Brissett or Garoppolo?

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We need to change this thread title to "Brissett or Garopollo or Edelman"
 
To be fair, chevvs, the Texans are probably better than Georgia State.

Probably.

:coffee:
 
We all know Brissett will be the first black QB to start for the Pats but the Pats have a history of drafting black QBs that goes way back to the 1969 Boston Patriots. Anyone old enough to remember Onree Jackson?

This is interesting.

BOSTON (AP) — From his den in Huntsville, Alabama, Onree Jackson will quietly root to see Jacoby Brissett under center when he watches New England host Houston on Thursday night.
Almost 50 years have passed, but Jackson still remembers his excitement when he was drafted out of Alabama A&M in 1969 by the Boston Patriots — the franchise's first black quarterback.
Back then, the team hailed his potential to be "the Willie Mays of pro football." But he never played in a regular-season NFL game.

Now, Brissett could [become] its first African-American player to start at quarterback. While the Patriots have been racially progressive in other ways, the New York Giants are the only other NFL team to have never started an African-American quarterback.
Brissett's opportunity comes because of two unusual factors. Tom Brady, the team's cornerstone, is suspended four games for his role in using underinflated footballs in the playoffs in 2015. And Brady's backup, Jimmy Garoppolo, has a shoulder injury and is listed as doubtful for Thursday.
While none have started a regular-season game, the Patriots have drafted eight African-American quarterbacks. Michael Bishop played the most, appearing in eight games in 2000.
The potential distinction shows how much things have changed in 50 years.
"When I got there, there was a baseball player with the Red Sox and he said in the paper, 'You know they're not going to have an N-word quarterback here in Boston,'" Jackson, 69, recalled in an interview with The Associated Press.
"It was funny to him, I think, because they had a picture of him laughing in the papers," Jackson said. "I had a shot, and I didn't make it under their rules."
Boston's professional teams — like the city's neighborhoods — had different reactions to the civil rights movement and the integration of professional sports.


Meanwhile, the Patriots neither led nor trailed the pack on such issues.
Jackson was drafted by Rommie Loudd, the AFL's first black assistant coach before he joined the Patriots in 1966. He moved to the team's front office and became its personnel director in 1969, one of the first black personnel directors in the NFL.
Jackson said he thought everything was fine until he drew consistent ire from then-coach Clive Rush, who told Jackson: "Joe wouldn't do that."
"He was talking about Namath," Jackson said. "Me being who I am, and where I was from and all, I just accepted that and went on."
Jackson was waived after a few months. Rush told the Frederick Daily Leader at the time that Jackson "was behind three other quarterbacks."
"As I've grown older, I can see little signs that said, 'You aren't going to make it because you're a black quarterback.' That's the way I interpreted it, anyway," Jackson said.
Rush was fired after a losing season in 1969 and 1-6 start in 1970.
New England has never had a black head coach. Romeo Crennel, now defensive coordinator in Houston, held that job in New England before he was head coach in Cleveland and Kansas City. Bobby Grier, who is black, was an assistant coach with the Patriots who rose to be vice president of player personnel from 1997-2000.
Richard Johnson, curator of the Boston Sports Museum, said while the quarterback milestone would be unintentional, there has never been talk of race influencing the Pats' personnel decisions.
"Under Bill Belichick, the best player has always played," Johnson said.
Richard Lapchick, who has pushed for diversity across college and professional sports from The Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sports, said the Patriots under owner Robert Kraft have consistently pushed for inclusion in several ways.
"They were working in the community on gender violence prevention in the early 1990s, 20 years before Ray Rice or even before O.J.," Lapchick said.
The Patriots were also one of the first teams to help NFL players finish their degrees.
Josh Johnson, who is black and one of three Giants quarterbacks, was surprised when told his team could be the last to cross this particular racial benchmark.
"It shows progress," he said. "That's all you want to see, progress. Good luck to (Brissett), I hope he goes out and takes advantage of it. Opportunities come far and few."
Though it didn't work out for Jackson, he said he's proud to have played a part toward seeing a day when no one notices who is or isn't under center.
"It's a pride thing now," he said. "I'm proud of what happened. Though I didn't make it, it was kind of a foot in the door type-thing."
Click to expand...
http://pro32.ap.org/article/brissett-would-make-pats-history-first-black-qb-start
 
New plan:

1. You trade all 3 QBs on your roster for draft picks
2. Roger finds a way to take away half of them
3. Start random players at QB because apparently it doesn't matter
4. Repeat
 
Darth Despot said:
I have to ask...

