Do you "really" care about players using steroids?

[Defsoul]

What's the difference between taking a legal creatine supplement and an illegal testosterone supplement?

I don't see a fundamental difference aside from legality and effectiveness.

So what about side effects? Testosterone comes with severe side effects. Creatine not so much.

 

[Jaric]

Exactly. No one is tuning in to watch Shane Falco.

Personally, I think steroids in pro sports is largely a case of the general public not being interested in seeing how the sausage gets made.

 

[Frog]

Ok help me out because this doesn't make sense to me.

If we somehow figured out the most effective way to lift weights to achieve whatever you're personally trying to achieve, wouldn't you alter your training methods appropriately? I don't see why effectiveness should factor into legality. Banning something because it works (if that's the only issue) seems like madness to me.

Now, if that more effective method of weight lifting also came with side effects like growing a 3rd ball or something then yeah we can talk but simply being effective? I don't get that.

Well in response to your first paragraph I was going to say the difference is HGH has negative side effects and can cause potentially severe long term health problems. But you addressed that right after, so I guess we can agree on that..

As far as pure effectiveness of the drug, I guess that really isn't the biggest issue. It's more the fact that it's dangerous and it's not ethical for everyone to have to risk their health in order to be on an even playing field.

Hypothetically if a 100% safe substance were developed that worked even better than HGH, it would bring up a lot of questions. How does the league want the game to be played? Shouldnt those who work hard in the gym be the ones reaping the physical benefits over someone who takes an injection? Does having stronger players significantly increase the risk of injury?

 

[O.Z.O.]

Well in response to your first paragraph I was going to say the difference is HGH has negative side effects and can cause potentially severe long term health problems. But you addressed that right after, so I guess we can agree on that..

As far as pure effectiveness of the drug, I guess that really isn't the biggest issue. It's more the fact that it's dangerous and it's not ethical for everyone to have to risk their health in order to be on an even playing field.

Hypothetically if a 100% safe substance were developed that worked even better than HGH, it would bring up a lot of questions. How does the league want the game to be played? Shouldnt those who work hard in the gym be the ones reaping the physical benefits over someone who takes an injection? Does having stronger players significantly increase the risk of injury?

Injection alone isn't going to do it. Guys are still going to need to put in their time in the gym.

 

[Jaric]

So what about side effects? Testosterone comes with severe side effects. Creatine not so much.

While correct, it seems disingenuous (to me) to argue against chemical enhancement side effects when simply playing the sport leads to irreversible head trauma.

The simple fact is that being a professional football player is not good for your body. The way I see it, the juice is worth the squeeze or it isn't.

 

[PatriotInIndy]

While correct, it seems disingenuous (to me) to argue against chemical enhancement side effects when simply playing the sport leads to irreversible head trauma.

The simple fact is that being a professional football player is not good for your body. The way I see it, the juice is worth the squeeze or it isn't.

Both, by themselves, are bad for your body. Combine the two and you are creating an even worse situation. That's one of the problems.

 

[Jaric]

Well in response to your first paragraph I was going to say the difference is HGH has negative side effects and can cause potentially severe long term health problems. But you addressed that right after, so I guess we can agree on that..

As far as pure effectiveness of the drug, I guess that really isn't the biggest issue. It's more the fact that it's dangerous and it's not ethical for everyone to have to risk their health in order to be on an even playing field.

Hypothetically if a 100% safe substance were developed that worked even better than HGH, it would bring up a lot of questions. How does the league want the game to be played? Shouldnt those who work hard in the gym be the ones reaping the physical benefits over someone who takes an injection? Does having stronger players significantly increase the risk of injury?

The bolted part is why I tend to have a different opinion when it comes to combat sports like MMA or Boxing. The NFL is on that line for me because it's about as close to a combat sport as you can get without actually punching dudes in the face.

As to side effects...

I can certainly see why that's an important distinction and also a good argument against an individual choosing to not to use them regardless of the benefits (same reason I don't **** with Coke or heroin, I've determined it's not worth it)

However, like I said before it seems somewhat odd to argue against something because of the side effects when the sport you're playing causes horrible side effects on its own. I don't know the specifics but are the side effects of anabolics even comparable to CTE?

