Do you "really" care about players using steroids?

[tehmackdaddy]

What I was trying to articulate was that it's essentially a naturally occurring substance in your body that can increase your performance at increased levels.

Correct from only a very generalized perspective.

 

[Jaric]

Correct from only a very generalized perspective.

Which was all I was going for lol. I was just responding to the idea that there fundamentally different which at a core level they're the same kind of thing.

 

[Mazz22]

So basically, no, we're going to derail a civil conversation because you want to discuss something unrelated. If only there were dozens of threads dedicated to having this exact conversation you want to have!

Boy for a poster that posts snarky comments all the time, you sure can't take it when someone else does.

Derailing? This topic has gone on for what 6 pages? Injecting some humor at a Dolts fans expense is par for the course around here. Stop being a Sally.

 

[tehmackdaddy]

Which was all I was going for lol. I was just responding to the idea that there fundamentally different which at a core level they're the same kind of thing.

Fair enough, but creatine supplementation has more in common with eating more protein and getting enough sleep than artificially introducing a synthetically produced hormone not found in a person's diet. I'd put HGH in the same class as steroids (both are a hormone, both cannot be found in food), but not supplements like creatine, fish oil, vitamins & minerals, etc. (which can be obtained from food and are not actual hormones) even though there are benefits to taking them.

I'm not trying to be nitpicky, I just see a large gap between the two classes.

 

[Jaric]

Fair enough, but creatine supplementation has more in common with eating more protein and getting enough sleep than artificially introducing a synthetically produced hormone not found in a person's diet. I'd put HGH in the same class as steroids (both are a hormone, both cannot be found in food), but not supplements like creatine, fish oil, vitamins & minerals, etc. (which can be obtained from food and are not actual hormones) even though there are benefits to taking them.

I'm not trying to be nitpicky, I just see a large gap between the two classes.

I think that's a fair distinction.

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

What I was trying to articulate was that it's essentially a naturally occurring substance in your body that can increase your performance at increased levels.

It's way ovah/rated...but, if you like eating sand...by all means, get ya sum uv that!

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

Here is the thing, and forgive me if someone already made this point.

While I agree with the libertarian idea of they are adults and should be able to choose for themselves, if they are NOT against the rules, one would assume it would be more acceptable to take them, so more players would. Many players that do play by the rules now may feel that they have to start taking them, and their bad side effects, just to be competitive.

This is currently happening now and has been for some time...

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

Typically any player that goes above and beyond with their physical training will improve their game.

I would certainly hope so!

 

[dchester]

Injection alone isn't going to do it. Guys are still going to need to put in their time in the gym.

From what I read a while back, there is stuff (like the designer roids that Bonds took) that don't require any time in the gym.

I got suspicious when it looked like his head was even getting bigger.

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

From what I read a while back, there is stuff (like the designer roids that Bonds took) that don't require any time in the gym.

I got suspicious when it looked like his head was even getting bigger.

"The Lazy Man's Way to Getting Huge!"
​

...great headline right there!

 

[tehmackdaddy]

From what I read a while back, there is stuff (like the designer roids that Bonds took) that don't require any time in the gym.

There will be some effects from the hormonal changes the elevated testosterone level creates, but it isn't going to turn a sedentary person into Mr. Olympia. Baseline levels of muscle may increase a little, baseline levels of fat may decrease a little, but to get real results a person will need to work hard in the gym, even when juicing.

 

[Mazz22]

There will be some effects from the hormonal changes the elevated testosterone level creates, but it isn't going to turn a sedentary person into Mr. Olympia. Baseline levels of muscle may increase a little, baseline levels of fat may decrease a little, but to get real results a person will need to work hard in the gym, even when juicing.

Wait. You mean creatine and HGH aren't the same thing?

 

[PatsFan09]

Everybody is caught up in the big names, but when you go back, read the reports, look at the guys that got caught...the pitchers were FAR outnumbering the hitters. There was a period back in the late 80's-mid 90's where every middle inning scrub in pretty much every bullpen was throwing mid-upper 90s. Nobody was clean.

