A few Random Observations on young guys/bubble players

[Hawg73]

I've had a chance to watch both preseason games and have a few thoughts about some of the guys that we don't usually talk about, so I thought I'd share them here, in no particular order of importance.

DL

* Adam Butler looks like a guy we might want to hang onto and develop. He's not the biggest DL, but has a nice first step and a real good spin move and that's more than you can say about Kilgo or Woody Hamilton. He got reps at DE and DT vs. Houston and stood out amongst the scrubs. Definitely good enough to hang around on the PS.

* I actually laughed at Josh Augusta when I saw some of his college clips, but this kid has obviously worked hard in the last few months. He's gone from obese to merely sloppy and instead of quicksand his feet are now only stuck in deep mud. Still, another year of that kind of progress and he could stick, because he can eat some space inside.

* Kony Ealy was about 100 pct. better versus Houston than in the first game where he looked positively disinterested in being a Patriot. Let's see how it goes, but he looked decent.

* Valentine is another guy who has trimmed down and looks like he might take a step forward after a decent rookie year. He hustles to the ball nicely.

LB

* I've heard some of the reasons why Harvey Langi didn't get drafted, but it's hard to see why. He doesn't seem to know what he's doing quite yet, but he's got the size, the wheels and is aggressive enough to make the 53, I believe and there is certainly opportunity at the position. I like how he gets after it on the rush even though he needs time to develop.

* I've seen worse looking prospects than Trevor Bates although he is surely a longshot. I want to see more of him.

OL

* He isn't great by any stretch, but it looks to me like Ted Karras has improved his agility a bit and we could stick him in the lineup without the offense grinding to a halt. He gets good push and seems to want to punish the guy he's blocking. I like him a little.

* James Ferentz has been getting a lot of work at center and the good news is that he isn't that far behind David Andrews from what I've seen. The bad news is that he appears only slightly more powerful and that may not be enough. Still, he might be something someday.

* on the negative side, Conor McDermott has a ways to go. He's pretty stiff and is going to struggle to handle speed guys, I think. His frame deserves a year of development if we can stash him, but I don't think he's a better option than Fleming at swing T from what I've seen. Or Cole Croston, either.

* Jamil Douglas.....bring your playbook, coach wants to see you

* He's not getting a lot of snaps, but I kind of like what I saw in Jason King, No. 74 and would like to see more. We've had worse guard prospects.

TE

* If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that the 3rd string TE on this team will be a significant upgrade over Matt Lengel. If it turns out to be O'Shaugnessy or Hollister that'd be fine with me. Probably the former, but Hollister may have more potential as a pass catcher, not that Bill ever keeps that kind of player as a 3rd or 4th option, but maybe this year.....

RB

* I think the gap between DJ Foster and James White has closed a little. I doubt we keep him, but he's got to be able to get reps for somebody in this league as a 3rd down guy. Looks like he's added a little muscle to his frame.

Other than that, I sort of like Kenny Moore and wonder if he might be able to play Safety better than Jordan Richards can. He's got a nice frame and seems to be a pretty solid tackler even though he is listed at corner.

I'd also like to say that Cyrus Jones looked positively light years better in the return game than we've yet seen. He looked confident catching the ball, which was a first to my eyes and if that keeps up he could finally do something positive to help this team and justify his draft slot, but I want to see him keep it going. I did notice that his teammates were excited for him, which indicates that he is working hard behind the scenes and they are pulling for him, which is a nice sign.

 

[PumpDee]

I would hate to see Austin Carr excell in a different uniform. He won't clear waivers for us to stash him on the PS. But with the depth the Pats have, he may be odd man out.


Hollister (the TE one) will be on the Pats PS.

 

[chevss454]

I've had a chance to watch both preseason games and have a few thoughts about some of the guys that we don't usually talk about, so I thought I'd share them here, in no particular order of importance.

DL

* Adam Butler looks like a guy we might want to hang onto and develop. He's not the biggest DL, but has a nice first step and a real good spin move and that's more than you can say about Kilgo or Woody Hamilton. He got reps at DE and DT vs. Houston and stood out amongst the scrubs. Definitely good enough to hang around on the PS.