 

[Mazz22]

Exactly. No one is tuning in to watch Shane Falco.

Or a geriatric ManninHGH. If there was ever an NFL poster child for "this is your body not on drugs/this is your body on drugs" it is Pey Pey*.

 

[Jaric]

Both, by themselves, are bad for your body. Combine the two and you are creating an even worse situation. That's one of the problems.

That's fair I suppose and like I said in my reply to Frog at some point "bigger, faster, stronger" becomes dangerous the more physical the sport.

It still seems odd to argue that steroids are a no because of side effects when the sport you're playing turns your brain into goo which leads to depression/suicide.

 

[Frog]

Injection alone isn't going to do it. Guys are still going to need to put in their time in the gym.

In reality yes, but this was in response to Jaric's point that effectiveness of a substance shouldnt mean anything.

So if we have this hypothetical miracle substance (no side effects), that is so effective it requires minimal physical training, then should that subtance be allowed? Jaric seems to think yes.

Again it depends on how you think the game should be played. Look at the workout routine for guys like JJ Watt and you realize part of why he's the best is because of how hard he works. Thats a part of football. If you allow the hypothetical substance then you take that away that aspect of the game.

 

[Jaric]

In reality yes, but this was in response to Jaric's point that effectiveness of a substance shouldnt mean anything.

So if we have this hypothetical miracle substance (no side effects), that is so effective it requires minimal physical training, then should that subtance be allowed? Jaric seems to think yes.

Again it depends on how you think the game should be played. Look at the workout routine for guys like JJ Watt and you realize part of why he's the best is because of how hard he works. Thats a part of football. If you allow the hypothetical substance then you take that away that aspect of the game.

Where do you decide where to draw the line?

 

[Mazz22]

In reality yes, but this was in response to Jaric's point that effectiveness of a substance shouldnt mean anything.

So if we have this hypothetical miracle substance (no side effects), that is so effective it requires minimal physical training, then should that subtance be allowed? Jaric seems to think yes.

Again it depends on how you think the game should be played. Look at the workout routine for guys like JJ Watt and you realize part of why he's the best is because of how hard he works. Thats a part of football. If you allow the hypothetical substance then you take that away that aspect of the game.

How can you be sure with Watt? Merriman looked like a beast before getting busted and was never the same again.

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

That's fair I suppose and like I said in my reply to Frog at some point "bigger, faster, stronger" becomes dangerous the more physical the sport.

It still seems odd to argue that steroids are a no because of side effects when the sport you're playing turns your brain into goo which leads to depression/suicide.

Everything should be legal...it would end a lot of the hypocrisy. MANY players are already doing it now (and have been for a long time) obviously.

Clay Matthews for an example was a scrawny dude when he started college...and just a few months down the road he was pretty big. All natural of course!

 

[Jaric]

How can you be sure with Watt? Merriman looked like a beast before getting busted and was never the same again.

Because he tells you how hard he works duh.

 

[PatriotInIndy]

Or a geriatric ManninHGH. If there was ever an NFL poster child for "this is your body not on drugs/this is your body on drugs" it is Pey Pey*.

LaRon Landry might argue with you on this.

 

[Mazz22]

LaRon Landry might argue with you on this.

Yeah. There are countless examples in every sport.

 

[Frog]

Where do you decide where to draw the line?

Personally I would draw the line at any substance you take into your body that yields extreme improvements to your physical abilities beyond what you can achieve through regular diet/exercise and some “minor” supplements.

 

[Jaric]

LaRon Landry might argue with you on this.

You could light up a room with that dude's piss. Shit was probably radioactive.

 

[Mazz22]

Personally I would draw the line at any substance you take into your body that yields extreme improvements to your physical abilities beyond what you can achieve through regular diet/exercise and some “minor” supplements.

I would agree with this. THe NFL's drug policy is quite extensive actually. Not that long ago they added in the masking agents that are used to cover PED use. Having the masking agent gets you 4 games. Same as PEDs.

 

[Frog]

How can you be sure with Watt? Merriman looked like a beast before getting busted and was never the same again.

Just from what I saw on hard knocks along with testimony from players and coaches. It's just an example though. Typically any player that goes above and beyond with their physical training will improve their game.