LB tipped the ball and it fell to a DB in the backfield. The throw was not downfield nor outside the numbers.
- The second interception was a hail-mary on 4th & 10 with 1 minute to play. Jones threw the ball 55+ yards in the air downfield and it was intercepted. This was not outside the numbers and was not a particularly competitive play in the game.
- The interception happened due to a misread. It was not a downfield throw as the ball didn't travel more than 10 yards in the air. Jones thought Miami was in man coverage, but Howard fell off his man and sat in a flat-zone.
- The first interception was a phenomenal play by Hyde. A little more depth on the throw might have prevented the INT, but this was more a matter of an incredible play by Hyde. It was outside the numbers and downfield, but it was a lofted pass, not a driven one.
- The second interception was not downfield nor outside the numbers. It was a 5-yard quick out to Henry. The LB had good coverage and the throw was a bit inside. The ball was tipped and fell into a DB's lap. This wasn't a driven, downfield throw. The interception was the result of good coverage and Jones throwing a bit behind/inside.
I think we can all agree that Mac can afford to improve his arm-speed, ball velocity, and ability to drive the ball downfield. I also think Mac needs to work on ball trajectory, and try to ensure the nose of the ball is pointed down on shorter throws so that if he misses it's an incompletion rather than an interception (this is one of Brady's unique skills, although it has its shortcomings since it sometimes prevents the receiver from catching the ball in-stride).
What I do not think is cool is throwing out vague, ambiguous claims like, "He has issues driving the ball consistently outside the numbers. You saw this during the second half of the season when defenses took away the middle and he was forced to go outside. Look at his INTs the second half of the season to see the result", and then being unwilling to provide evidence to support this claim. As it turns out, when the claim is critically analyzed, it is demonstrated to be untrue. Had the person making the claim actually done their homework, they would've realized the claim they made is not true. You can still think that Mac needs to improve his arm velocity without the need to fabricate evidence in order to support that thought.
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Mazz22
A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies.
Off the top of my head, here are the two most glaring from the second half of the season.
View: https://twitter.com/Colts/status/1472396868579643397?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1472396868579643397%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fboston.cbslocal.com%2F2021%2F12%2F18%2Fmac-jones-throws-two-interceptions-patriots-colts%2F
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrBH8FwGHi8
Big/Sky/Fly
370hssv vw6!s tu36v
He hit the rookie wall that time...some of it is that.
Mazz22
A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies.
Possibly but I think more of it was DCs figured him out.
Big/Sky/Fly
370hssv vw6!s tu36v
That's possible...he's going to get better, I fully expect that.
imo can't truly judge a qb until after his third year starting. loose timeline.
year 1: take league by surprise
year 2: dcs take away what you do best, struggles
year 3: you show what you have been able to do to counteract that and become a great all around player.
year 1: take league by surprise
year 2: dcs take away what you do best, struggles
year 3: you show what you have been able to do to counteract that and become a great all around player.
I'm a reasonable football fan who has been a fan and hobbyist since growing up in the shadow of Denny Stadium and Bear Bryant. I was born into a football crazy family. The first game I was taken to as a child had Bart Starr as QB for Bama when I was 5 yrs old. I still have a picture of him with my family on that day. I've followed football ever since. I remember every QB Bama had ever since...and I remember them well. From Pat Trammel to Namath to Stabler all the way to Mac and Bryce Young. I became a Pats fan the day they drafted John Hannah and I've been a Pats fan ever since.
That's who I am.
I've seen plenty of good QBs and bad ones. Mac is a good one. He proved it at Bama and he proved it this year as a rookie.
Now who the hell are you to ask me who I think I am?
@Grogan: What is your ideal outcome as a result of this conversation?
Are you attempting to convince others that Mac Jones' arm could afford to get stronger and that it's an area of his game to improve upon right now? I don't think you'll get much of an argument from anyone on that front.
Are you attempting to convince others that Mac Jones' arm is not strong enough and will never be? I don't see how anyone has anyway of knowing that at this point in time.
Beyond that, what is there here to discuss? Either one thinks Jones' arm is plenty strong as is or it could afford to get stronger. I (and most) fall into the latter camp.
If one falls into the latter camp, they either think that Mac will improve his arm strength, or he won't, or they don't know. The answer to that question remains to be seen.
Why the need to continue going on about this and antagonizing other posters in the process of doing so?
Are you attempting to convince others that Mac Jones' arm could afford to get stronger and that it's an area of his game to improve upon right now? I don't think you'll get much of an argument from anyone on that front.
Are you attempting to convince others that Mac Jones' arm is not strong enough and will never be? I don't see how anyone has anyway of knowing that at this point in time.
Beyond that, what is there here to discuss? Either one thinks Jones' arm is plenty strong as is or it could afford to get stronger. I (and most) fall into the latter camp.
If one falls into the latter camp, they either think that Mac will improve his arm strength, or he won't, or they don't know. The answer to that question remains to be seen.
Why the need to continue going on about this and antagonizing other posters in the process of doing so?
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crawhammer
Assclown
That's the sort of response Grogan is talking about... whoever this is calling me obtuse. Am I supposed to just let every insult go unanswered?
As for mocking my poll, it's pretty transparent what I was doing there, which I assumed any halfwit could figure out. The list/ranking I offered was the real jumping point for discussion, not the poll, which is just an obvious list of quarterbacks that pretty much everyone outside of New England would agree have more potential than Jones.
This is a bit arrogant. Like some committee here 1) decides what's relevant for debate and for how long and 2) that Mac's arm strength will improve just like Brady's. I know he moved onto Tampa Bay but have you seen Brady throw a football lately? Even at age 44 the velocity on his throws is quite noticeably faster than Mac's. Even with above expectation improvement Jones is very unlikely to approach Brady's peak arm strength.
This was a hideous pick.
This was his most costly. Effectively ended their season.
AkPatsFan
Well-known member
That's a lie, you didn't join this conversation until about page 3, I went back and looked at every post where you were quoted and I saw zero posts where someone called you a name.
aloyouis
at least generally aware
Thank you your wonderful greatness. Please also enlighten us with tonights winning lottery numbers while you have your crystal ball out.
You must be so rich!
aloyouis
at least generally aware
I'm the guy that doesn't give a shit who you are, or the fact that you clearly think you know more than anyone else on the subject. The irony is I truly hope you're correct on all counts, but I'm not going to have you or anyone else dictate what valid discussion is on the matter. That's who I am.
aloyouis
at least generally aware
Mac combined year 1 and 2 of you example into the first year.
You're the one claiming to have crystal ball, you know for a fact that Mac is going to become a great QB? T
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