* I actually laughed at Josh Augusta when I saw some of his college clips, but this kid has obviously worked hard in the last few months. He's gone from obese to merely sloppy and instead of quicksand his feet are now only stuck in deep mud. Still, another year of that kind of progress and he could stick, because he can eat some space inside.

* Kony Ealy was about 100 pct. better versus Houston than in the first game where he looked positively disinterested in being a Patriot. Let's see how it goes, but he looked decent.

* Valentine is another guy who has trimmed down and looks like he might take a step forward after a decent rookie year. He hustles to the ball nicely.

LB

* I've heard some of the reasons why Harvey Langi didn't get drafted, but it's hard to see why. He doesn't seem to know what he's doing quite yet, but he's got the size, the wheels and is aggressive enough to make the 53, I believe and there is certainly opportunity at the position. I like how he gets after it on the rush even though he needs time to develop.

* I've seen worse looking prospects than Trevor Bates although he is surely a longshot. I want to see more of him.

OL

* He isn't great by any stretch, but it looks to me like Ted Karras has improved his agility a bit and we could stick him in the lineup without the offense grinding to a halt. He gets good push and seems to want to punish the guy he's blocking. I like him a little.

* James Ferentz has been getting a lot of work at center and the good news is that he isn't that far behind David Andrews from what I've seen. The bad news is that he appears only slightly more powerful and that may not be enough. Still, he might be something someday.

* on the negative side, Conor McDermott has a ways to go. He's pretty stiff and is going to struggle to handle speed guys, I think. His frame deserves a year of development if we can stash him, but I don't think he's a better option than Fleming at swing T from what I've seen. Or Cole Croston, either.

* Jamil Douglas.....bring your playbook, coach wants to see you

* He's not getting a lot of snaps, but I kind of like what I saw in Jason King, No. 74 and would like to see more. We've had worse guard prospects.

TE

* If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that the 3rd string TE on this team will be a significant upgrade over Matt Lengel. If it turns out to be O'Shaugnessy or Hollister that'd be fine with me. Probably the former, but Hollister may have more potential as a pass catcher, not that Bill ever keeps that kind of player as a 3rd or 4th option, but maybe this year.....

RB

* I think the gap between DJ Foster and James White has closed a little. I doubt we keep him, but he's got to be able to get reps for somebody in this league as a 3rd down guy. Looks like he's added a little muscle to his frame.

Other than that, I sort of like Kenny Moore and wonder if he might be able to play Safety better than Jordan Richards can. He's got a nice frame and seems to be a pretty solid tackler even though he is listed at corner.

I'd also like to say that Cyrus Jones looked positively light years better in the return game than we've yet seen. He looked confident catching the ball, which was a first to my eyes and if that keeps up he could finally do something positive to help this team and justify his draft slot, but I want to see him keep it going. I did notice that his teammates were excited for him, which indicates that he is working hard behind the scenes and they are pulling for him, which is a nice sign.

Thanks, Hawg. You put some effort and time into that post.
This next game is impt for all these guys.

Butler had a nice game vs the Texans. If he keeps up his progress in preseason, he's someone who could land on the PS for sure.

Ealy also seemed to come to life during the Texans game. Maybe the light went off but maybe it's a temporary thing. He shows ability...when he wants to. This next game will be real important for him.

Valentine was pretty productive last year. He's not a bubble guy; he's on the 53 again imo.

Augusta still has a way to go to make our PS I think.

BB obviously likes Langi otherwise he wouldn't have played every snap of the first half vs the Texans. He showed ability even though there were a few rookie type miscues/issues he'll have to clean up. He played well. The signs say he'll stick but does he play OLB in the 3/4 and move to Edge in nickel?

Bates is another guy who got lots of snaps vs the Texans & he made the best of them. If he's not ready for the 53 then he could easily land on the PS.

O'S and Hollister have both played well so it depends if BB wants a move TE or one who can block someone.

Foster was terrific.

The next 2 weeks will tell the tale.

