Patriots Offensive Line

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DropKickFlutie said:
It’s interesting to find when it happened as multiple people were commenting on his lower velocity in the game. I thought he had increased arm strength working with Tom House so I would assume poor throws were due to toughing it out after big hits taken during the game.
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It didn't seem like Mac's throwing had much oomph...he was still under throwing it a few times. But, it might be because he's hurt. Not sure.
 
DropKickFlutie said:
This is pretty misleading then because wasn’t the very first drive sack totally on Strange missing his assignment. And I’m pretty sure the fumble TD was on Hunter Henry as there’s no way Trent should be taking that outside rusher that far away (or the blocking scheme is broken and needs to be fixed)
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There wasn't a sack on the first drive. I don't have video to go back to, but the first sack of the game was by Ogbah, who is typically at RDE. So maybe if he slashed inside, or maybe it appeared to be Strange's fault because of an error by Brown letting him release?

I agree with your second point. It looks like Henry was slated for a delayed release, which would almost certainly mean he should be chipping an outside blitzer. But he was focused inside (looks like reading the coverage) from before the CB started creeping to the LOS, and never got his head around to look outside. Blitzer was past his left shoulder before he even got his head turned to look straight. One of those things that you'd see in peripheral vision of you weren't wearing a helmet, but damned of those things aren't mandatory...
It looked to me like Brown did the right thing (if you assume that Henry should have chipped to force the blitzing CB too wide to have a clean run at Mac) in guiding the crashing DE into the pile with Strange, Andrews, and another DL and making him essentially useless on the play. If that sack got charged to Brown, I think that was bad grading.
 
Flagg the Wanderer said:
There wasn't a sack on the first drive. I don't have video to go back to, but the first sack of the game was by Ogbah, who is typically at RDE. So maybe if he slashed inside, or maybe it appeared to be Strange's fault because of an error by Brown letting him release?

I agree with your second point. It looks like Henry was slated for a delayed release, which would almost certainly mean he should be chipping an outside blitzer. But he was focused inside (looks like reading the coverage) from before the CB started creeping to the LOS, and never got his head around to look outside. Blitzer was past his left shoulder before he even got his head turned to look straight. One of those things that you'd see in peripheral vision of you weren't wearing a helmet, but damned of those things aren't mandatory...
It looked to me like Brown did the right thing (if you assume that Henry should have chipped to force the blitzing CB too wide to have a clean run at Mac) in guiding the crashing DE into the pile with Strange, Andrews, and another DL and making him essentially useless on the play. If that sack got charged to Brown, I think that was bad grading.
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OK thanks. I respect your football opinion. I seem to remember Lazar or Reiss or Perry, noting how Strange immediately sat down a couple series after this sack, and also that it was a blown assignment by Strange. I'd have to go back and look if there's a clip. it happened fast so I didn't really pay attention to who messed up on the first sack. But Strange was immediately benched for 2 series after that one, in a coincidence I guess.
 
DropKickFlutie said:
OK thanks. I respect your football opinion. I seem to remember Lazar or Reiss or Perry, noting how Strange immediately sat down a couple series after this sack, and also that it was a blown assignment by Strange. I'd have to go back and look if there's a clip. it happened fast so I didn't really pay attention to who messed up on the first sack. But Strange was immediately benched for 2 series after that one, in a coincidence I guess.
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Again, I don't have the video available and I don't have a specific memory of the play, as we were having trouble with access through much of the first quarter.

It can be hard to know what the assignments were, and I'll note that I just heard Matt Cassell say pretty emphatically that he thought the strip sack was on Brown, not Henry. That surprised me, but I'd take his opinion over mine.
 
Flagg the Wanderer said:
Again, I don't have the video available and I don't have a specific memory of the play, as we were having trouble with access through much of the first quarter.

It can be hard to know what the assignments were, and I'll note that I just heard Matt Cassell say pretty emphatically that he thought the strip sack was on Brown, not Henry. That surprised me, but I'd take his opinion over mine.
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Yeah me too, I heard Cassel say the same thing on that show w TJohnson. But I’ve also seen others say it was on Henry to chip or stay in, no way Trent should get that guy. And for Strange it was a separate play. Surprising as I was worries about the right side going in but some of the worst plays came from the left OLine
 
I said this in the other thread, but the line is far from the worst problem on offense. Look around the league. Plenty of teams are making due with far worse, despite strange being a waste of a second round pick.

They aren’t as good as last year, but the problem on offense is a total lack of high end talent at the skill positions, and awful coaching.
 
rivshark86 said:
I said this in the other thread, but the line is far from the worst problem on offense. Look around the league. Plenty of teams are making due with far worse, despite strange being a waste of a second round pick.

They aren’t as good as last year, but the problem on offense is a total lack of high end talent at the skill positions, and awful coaching.
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strange being a waste of a second round pick.
They aren’t as good as last year
total lack of high end talent at the skill positions
awful coaching

Got it. Thanks.

Copy the above 4 lines into a note. Paste it into every post you make on here going forward. Save yourself (and everyone else) a little time.
 
