2020 Draft

[1970Dart]

I cannot see 10 wins with that schedule, everything would have to go perfect. No injuries, everyone works out and are good and that just does not happen. I have them with about 8 wins this year. There is just huge differences that the team never had to face before with this current team.

Adversity reveals ones character, will they rise to the occasion and answer the bell? Or will crumble? I think there are too many leaders on the team still to allow this team to fail. I may be wrong and I am at peace with that..lol

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I’m closer to 8 than 10 myself.

Coaching defections.

Questions on Offense.

A rookie QB.

Defense that lost some critical guys, to be filled with rooks likely.

Division teams got solid pieces in the draft and gave us trouble last year. Finally a legit chance for them to unseat the stranglehold on the division.

One of the tougher league schedules I’ve seen.

 

[chevss454]

I'd be very happy with 8 wins.

 

[mikiemo83]

16-0


I can never pick my team to lose

not even in the Dick McPherson days could I pick anything but 16-0

 

[grog]

I remember 2001 like it was less than 20 years ago.

That year, we had started to build a good defense and our offense was ok, even with Drew at QB. When we won the whole thing, I remember one of the smarter posters here, I'm thinking Oswelk or somebody like that, very similar to chevvs, say that the 2001 team was "ahead of schedule" in the development into a Super Bowl contender. The defense had gotten stronger and the offense gelled much better than the experts thought they would.

I'm thinking a repeat is in order for this year. With the veteran leadership and the new young talent from the draft and redshirt years for some of the last year class, we come on strong this year and really piss off the world.

I'm looking forward to people saying - could it get any worse, they year starts off with coronavirus and ends with the Patriots looking like strong contenders for another title.

Now excuse me while I go back to my unlocked liquor cabinet.

 

[Patriots71]

Adversity reveals ones character, will they rise to the occasion and answer the bell? Or will crumble? I think there are too many leaders on the team still to allow this team to fail. I may be wrong and I am at peace with that..lol

Ok, sure, but you have to have the players. Its not just about how much you want to win. Players have to make plays, thats it in its most simple form.

---------- Post added at 01:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 PM ----------

I remember 2001 like it was less than 20 years ago.

That year, we had started to build a good defense and our offense was ok, even with Drew at QB. When we won the whole thing, I remember one of the smarter posters here, I'm thinking Oswelk or somebody like that, very similar to chevvs, say that the 2001 team was "ahead of schedule" in the development into a Super Bowl contender. The defense had gotten stronger and the offense gelled much better than the experts thought they would.

I'm thinking a repeat is in order for this year. With the veteran leadership and the new young talent from the draft and redshirt years for some of the last year class, we come on strong this year and really piss off the world.

I'm looking forward to people saying - could it get any worse, they year starts off with coronavirus and ends with the Patriots looking like strong contenders for another title.

Now excuse me while I go back to my unlocked liquor cabinet.

Different times, and we did start 0-2 when Bledsoe went down, and maybe they gelled around that. No way to know.

 

[1970Dart]

Ok, sure, but you have to have the players. Its not just about how much you want to win. Players have to make plays, thats it in its most simple form.

---------- Post added at 01:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 PM ----------





Different times, and we did start 0-2 when Bledsoe went down, and maybe they gelled around that. No way to know.

You're going by the assumption that players won't improve though. We still have a very good OL and very solid stable of RB's. Good WR's (this is where I think we will improve from year 1 to now). And the defense is still very good, the secondary is intact. The LB's may be a question mark right now but I still think we have a competitive team.

 

[John Locke]

Ok, sure, but you have to have the players. Its not just about how much you want to win. Players have to make plays, thats it in its most simple form.

---------- Post added at 01:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 PM ----------

Not necessarily true and 2001 proved that out. Far less talented team than the Rams.

After that incredibly epic win, I sent BB a thank you note, partially for the win but mostly because he changed my approach to my company.

I owned a painting company for many years and always hired the most talented painters but they were straight divas and killed productivity.

I learned my lesson from that year in 2001.

Bring in capable people that want to excel and succeed and had a fire in their belly for it. Screw the the talented divas.