How does a Brit in London become a fan of Jersey State U?
Click to expand...

We went to see friends in NYC, in 2014 At the time, I didn't have a college team to support. We went to Rutgers - Indiana, which was the first live game I'd seen in the States. There was the obvious Pats connection, but watching them live was great fun and, obviously being a Football nut, I was hooked. The lady, out of the couple, remarked that "this is f***ing mental". She was also referring to me, as I become an animal when Football is on.

It's good to support one of those teams who may come good one day. Early signs under Chris Ash are encouraging (they came back from 21-0 down to beat New Mexico last week, which showed great resilience).
 
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots/2016/09/options_around_for_tom_brady_and_jimmy_garoppolo


While the league is starved for quality starting quarterbacks, the Patriots boast an embarrassment of riches. In Tom Brady and Jimmy Garoppolo, they have an established superstar along with an up-and-coming star. (The collection expands to three if you throw Jacoby Brissett in there, though Thursday night’s 27-0 victory notwithstanding, he is still early in the process.)

With the signs promising on Garoppolo after seeing him effectively run the Patriots offense for a game and a half, even to the point of looking a bit like Brady with his quick reads and lightning release against Arizona and Miami, it’s opened up the discussion and sparked plenty of debate during the week.

Who stays? Who goes? And when?

“The Patriots are dealing from a position of strength,” ESPN analyst Damien Woody said when reached last week. “Everyone knows what you have in Brady. And now, you have a backup that could start for almost any organization.”

Of course, nothing is imminent. Garoppolo is signed through next season, and Brady through 2019, but the Patriots have to be thinking about the future and which quarterback will lead them going forward.

Will it be four-time Super Bowl winner Brady, who is 39 and falls in the age zone that typically sees quarterback play diminish? Only Brady, when last seen, was producing one of the best seasons of his storied career. Will it be Garoppolo, who just may have shown enough to convince the powers that be he is a worthy successor to the legend?

It’s hard to ignore how well Jimmy G played, how great he was against the blitz, and how much he looked the part.

So do you keep the quarterback who is more likely to bring you immediate success in another championship, or the kid who will take care of the position for the next decade, and, in theory, eventually crank out more titles?

Decisions, decisions.

The only thing anyone knows with any reasonable certainty is Brissett will be around for the next four years on his rookie contract. How he handled jumping in to start Thursday night on short notice thickens the plot, but essentially anchors him in Foxboro as a backup and possible heir to Brady if Jimmy G is dealt.

Whatever the case, the Patriots are rolling in quarterbacks, which is something no one else can say in the NFL.

“No one’s putting (Garoppolo) in Canton, but he’s a legitimate starter,” Woody added. “You can try and keep him, sign him and transition him to being the next guy for when Tom moves on, or you can trade him and get a high draft pick. The Patriots can’t go wrong in this whole thing.”

Now that Woody has thrown out some of the scenarios, let’s outline them.

Option 1: Keep Brady, trade Garoppolo. Assuming Brady is still operating at a superstar level when he returns, with an unknown timetable for when Father Time actually catches up with him, the Patriots have an asset in Garoppolo. Given the current landscape in the NFL, they’re likely to get a hefty return. It’s not outlandish to think some poor team would hand over a pair of first-round picks for him, one at the very least. It’s also not crazy to think a team like Cleveland, long mired in a quarterback slump, would make some kind of move for one at the end of the season. Their draft picks would be desired given where they’ll land in the pecking order.