 

[Hawg73]

BB obviously likes Langi otherwise he wouldn't have played every snap of the first half vs the Texans. He showed ability even though there were a few rookie type miscues/issues he'll have to clean up. He played well. The signs say he'll stick but does he play OLB in the 3/4 and move to Edge in nickel?

If you saw Zac Cunningham, who will eventually be a good player in all likelihood, getting burned in coverage repeatedly for Houston while their announcers (I watched the Houston feed) kept reminding me what a great athlete he is you had to wonder why he was a top pick and Langi was a UDFA.

I noticed Langi covering backs well down the field and doing a decent job and his quick and smooth movement skills and potential 3-down ability (in time) just stands out. I know there is a big gap between BYU and the pros, but if he improves his ability to see the field and anticipate, then we've got ourselves a real bargain.

If a neutral observer just watched those two guys and didn't know any better would any of them suspect the huge disparity in their draft status? I doubt it.

For now, let's get Langi to Canton, Ma. and worry about the other one down around the bend, but I'm definitely keeping him on the 53 based on what I've seen.

 

[chevss454]

If you saw Zac Cunningham, who will eventually be a good player in all likelihood, getting burned in coverage repeatedly for Houston while their announcers (I watched the Houston feed) kept reminding me what a great athlete he is you had to wonder why he was a top pick and Langi was a UDFA.

I noticed Langi covering backs well down the field and doing a decent job and his quick and smooth movement skills and potential 3-down ability (in time) just stands out. I know there is a big gap between BYU and the pros, but if he improves his ability to see the field and anticipate, then we've got ourselves a real bargain.

If a neutral observer just watched those two guys and didn't know any better would any of them suspect the huge disparity in their draft status? I doubt it.

For now, let's get Langi to Canton, Ma. and worry about the other one down around the bend, but I'm definitely keeping him on the 53 based on what I've seen.

Here's Bedards take on many of the guys you talked about

From Bedard
https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/...nse-vs-texans/

A look at the individual units and which players stood out positively and negatively:
Defensive line
Hard to find much wrong in this group. The return of Alan Branch to game action had an immediate impact. That guy is just a bull wherever he is on the line, and impossible to move. Only once did he get turned around a little in his gap and allow yardage. Other than, he was awesome six “plus” plays, including a QB hit, pass deflection and four standout plays against the run. … Kony Ealy didn’t standout much in person, but looked much better on film. This was the first time we’ve seen him play much in a two-point stance (standing up), and he was not the fish out of water we expect. In fact, you could make the argument that he was more impactful (half sack, 1.5 hurries) without a hand on the ground. Ealy also set the edge well in the run game. This game may have changed the conversation about Ealy. Definitely back in the mix. … Adam Butler (seven plus plays) continues to be impactful everytime he’s on the field. He’s surprisingly powerful inside and outside, and he’s getting better at dislodging from blocks. … Harvey Langi started at outside linebacker in what looked to be a lot of 3-4 defense. We’re going to classify him here for now. Langi had a lot of good moments (generated pressure on four separate plays) and showed some nice versatility, but he needs to work on not getting past the QB on rushes. That happened twice, and opens up the opportunity for big plays.
Linebackers
A mixed bag from this group. Elandon Roberts continued to struggle before leaving with a rib injury. He was in the mix on D’Onta Foreman’s 63-yard, catch-and-run. Roberts was in coverage and kind of got caught in between playing the man and the ball. The play was a cavalcade of errors with S David Jones and CB Cyrus Jones missing tackles. And on the second play of the game, Roberts got himself caught up in the wash and then missed the tackle on Jaelen Strong. … Trevor Bates sniffed out a screen well, but he needs to find a way to get off the tight end’s block and make a play on Foreman’s 4-yard touchdown run. If Bates is going to make this team, he’s going to need to play a little bigger at the point of attack.
Secondary
Stephon Gilmore is going to have issues at times with penalties. He tends to get a little grabby at the top of the routes, and it was an issue at times in Buffalo. Near the end of the Texans’ first drive, he got away with contact against WR Dres Anderson. In the regular season, he might not. … Malcolm Butler might have slipped on the Strong touchdown, but he put himself in a bad spot. After playing inside leverage to prevent an in-breaking route, Butler peeked into the backfield, got his hips going the wrong way and allowed Strong to cross his face. Butler also gave up the 37-yard jump ball to Bruce Ellington. Can’t teach height. … Jones was not only poor on Foreman’s big play, but he also turned his back to the dangerous Watson on his run. Ealy did his job on that play, but both Jones and Jonathan Freeny should have been in better position to make a play on the embarrassingly easy touchdown. … Justin Coleman, ran into a punt and split responsibility with Demarius Travis on Ellington’s 33-yard catch, but Coleman got his hands on four different passes. That’s the type of playmaking that can’t be overlooked, and will keep him in the nickel/dime mix. … Four total missed tackles in this group: Nate Ebner, Jordan Richards, David Jones, Cyrus Jones (who popped on punt returns twice).
Three up
Adam Butler: The kid just knows how to make plays, and does a pretty good job of staying within the scheme as well. Great motor. Stands his blocker up in the run game and disengages, and has very good quickness on the pass rush.
Alan Branch: The defense (well, at least the run defense) looks almost completely different when he’s in the middle. Conditioning didn’t even seem to be a factor. Things are good with the big fella back.
Kony Ealy: Give the guy credit, after a tough camp he’s starting to come on and have a little bit of an impact. The hope now is that he gets more comfortable playing on two feet and gives them a legit alternative out there.
Three down
LB Elandon Roberts: His lingering issues in pass coverage popped up again, and he had a missed tackle.
CB Malcolm Butler: Got outfought for a jump ball and then looked sloppy on the touchdown. Not a good night at the office.
DE Harvey Langi: Certainly did some nice things, but the undrafted rookie was a bit undisciplined in his pass rush and it was costly. At least that’s something that’s easily correctable
Gamechart