I went on to have one hell of a successful career with that gameplan.

 

[foobahl]

Offensive Starters
QB Tom Brady* 24 1 14 264 for 413, 2,843 yards, 18 td, 12 int, & 36 rushes for 43 yards and 0 td New England Patriots / 6th / 199th pick / 2000
RB Antowain Smith 29 4 15 287 rushes for 1,157 yards, 12 td, & 19 catches for 192 yards and 1 td Buffalo Bills / 1st / 23rd pick / 1997
WR Troy Brown* 30 8 13 101 catches for 1,199 yards, 5 td, & 11 rushes for 91 yards and 0 td New England Patriots / 8th / 198th pick / 1993
WR David Patten 27 4 14 51 catches for 749 yards, 4 td, & 5 rushes for 67 yards and 1 td
TE Rod Rutledge 26 3 14 5 catches for 35 yards, 0 td New England Patriots / 2nd / 54th pick / 1998
T Matt Light 23 Rook 12 New England Patriots / 2nd / 48th pick / 2001
T Greg Randall 23 1 16 New England Patriots / 4th / 127th pick / 2000
LG Mike Compton 31 8 16 Detroit Lions / 3rd / 68th pick / 1993
C Damien Woody 24 2 15 1 fumble recovered New England Patriots / 1st / 17th pick / 1999
RG Joe Andruz

---------- Post added at 07:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 AM ----------

2001 Offensive starters. At that point not exactly a murderers row.

---------- Post added at 07:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 AM ----------

And if I got the year wrong the 2000 starters:

Offensive Starters
QB Drew Bledsoe 28 7 16 312 for 531, 3,291 yards, 17 td, 13 int, & 47 rushes for 158 yards and 2 td New England Patriots / 1st / 1st pick / 1993
RB Kevin Faulk 24 1 9 164 rushes for 570 yards, 4 td, & 51 catches for 465 yards and 1 td New England Patriots / 2nd / 46th pick / 1999
FB Tony Carter 28 6 6 37 rushes for 90 yards, 2 td, & 9 catches for 73 yards and 0 td
WR Troy Brown 29 7 15 83 catches for 944 yards, 4 td, & 6 rushes for 46 yards and 0 td New England Patriots / 8th / 198th pick / 1993
WR Terry Glenn 26 4 16 79 catches for 963 yards, 6 td, & 4 rushes for 39 yards and 0 td New England Patriots / 1st / 7th pick / 1996
TE Rod Rutledge 25 2 11 15 catches for 103 yards, 1 td New England Patriots / 2nd / 54th pick / 1998
LT Bruce Armstrong 35 13 16 New England Patriots / 1st / 23rd pick / 1987
LG Joe Andruzzi 25 2 11 1 fumble recovered
C Damien Woody 23 1 16 New England Patriots / 1st / 17th pick / 1999
RG Sale Isaia 28 4 14 1 fumble recovered
RT Gra

 

[spacecrime]

16-0

I can never pick my team to lose.

not even in the Dick McPherson days could I pick anything but 16-0

Ditto. I look at the schedule each year and look at each game individually and
sure enough I see there is a chance to win each game. The trick is to not say undefeated, but is there a chance that they could win this one individual game? And ask it 16 separate times.

So you're telling me there's a chance

With Rod Rust I was only off by 15 wins.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

You're going by the assumption that players won't improve though. We still have a very good OL and very solid stable of RB's. Good WR's (this is where I think we will improve from year 1 to now). And the defense is still very good, the secondary is intact. The LB's may be a question mark right now but I still think we have a competitive team.

Do we?

The OLine SHOULD be ok if healthy and Thuney signed.

RB? Do we have a lunch pail guy to tote the rock in a ball control power offense? Who? Maybe Harris. But I view the other 3 as complimentary backs in a passing offense. There’s no Antowain Smith/Corey Dillon there.

WRs? Last in the league in seperation. First in drops. Hmmmm.....

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

I'd be very happy with 8 wins.

If they're going to be bad, they should just be awesome at it. Awesomely bad.

 

[1970Dart]

Do we?

The OLine SHOULD be ok if healthy and Thuney signed.