The 49ers and Jets would also be in the mix, but it’s doubtful Bill Belichick would send Garoppolo to New York. The Pats would likely want to deal with a team where he wouldn’t come back to bite them. Plus, Belichick hates the Jets.

Option 2: Keep Garoppolo, trade Brady. Many of the all-time greats did not finish with their original team, be it Joe Montana, Peyton Manning or Brett Favre. This scenario is hard to imagine, but if anyone would have the guts to deal Brady and suffer the fallout, it would be Belichick. You can just hear him say, “I’m just doing what I think is best for the team.” If he thinks keeping a younger Garoppolo is best, that’s what will happen.

Behind his obvious icon status, however, the logistics of Brady’s deal would suggest it won’t happen. The Brady deal was reworked before the season to drop his base salary, and also give him a $28 million signing bonus, ostensibly to help offset the financial hit from the four-game suspension. The parameters of the deal also make it tough for the Pats to be without him. If Brady’s not on the Pats roster in 2017, his cap hit jumps from $14 million to $27 million in dead money. In 2018, it’s more palatable, with the hit going from $22 million to $14 million in dead money if he left. So this still doesn’t seem like a likely scenario.

Option 3: Keep Brady, keep Garoppolo. It’s not outlandish to think Jimmy G will be here at least part of next year, if not the entire year. If the Patriots wanted to keep Garoppolo beyond that as insurance, they could use the franchise tag. It’s awkward, expensive and crazy, considering the projected tag in 2018 for quarterbacks is $22 million. (Coincidentally, same as Brady’s 2018 cap hit.)

So it makes no sense to keep two quarterbacks at more than $40 million. The way it might work is if a now 40-something Brady adjusts his contract once again to lower his cap hit. But will the ultra-competitive Brady make all that work for his replacement to stick around, then gracefully walk off into the sunset when the time comes?

Another interesting subplot here is Brady and Garoppolo have the same agent, Don Yee. Might Yee work out something with the team that would bump up Garoppolo and allow both to stay a bit longer? Of course, the Pats might have others they’d consider more tag-worthy than Jimmy G, such as cornerback Malcolm Butler or linebacker Jamie Collins, who might be on his second tag at that point.

Option 4: Garoppolo walks. Can’t imagine this one at all, but Jimmy G sticks around the entire 2017 season as the backup and then is allowed to hit unrestricted free agency, which would likely land him a bundle. Remember Brock Osweiler, whom the Patriots just beat with Brissett, got $72 million from the Texans over four years. If it plays out this way, the Patriots get one more year of a top-shelf backup and net a third-round compensatory pick in the 2019 draft.

Those are the basic scenarios. And of course, having Brissett in the stable is icing on the cake. Maybe he plays next week against the Bills, or maybe not given the thumb injury he suffered in the second half on Thursday. Maybe it’s back to Jimmy G if he’s able to play with the shoulder problem. Perhaps we’re onto Julian Edelman or a quarterback to be named later.

Given how the Patriots have performed thus far, it doesn’t seem to matter.

“All I know is with Garoppolo playing well in those first two games, it’s just made for good sports radio fodder. What’s going to happen with Tom? What are they going to do with Garoppolo? It just gives everyone a lot of talking points,” said Woody. “But the more Garoppolo keeps playing well, they’re just in a position of strength. You don’t know when Tom Brady’s going to fall off. But at some point, he’s going to fall off. You just don’t know.

“But what I do know, is they got it better than any other team in the league right now.”
 
Beaglebay said:
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots/2016/09/options_around_for_tom_brady_and_jimmy_garoppolo


While the league is starved for quality starting quarterbacks, the Patriots boast an embarrassment of riches. In Tom Brady and Jimmy Garoppolo, they have an established superstar along with an up-and-coming star. (The collection expands to three if you throw Jacoby Brissett in there, though Thursday night’s 27-0 victory notwithstanding, he is still early in the process.)