Doesn't make it right. :shrug:

---------- Post added at 06:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------

So if tomorrow Roger came out and announced "We no longer give a shit what you guys do," you have no issues? It's just a legality thing for you?

Where did I say that?
No, I'm a true purist. As I already said, athletes should only depend on their natural traits.
That's it.

 

[PatsFan09]

It's already happening now...no one is forcing anything. And I'd be willing to bet that most have been doing it since high school. I've been around the block for some time now... This isn't anything new or shocking...at least it shouldn't be. It's like politics. Do you think that politics are clean and legit?

I'm around high level high school athletes every day. Many of them don't touch a thing.
Hen again, with all of your tinfoil conspiracies, I'm not surprised that you believe this.

 

[deec77]

I think that's a fair distinction.

A fair distinction would be giving someone hormones to change their gender and taking hormones to bulk up same hormones different purpose .

If I remember correctly you can eat seaweed or a steak and get the same effect as taking creatine.

Apples and oranges

~Dee~

 

[Jaric]

Doesn't make it right. :shrug:

---------- Post added at 06:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------


Where did I say that?
No, I'm a true purist. As I already said, athletes should only depend on their natural traits.
That's it.

Well I thought you did in the post I quoted. So what's your take on creatine or similar legal supplements? Or I guess in other words, where's your line "depending on natural traits?"

---------- Post added at 08:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:20 PM ----------

I'm around high level high school athletes every day. Many of them don't touch a thing.
Hen again, with all of your tinfoil conspiracies, I'm not surprised that you believe this.

I can't speak for now, but 15 years ago we wouldn't even know how to get them if we wanted them. No clue how representative that experiance is for the record.

 

[Mazz22]

I can't speak for now, but 15 years ago we wouldn't even know how to get them if we wanted them. No clue how representative that experiance is for the record.

This thread would have had more relevance 15 or 20 years ago. The steroid debate has been beaten to death. It is never getting legalized in pro sports. If anything, more drugs will be added to the ban list and testing increased.

 

[R+L=Negan]

I think the cats out of the bag so to speak? It's just so prevalent throughout hs, college and pros. Very much ingrained in the culture of elite sports at every level.

I wouldn't be surprised if athletes are spiking Gorilla testosterone. Like I really wouldn't be surprised if we heard something crazy to that effect.

It's amazing if you think about the shit they put in themselves on top of the average life expectancy for a football player (minus kickers). They work so hard to make money their almost certainly going to lose. And train so hard only to see life's stop sign at 55.

 

[TommyD420]

I'll be honest, only reason I get mad when a dude gets popped is because he got caught and will have to miss games. He can be shooting ground up black market rhino dick directly into his balls 24 hours a day for all I care if it lets him jump out of the gym.

I have no moral issues with steroids at all and I'm curious if I'm the only one.

Nope. I have zero ****s to give if an athlete wants to use steroids.

I do think this opinion is generational. All the baseball purists who were "burned" by 1998 (even though everyone knew they were taking steroids 2 decades before) are the ones who get all bent out of shape about it. Bob Costas, etc.

The rest of us really don't care. Because, you know, they're making lots of money and they would almost all sign a waiver to their health if they had to.

You want to hate Jose Canseco? Hate him because he's really good at taking steroids, and also that he's an asshole. Not because he took steroids, because he was far from the only one.

 

[Big/Sky/Fly]

There will be some effects from the hormonal changes the elevated testosterone level creates, but it isn't going to turn a sedentary person into Mr. Olympia. Baseline levels of muscle may increase a little, baseline levels of fat may decrease a little, but to get real results a person will need to work hard in the gym, even when juicing.

The recovery with this stuff is amazing! That's why people can get huge results with it. You can do a set of max reps...and a minute or two later do another max set...repeat this how many times you want. It's like a re generator.