Flagg the Wanderer said:
There wasn't a sack on the first drive. I don't have video to go back to, but the first sack of the game was by Ogbah, who is typically at RDE. So maybe if he slashed inside, or maybe it appeared to be Strange's fault because of an error by Brown letting him release?

I agree with your second point. It looks like Henry was slated for a delayed release, which would almost certainly mean he should be chipping an outside blitzer. But he was focused inside (looks like reading the coverage) from before the CB started creeping to the LOS, and never got his head around to look outside. Blitzer was past his left shoulder before he even got his head turned to look straight. One of those things that you'd see in peripheral vision of you weren't wearing a helmet, but damned of those things aren't mandatory...
It looked to me like Brown did the right thing (if you assume that Henry should have chipped to force the blitzing CB too wide to have a clean run at Mac) in guiding the crashing DE into the pile with Strange, Andrews, and another DL and making him essentially useless on the play. If that sack got charged to Brown, I think that was bad grading.
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I read this too fast last time. Yes agree Henry should have chipped. In general I think Henry should stay in and block more (except for red zone). Henry has always been a solid blocker, a better blocker than Jonnu in my opinion. Jonnu would thrive more on screens, quick outs, and even placed out wide. If the defense put a tiny CB on Jonnu out wide then let him bulldoze a guy for several yards. Or if a bigger defender rolls out wide to cover Jonnu, Pats can power run inside against a thinner defense.
 
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rivshark86 said:
I said this in the other thread, but the line is far from the worst problem on offense. Look around the league. Plenty of teams are making due with far worse, despite strange being a waste of a second round pick.

They aren’t as good as last year, but the problem on offense is a total lack of high end talent at the skill positions, and awful coaching.
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Thornton hurt isn't helping things.

Parker isn't showing much. It's just the first game though.
 
Big/Sky/Fly said:
Thornton hurt isn't helping things.

Parker isn't showing much.
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I’m not a big fan of both Parker nor Agholor. Agholor is overpaid and Parker actually has always had a poor catch rate his entire pro career. And adding Parker bumped Bourne who is one of their best receivers. Pats should have worried more about their OLine instead of overstack too many receivers and too many strong safeties.
 
DropKickFlutie said:
I’m not a big fan of both Parker nor Agholor. Agholor is overpaid and Parker actually has always had a poor catch rate his entire pro career. And adding Parker bumped Bourne who is one of their best receivers. Pats should have worried more about their OLine instead of overstack too many receivers and too many strong safeties.
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Bourne was/is in the doghouse with BB and the coaching staff.
 
Big/Sky/Fly said:
Bourne was/is in the doghouse with BB and the coaching staff.
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I dont blame Bourne because it seems to me like Bourne would know more about high performing pro NFL offenses than Fatt Matt or Judge
 
Big/Sky/Fly said:
It's most likely a combination of things...
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I was thinking, I’m definitely with Bourne on this for a couple reasons:
  • I’m still salty over Butler being benched and the Eagles never punting all game in that Superbowl loss. So if Fatt Matt is a common denominator here then I’m totally with Bourne
  • It’s really hypocritical to tell an outgoing positive locker room guy like Bourne to shut up, especially when the Pats have had a ton of loudmouths in the past now all over TV media these days (Bruschi, McGinest, Rodney, Randy Moss). You’re telling me Gronk wasn’t a total clown in the locker room?

It’s crazy to bench one of their best receivers in Bourne to overplay snaps to Montgomery, Parker, and Agholor
 
DropKickFlutie said:
Similar to how a prized talent like Mac can possibly get screwed up this year due to weird scheme changes, you have an all pro level blocker in Onwenu at risk of getting completely screwed up by not solidifying him at right tackle immediately
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Should seng
DropKickFlutie said:
OK thanks. I respect your football opinion. I seem to remember Lazar or Reiss or Perry, noting how Strange immediately sat down a couple series after this sack, and also that it was a blown assignment by Strange. I'd have to go back and look if there's a clip. it happened fast so I didn't really pay attention to who messed up on the first sack. But Strange was immediately benched for 2 series after that one, in a coincidence I guess.
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And I respect all your opinions, Flag.:hello:
 
DropKickFlutie said:
OK thanks. I respect your football opinion. I seem to remember Lazar or Reiss or Perry, noting how Strange immediately sat down a couple series after this sack, and also that it was a blown assignment by Strange. I'd have to go back and look if there's a clip. it happened fast so I didn't really pay attention to who messed up on the first sack. But Strange was immediately benched for 2 series after that one, in a coincidence I guess.
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I noticed Ferentz going in for Strange after the play where (I think) he messed up his assignment, but they were rotating guys due to the heat, so we can't really assume it was a
spanking for the big rookie who, despite rumors to the contrary, is not a waste of a draft pick. I expect Billy Yates did go over to Cole and make sure he had things straight, assuming
Billy himself knows. Perhaps those that can't do really can teach, but when Yates was an OL here, he made Justin Herron look like Walter Jones.

I see Cole Strange as well ahead of the curve of what we could reasonably expect from him, even if he did mentally fuck up there. Play in and play out he's getting his job done. He's going
to be outstanding in time.
 
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