With the signs promising on Garoppolo after seeing him effectively run the Patriots offense for a game and a half, even to the point of looking a bit like Brady with his quick reads and lightning release against Arizona and Miami, it’s opened up the discussion and sparked plenty of debate during the week.

Who stays? Who goes? And when?

“The Patriots are dealing from a position of strength,” ESPN analyst Damien Woody said when reached last week. “Everyone knows what you have in Brady. And now, you have a backup that could start for almost any organization.”

Of course, nothing is imminent. Garoppolo is signed through next season, and Brady through 2019, but the Patriots have to be thinking about the future and which quarterback will lead them going forward.

Will it be four-time Super Bowl winner Brady, who is 39 and falls in the age zone that typically sees quarterback play diminish? Only Brady, when last seen, was producing one of the best seasons of his storied career. Will it be Garoppolo, who just may have shown enough to convince the powers that be he is a worthy successor to the legend?

It’s hard to ignore how well Jimmy G played, how great he was against the blitz, and how much he looked the part.

So do you keep the quarterback who is more likely to bring you immediate success in another championship, or the kid who will take care of the position for the next decade, and, in theory, eventually crank out more titles?

Decisions, decisions.

The only thing anyone knows with any reasonable certainty is Brissett will be around for the next four years on his rookie contract. How he handled jumping in to start Thursday night on short notice thickens the plot, but essentially anchors him in Foxboro as a backup and possible heir to Brady if Jimmy G is dealt.

Whatever the case, the Patriots are rolling in quarterbacks, which is something no one else can say in the NFL.

“No one’s putting (Garoppolo) in Canton, but he’s a legitimate starter,” Woody added. “You can try and keep him, sign him and transition him to being the next guy for when Tom moves on, or you can trade him and get a high draft pick. The Patriots can’t go wrong in this whole thing.”

Now that Woody has thrown out some of the scenarios, let’s outline them.

Option 1: Keep Brady, trade Garoppolo. Assuming Brady is still operating at a superstar level when he returns, with an unknown timetable for when Father Time actually catches up with him, the Patriots have an asset in Garoppolo. Given the current landscape in the NFL, they’re likely to get a hefty return. It’s not outlandish to think some poor team would hand over a pair of first-round picks for him, one at the very least. It’s also not crazy to think a team like Cleveland, long mired in a quarterback slump, would make some kind of move for one at the end of the season. Their draft picks would be desired given where they’ll land in the pecking order.

The 49ers and Jets would also be in the mix, but it’s doubtful Bill Belichick would send Garoppolo to New York. The Pats would likely want to deal with a team where he wouldn’t come back to bite them. Plus, Belichick hates the Jets.

Option 2: Keep Garoppolo, trade Brady. Many of the all-time greats did not finish with their original team, be it Joe Montana, Peyton Manning or Brett Favre. This scenario is hard to imagine, but if anyone would have the guts to deal Brady and suffer the fallout, it would be Belichick. You can just hear him say, “I’m just doing what I think is best for the team.” If he thinks keeping a younger Garoppolo is best, that’s what will happen.

Behind his obvious icon status, however, the logistics of Brady’s deal would suggest it won’t happen. The Brady deal was reworked before the season to drop his base salary, and also give him a $28 million signing bonus, ostensibly to help offset the financial hit from the four-game suspension. The parameters of the deal also make it tough for the Pats to be without him. If Brady’s not on the Pats roster in 2017, his cap hit jumps from $14 million to $27 million in dead money. In 2018, it’s more palatable, with the hit going from $22 million to $14 million in dead money if he left. So this still doesn’t seem like a likely scenario.

Option 3: Keep Brady, keep Garoppolo. It’s not outlandish to think Jimmy G will be here at least part of next year, if not the entire year. If the Patriots wanted to keep Garoppolo beyond that as insurance, they could use the franchise tag. It’s awkward, expensive and crazy, considering the projected tag in 2018 for quarterbacks is $22 million. (Coincidentally, same as Brady’s 2018 cap hit.)