 

[chevss454]

Fwiw, DJFoster's locker has been moved close to Brady, Malcolm Mitchell, Jimmy Garoppolo, Jacoby Brissett and Danny Amendola. Locker locations have a distinct hierarchy. This may be a clue.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Fwiw, DJFoster's locker has been moved close to Brady, Malcolm Mitchell, Jimmy Garoppolo, Jacoby Brissett and Danny Amendola. Locker locations have a distinct hierarchy. This may be a clue.

Wow.

That indicates a major twist in what we perceive the grouping to be.

By all accounts he was outside looking in.

Somethings gotta give.

 

[chevss454]

Despite many players having to double up, Ninkovich's locker is still open and available. :tmack:

 

[chevss454]

Wow.

That indicates a major twist in what we perceive the grouping to be.

By all accounts he was outside looking in.

Somethings gotta give.

I'm not ready to see White leave via trade. He's become a tremendous player and too valuable. Burkhead did well as did Foster but it's only preseason. They aren't ready to do what he did last. No way.

 

[Mr NFLfan]

I would hate to see Austin Carr excell in a different uniform. He won't clear waivers for us to stash him on the PS. But with the depth the Pats have, he may be odd man out.


Hollister (the TE one) will be on the Pats PS.

They definitely have to find a spot for Carr.

 

[JD10367]

Wow.

That indicates a major twist in what we perceive the grouping to be.

By all accounts he was outside looking in.

Somethings gotta give.

Has Gillislee even practiced? Can they put him on IR designated to return?

 

[Mazz22]

I'm not ready to see White leave via trade. He's become a tremendous player and too valuable. Burkhead did well as did Foster but it's only preseason. They aren't ready to do what he did last. No way.

If foster is in than odd man out would be Lewis not white IMO . They just gave white a new deal. Lewis is in his final year.

 

[PumpDee]

Has Gillislee even practiced? Can they put him on IR designated to return?

He practiced today.

 

[spacecrime]

Has Gillislee even practiced? Can they put him on IR designated to return?

Gillislee practiced today but there is no more "designated to return" AFAIK. Teams can re-activate two players from IR (after they've been on IR for 8 weeks).

 

[Undertaker #59*]

They definitely have to find a spot for Carr.

Should try him on punt returns. Can't be worse.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

 

[chevss454]

If foster is in than odd man out would be Lewis not white IMO . They just gave white a new deal. Lewis is in his final year.