RB? Do we have a lunch pail guy to tote the rock in a ball control power offense? Who? Maybe Harris. But I view the other 3 as complimentary backs in a passing offense. There’s no Antowain Smith/Corey Dillon there.

WRs? Last in the league in seperation. First in drops. Hmmmm.....[/QUOTE

Michel is a decent back, so is Burkhead, Bolden and White. The running game wasn't used nearly as much as it should have been used. The OL got decimated with injury last year as well. Newhouse was a turnstile. If the OL can stay healthy, that will help the running game and passing game. This is the same OL prior to last year that allowed 21 sacks. It's a solid unit, when healthy. That's the big part of it.

Sanu, Harry and Meyers, new system and there was a lot to take in. Will it be different this year? I have no idea, but a full year in the system now, they should be improved. Sorry I'm not doom and gloom, I am going to look for the positives until there aren't any to look for.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Do we?

The OLine SHOULD be ok if healthy and Thuney signed.

RB? Do we have a lunch pail guy to tote the rock in a ball control power offense? Who? Maybe Harris. But I view the other 3 as complimentary backs in a passing offense. There’s no Antowain Smith/Corey Dillon there.

WRs? Last in the league in seperation. First in drops. Hmmmm.....[/QUOTE

Michel is a decent back, so is Burkhead, Bolden and White. The running game wasn't used nearly as much as it should have been used. The OL got decimated with injury last year as well. Newhouse was a turnstile. If the OL can stay healthy, that will help the running game and passing game. This is the same OL prior to last year that allowed 21 sacks. It's a solid unit, when healthy. That's the big part of it.

Sanu, Harry and Meyers, new system and there was a lot to take in. Will it be different this year? I have no idea, but a full year in the system now, they should be improved. Sorry I'm not doom and gloom, I am going to look for the positives until there aren't any to look for.

Why is it black or white around here? There’s no grey?

Michel is ok. I like Burkhead. But neither look to be a feature back in a power run attack. Michel is exciting when he hits the second level but he needs a gaping hole to get there and has shown little if any ability to break tackles. Burkhead explodes to the line more like what you’d look for, but he doesn’t break a lot either or rip off any lengthy carries.

Maybe the WRs put in due diligence in this downtime and get serious reps in with a Juggs machine. And maybe their off season program put an emphasis on first step explosiveness and their inability to seperate will decrease. I hope.

 

[spacecrime]

Last in the league in seperation. First in drops. Hmmmm.....

You and Middie keep asking me how I can possibly think the Pats WRs will be okay. One reason is that I don't consider separation as a reliable measure of a wide receiver.

Separation has nothing to do with catchable balls. It is the number of yards between a receiver and the closest defender at the time of reception (not at time of throw).

Average Separation (SEP)
The distance (in yards) measured between a WR/TE and the nearest defender at the time of catch or incompletion.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/glossary

Next Gen Stats lists separation stats for individual WRs. The best is 3.9 and 3.8 yards (Jimmy Graham and Vance McDonald). The worst is 1.9 and 2.0 yards (Kenny Golliday and Mike Williams).

So the absolute worst receivers had 2 yards of separation at the time of the catch. And you're telling me that 2 frigging yards of separation means Brady couldn't hit the receiver????

Plus, here are the Pats on the list:

3.1 Sanu
2.9 Dorsett
2.8 Edelman

So because Edelman averaged less separation than Sanu and Dorsett then he isn't as good a receiver?

No, it's just that Brady has devolved over the last couple of years to ignore the open man and ONLY throw to his favorites. He only had two favorite receivers in 2018 and only one in 2019. No wonder our offense sucked.

And where are Harry and Meyers on the list?

They aren't there because there was a minimum of 43 targets to be included and they didn't have enough targets because Brady refuses to throw to rookies unless absolutely necessary.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving

I'm not saying that t Pats receivers were great. I am saying that separation is NOT the reason.

Oh, and the Pats didn't lead the league in drops last year, either. They weren't good but they weren't last. Edelman dragged our average way down.