So it makes no sense to keep two quarterbacks at more than $40 million. The way it might work is if a now 40-something Brady adjusts his contract once again to lower his cap hit. But will the ultra-competitive Brady make all that work for his replacement to stick around, then gracefully walk off into the sunset when the time comes?

Another interesting subplot here is Brady and Garoppolo have the same agent, Don Yee. Might Yee work out something with the team that would bump up Garoppolo and allow both to stay a bit longer? Of course, the Pats might have others they’d consider more tag-worthy than Jimmy G, such as cornerback Malcolm Butler or linebacker Jamie Collins, who might be on his second tag at that point.

Option 4: Garoppolo walks. Can’t imagine this one at all, but Jimmy G sticks around the entire 2017 season as the backup and then is allowed to hit unrestricted free agency, which would likely land him a bundle. Remember Brock Osweiler, whom the Patriots just beat with Brissett, got $72 million from the Texans over four years. If it plays out this way, the Patriots get one more year of a top-shelf backup and net a third-round compensatory pick in the 2019 draft.

Those are the basic scenarios. And of course, having Brissett in the stable is icing on the cake. Maybe he plays next week against the Bills, or maybe not given the thumb injury he suffered in the second half on Thursday. Maybe it’s back to Jimmy G if he’s able to play with the shoulder problem. Perhaps we’re onto Julian Edelman or a quarterback to be named later.

Given how the Patriots have performed thus far, it doesn’t seem to matter.

“All I know is with Garoppolo playing well in those first two games, it’s just made for good sports radio fodder. What’s going to happen with Tom? What are they going to do with Garoppolo? It just gives everyone a lot of talking points,” said Woody. “But the more Garoppolo keeps playing well, they’re just in a position of strength. You don’t know when Tom Brady’s going to fall off. But at some point, he’s going to fall off. You just don’t know.

“But what I do know, is they got it better than any other team in the league right now.”
Click to expand...

More nice work from Guregian

Cheers
 
I could 100% see BB waiting as long as he could or wants to/needs to in order to see what happens with TB and then trading JG to the Saints. Up to and including a tag and trade where JG signs a new deal. Gets JG out of the AFC, gives him to someone who will develop him properly in Payton (also a Yee client, bonus).
And JG would be AWESOME with Sean. I would love that for both of them (if JG is fated not to stay a Pat).

All of this is pending how onerous Brees' extension is financially. I didn't pay much attention to the details of that.
 
At some point in the not too distant future, Brady will properly start the downslide that I erroneously thought had started two years ago. That being the case, they have got to keep one of Brissett or Garoppolo.

It seems too risky to hope that another QB that good will be drafted. For every Garoppolo and Brissett, there's a Rohan Davey, Ryan Mallett, Kevin O'Connell....
 
The cap numbers are such that Brady will not be going anywhere this offseason.

If you want picks you'll need to deal Jimmy and hope Jacoby develops into a starter over 2-3 years, which is not unreasonable.

The only way I see Garop sticking around here is if there's a gentleman's agreement that 2017 is Brady's last year in a Pats Uniform and Jimmy will be the starter thereafter.

I'm guessing that Jimmy G gets traded, but I would never pretend to know what's lurking in the mind of Darth Hoodie.
 
When Garoppollo got drafted did he get as much love as Brissett is getting now?

Think it was during the Houston game.... "they just love this kid"..
"Look at him handing the ball to Belichick".......
A little over the top.

I don't see how you let Jimmie go..
 
gomezcat said:
At some point in the not too distant future, Brady will properly start the downslide that I erroneously thought had started two years ago. That being the case, they have got to keep one of Brissett or Garoppolo.
Click to expand...

comment_agYtV6yVQ3NpVo0Y4MrGJWwMz2BkTSjx.jpg


(Brissett does have 3 years left on his rookie contract after this year)
 
We should start Edelman to keep Briskett and Garopolo healthy. It's a push-over win anyway. Strategize, Billothy, strategize. Edelman's good for 350 yds/3-5 TDs against this piss-poor team.
 
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