My point was via trade. Lewis wouldn't bring much via trade. White would bring a good player if BB thought a position needed it. Right now Edge looked pretty good so it's doesn't appear to be an issue.

 

[sg14]

I've had a chance to watch both preseason games and have a few thoughts about some of the guys that we don't usually talk about, so I thought I'd share them here, in no particular order of importance.

DL

* Adam Butler looks like a guy we might want to hang onto and develop. He's not the biggest DL, but has a nice first step and a real good spin move and that's more than you can say about Kilgo or Woody Hamilton. He got reps at DE and DT vs. Houston and stood out amongst the scrubs. Definitely good enough to hang around on the PS.

* Valentine is another guy who has trimmed down and looks like he might take a step forward after a decent rookie year. He hustles to the ball nicely.

LB

* I've heard some of the reasons why Harvey Langi didn't get drafted, but it's hard to see why. He doesn't seem to know what he's doing quite yet, but he's got the size, the wheels and is aggressive enough to make the 53, I believe and there is certainly opportunity at the position. I like how he gets after it on the rush even though he needs time to develop.

* I've seen worse looking prospects than Trevor Bates although he is surely a longshot. I want to see more of him.

OL

* He isn't great by any stretch, but it looks to me like Ted Karras has improved his agility a bit and we could stick him in the lineup without the offense grinding to a halt. He gets good push and seems to want to punish the guy he's blocking. I like him a little.

* James Ferentz

* on the negative side, Conor McDermott has a ways to go. He's pretty stiff and is going to struggle to handle speed guys, I think. His frame deserves a year of development if we can stash him, but I don't think he's a better option than Fleming at swing T from what I've seen. Or Cole Croston, either.

* Jamil Douglas.....bring your playbook, coach wants to see you

* He's not getting a lot of snaps, but I kind of like what I saw in Jason King, No. 74 and would like to see more. We've had worse guard prospects.

Other than that, I sort of like Kenny Moore and wonder if he might be able to play Safety better than Jordan Richards can. He's got a nice frame and seems to be a pretty solid tackler even though he is listed at corner.
.

Think I tried watching the same YouTube feed with limited success.

Thought as a whole our back up Oline was worse than the Texans back up D line.
McDermott looks a bit like Learch, always in an awkward position.

Didn't notice King although when watching some Purdue games he pops, can be a road grader. What did you see out of King?

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I'm not ready to see White leave via trade. He's become a tremendous player and too valuable. Burkhead did well as did Foster but it's only preseason. They aren't ready to do what he did last. No way.

I watched Burkhead closely last year(fantasy). His last couple games were very impressive. He hits a hole HARD. His first carry here as well was more impressive than any handoffs I've seen White take.

I think people are really gonna like this guy.

 

[Hawg73]

Think I tried watching the same YouTube feed with limited success.

Thought as a whole our back up Oline was worse than the Texans back up D line.
McDermott looks a bit like Learch, always in an awkward position.

Didn't notice King although when watching some Purdue games he pops, can be a road grader. What did you see out of King?

First, I was away last week and forgot to DVR the game before I left. I found the replay on NFL network and watched that which happened to be the Houston feed. Even though the announcers were a bit slanted at least they were professional and it saved me from listening to Chuckleheads 1 and 2 yuck it up while ignoring the football game they are supposed to be broadcasting. God, they are awful. I might do that again.

What I saw in King was a pretty good frame to grow into, decent feet and some pop with his hands. He was getting in people's way. I'm not saying he was good, but he was better than Jamil Douglas who got the 2nd string snaps behind Thuney at LG and really struggled. I'm just saying King might be somebody to hang onto for a year and see how much he improves because Douglas looked pretty bad. I figure a team that worked on Chris Barker, for instance, for two full years without any signs of ability at all could do worse than to take a long look at King.

I'd also mention that Houston has some big, strong boys up front besides Watt with some depth and they look like they'll give a lot of people trouble. D.J. Reader, Ankou, Ross and a backup named Hatley that looked like a beast. That D looked tough.