I couldn't find Next Gen Stats for dropped balls, but these percentages of dropped ball are from Fox Sports who did include Meyers and Harry:

10.4% - Edelman (16 drops/153 targets)
4.8% - Meyers (2 drops/41 targets)
4.1% - Harry (1 drop/24 targets)

 

[Patriots71]

You're going by the assumption that players won't improve though. We still have a very good OL and very solid stable of RB's. Good WR's (this is where I think we will improve from year 1 to now). And the defense is still very good, the secondary is intact. The LB's may be a question mark right now but I still think we have a competitive team.

Actually Im going by, we lost our QB 3 linebackers, didnt gain anything except unknown rookies and we have a schedule that is the hardest in the league.

---------- Post added at 05:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:43 PM ----------

Not necessarily true and 2001 proved that out. Far less talented team than the Rams.

After that incredibly epic win, I sent BB a thank you note, partially for the win but mostly because he changed my approach to my company.

I owned a painting company for many years and always hired the most talented painters but they were straight divas and killed productivity.

I learned my lesson from that year in 2001.

Bring in capable people that want to excel and succeed and had a fire in their belly for it. Screw the the talented divas.

I went on to have one hell of a successful career with that gameplan.

We went 9 years inbetween superbowls. Its hard to win the superbowl. The optimal time is not when you are in a rebuild with unknown players, some of which have never played in the NFL. Just because it happened once does not mean it happens again. We did not know what Brady was but to assume Stidham is Brady, its just too hard to say that. Belichick brought in a ton of vets not young kids. We were not good enough to even win a playoff game last year but now we are?

---------- Post added at 05:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:46 PM ----------

Do we?

The OLine SHOULD be ok if healthy and Thuney signed.

RB? Do we have a lunch pail guy to tote the rock in a ball control power offense? Who? Maybe Harris. But I view the other 3 as complimentary backs in a passing offense. There’s no Antowain Smith/Corey Dillon there.

WRs? Last in the league in seperation. First in drops. Hmmmm.....[/QUOTE

Michel is a decent back, so is Burkhead, Bolden and White. The running game wasn't used nearly as much as it should have been used. The OL got decimated with injury last year as well. Newhouse was a turnstile. If the OL can stay healthy, that will help the running game and passing game. This is the same OL prior to last year that allowed 21 sacks. It's a solid unit, when healthy. That's the big part of it.

Sanu, Harry and Meyers, new system and there was a lot to take in. Will it be different this year? I have no idea, but a full year in the system now, they should be improved. Sorry I'm not doom and gloom, I am going to look for the positives until there aren't any to look for.

Well here is the thing, you are about to see sacks go up quite a bit. Young QB's take sacks, they just do. Speed of the game, etc. Brady was getting rid of the ball or at least trying to very quickly as to not take a negative play. When you have players that do not get open fast, that also makes it worse. Stidham is going to have a learning curve. I dont live ina fantasy land that thinks he is going to come in and be great right away. We dont have some high flying team of open people running everywhere like KC does. Its going to be a rough time for Stidham at points next season. Its not doom and gloom, its reality.

---------- Post added at 05:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:49 PM ----------

You and Middie keep asking me how I can possibly think the Pats WRs will be okay. One reason is that I don't consider separation as a reliable measure of a wide receiver.

Separation has nothing to do with catchable balls. It is the number of yards between a receiver and the closest defender at the time of reception (not at time of throw).

Average Separation (SEP)
The distance (in yards) measured between a WR/TE and the nearest defender at the time of catch or incompletion.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/glossary

Next Gen Stats lists separation stats for individual WRs. The best is 3.9 and 3.8 yards (Jimmy Graham and Vance McDonald). The worst is 1.9 and 2.0 yards (Kenny Golliday and Mike Williams).

So the absolute worst receivers had 2 yards of separation at the time of the catch. And you're telling me that 2 frigging yards of separation means Brady couldn't hit the receiver????

Plus, here are the Pats on the list:

3.1 Sanu
2.9 Dorsett
2.8 Edelman

So because Edelman averaged less separation than Sanu and Dorsett then he isn't as good a receiver?

No, it's just that Brady has devolved over the last couple of years to ignore the open man and ONLY throw to his favorites. He only had two favorite receivers in 2018 and only one in 2019. No wonder our offense sucked.

And where are Harry and Meyers on the list?

They aren't there because there was a minimum of 43 targets to be included and they didn't have enough targets because Brady refuses to throw to rookies unless absolutely necessary.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving

I'm not saying that t Pats receivers were great. I am saying that separation is NOT the reason.

Oh, and the Pats didn't lead the league in drops last year, either. They weren't good but they weren't last. Edelman dragged our average way down.

I couldn't find Next Gen Stats for dropped balls, but these percentages of dropped ball are from Fox Sports who did include Meyers and Harry:

10.4% - Edelman (16 drops/153 targets)
4.8% - Meyers (2 drops/41 targets)
4.1% - Harry (1 drop/24 targets)

As a team the pats were dead last, KC was first. Saying separation does not mean anything....I just dont get how you can say that. Look at your teams at the bottom of the list and tell me how their passing game was. I know Brady brady brady he is done, etc etc, but there is no way you can say that being last in separation when we had never been below 14 in the last 20 years does not mean anything, and also, its average, so you are thinking about it the wrong way, oh just 2 yards difference. This is a game of inches man. 2 yards is forever. You said the pats didnt lead the league in drops, no they were second. lol. So if you are saying last in separation, 2nd in drops does not hurt you, I am not sure what to say. You have to get open, this notion that you dont, is unreal. Bradywas 13% more accurate in tight window throws last year. 11.5% more accurate than league average on deep throws in tight windows. Those are directly from PFF. The thing is, he had to be or we would not have completed many passes period, but now you think a first year starter is going to come in who has 1 year in an offense and barely played and all of the sudden being open doesnt matter? Wow

 

[spacecrime]

Saying separation does not mean anything....I just dont get how you can say that.

That's because I didn't say that.

all of the sudden being open doesnt matter?

Never said that either.

Did you read my post?

 

[spacecrime]

As a team the pats were dead last, KC was first.

What is your source for this(link please)? Because the NFL.COM link I posted showed the Pats were exactly in the middle of the pack and I think it's more likely than not that you made this up also.

 

[Patriots71]

What is your source for this(link please)? Because the NFL.COM link I posted showed the Pats were exactly in the middle of the pack and I think it's more likely than not that you made this up also.

Evan Lazar
@ezlazar
Average separation at throw on all routes for the six #Patriots WRs that ran at least 100 routes, per Next Gen (NFL rank out of 143):

Edelman - 2.82 (106)

Sanu - 2.77 (112)

Gordon - 2.74 (118)

Meyers - 2.72 (120)

Dorsett - 2.72 (121)

Harry - 2.21 (143)


lol. Middle of the pack.

https://www.overtimeheroics.net/ind...r-new-england-patriots-wide-receiver-targets/

You like DVOA? HOw far down the list here before you get to a Patriots receiver? Let me know

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/wr/2019

Couple that with top 3 in drops? I would say we are fighting very hard for worst receiving corp in the league last year.


“The three highest PFF receiving grades on the Patriots' roster this season came from Antonio Brown (who lasted one game), James White (a running back) and Elandon Roberts (a linebacker turned emergency fullback who had one catch).”

– @PFF_Samhttps://t.co/3SNnzegeQX

— PFF NE Patriots (@PFF_Patriots) February 12, 2020

Here is another link
https://www.reddit.com/r/Patriots/comments/eb88r1/patriots_receivers_not_getting_open_on_pressured/


If you really think that our receiving corp was good, I am done having any discussion with you. There is not an expert out there that would say the pats receiving corp last year was good. Injuries, guys coming in and out of lineup, players leaving, etc etc. Stop with the nonsense. It was the weakest part of the team.
Last year we got called for a ton of OPI because we were trying everything to get guys open, we had to resort to trick plays for guys to get separation. I'm not sure how anyone could watch last year and say, oh receivers were fine. It baffles me to read that. You want to say Brady lost it, cool, probably has. You want to say injuries, you bet, no doubt, but to say the receiver corp was fine? I'm done.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

You read all that then pause.

And imagine.

Our TEs were worse.