Julio Jones

[spacecrime]

on, there is a huge difference between improving and being the league MVP.

All I am saying is that there is a chance he could improve, given that he was trying to learn a complex system without OTAs or preseson games while he was hurt and had COVID.

IMO opinion to say there is ZERO chance he could improve at all is ridiculous.

But no one here said they expect Newton to be the 2015 version. Don't go channeling your inner Midgar here. We'll see what happens but consider that saying it is impossible precludes ANY improvement inspite a second year in the system, when most imporvement generally occurs.

Edit: Ha ha. I thought I was talking to Mazz and was surprised she was putting words into peoples' mouths just like you do. The joke's on me. It was you!

 

[rivshark86]

I don’t understand why anyone is optimistic about Cam. He’s 78 and 67 as a starter for his career, and is well past his prime. Even if he doubles his TD production. A good improvement. It’s not good enough. It’s scary because Mac will need time. The longer he can sit the better. That’s why Julio doesn’t matter. Julio will not be around long enough to help Mac.
Please BB save the pick whatever it would be. Save it, and draft someone decent who can be here for four or 5 years.

Of course that’s contingent on BB being able to draft a good offensive skill player, and no Sony doesn’t count. He needs a hole the size of a truck to run though, but yes he does excel when he can get to the second level. It just rarely happens. Trent can open those holes up. That’s what happened that Super Bowl run. Incredible run blocking. It wasn’t Sony’s vision, that’s for sure. He runs into his offensive lineman’s back four times for 3 yards then once a game against a bad run defense will break a 40 yard scamper to get his stats up.

 

[Roberto71]

That's a highly subjective view.

 

[chevss454]

just saw a tweet from someone saying it's a done deal for a 2nd and possibly a 6th or 7th next year. I don't give these tweeter's much credit. says won't be announced until June 1st as falcons get most cap relief then. that part sounds reasonable.
(guy is John Vogel ??)

(It could happen before June 1 but be designated for after June 1.)

For those who think trading for JJones would be unprecedented for BB...
BB gave up a 1st and a 3rd for Brandin Cooks and a 4th in 2018.
BB gave up a 2nd for Sanu in 2019.

There's plenty of precedence for BB to trade that kind of draft capital for a WR.

 

[Mazz22]

Florio is reporting that Atlanta has a #1 pick secured from a team. I can't imagine it is us but who knows.

 

[chevss454]

Cam Newton has 78 wins and 67 losses as a starter in his NFL career.

It's funny to me that wins and losses isn't a QB stat until it fits the agenda of the person using it.

BTW, Trent Dilfer, Jim Plunkett, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson, Joe Namath, Kurt Warner and Eli Manning all won a SB with worse records.

Cam's W/L is .538.
Here are a few QBs who are currently starters in the league with worse W/L records.

Matt Stafford
Deshaun Watson
Ryan Tannehill
Baker Mayfield
Andy Dalton
Carson Wentz
Kirk Cousins
Derek Carr
Kyler Murray
Daniel Jones
Sam Darnold

Then there is Matt Ryan whose W/L record is only a few percentage points higher at .544.

Who knew?!

 

[chevss454]

Florio is reporting that Atlanta has a #1 pick secured from a team. I can't imagine it is us but who knows.

Link? Is he using Dianna Russini's report from a few days ago to support his report? With that 1st, how much of Julio's 2021 salary are the Falcons paying?

 

[Phil Elliott]

Link? Is he using Dianna Russini's report from a few days ago to support his report? With that 1st, how much of Julio's 2021 salary are the Falcons paying?

Florio's piece includes healthy skepticism re: the truth of Atlanta's claim. The skepticism includes his own and officials from other teams. To be clear, Florio is NOT confirming Atlanta has a #1pick on the table. He's confirming they claim to have that. HUGE difference.

 

[spacecrime]

Your second paragraph is really spot on. There has been a sea change in our team building philosophy and I see that as a huge positive. We needed to change post Brady and I am excited that it has.

I think the sea change was having $100 million in cap space. That was the big change. Buying a lot of quality free agents at a time when there was little competition because most teams were against the cap and he had the mney. But if you pay attention, even when BB has very little money he tries to fill holes with FAs and then select best available player (which always upsets people who want players drafted in certain areas, which isn't likely to happen. BB is a best player available guy. Was and still is.

 

[spacecrime]

That's a highly subjective view.

It makes sense if you understand the rules:

Everything that Brady does/says is cast in the highly golden light of heaven. Anything anyone else does is interpreted in the way that makes Brady look better by comparison.

 

[Mazz22]

Link? Is he using Dianna Russini's report from a few days ago to support his report? With that 1st, how much of Julio's 2021 salary are the Falcons paying?

Falcons repeat report that Falcons have first-round pick on table for Julio Jones

The Falcons, miffed by the blow to their trade leverage that came from Julio Jones' "I'm out of there" comments on FS1, are using their own website to build back some of it.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Supposedly the Falcons confirmed they have a #1 pick in hand. I have no idea about the salary. Those types of specifics can't be announced until June 2.

 

[Hawg73]

It's funny to me that wins and losses isn't a QB stat until it fits the agenda of the person using it.

BTW, Trent Dilfer, Jim Plunkett, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson, Joe Namath, Kurt Warner and Eli Manning all won a SB with worse records.

Cam's W/L is .538.
Here are a few QBs who are currently starters in the league with worse W/L records.

Matt Stafford
Deshaun Watson
Ryan Tannehill
Baker Mayfield
Andy Dalton
Carson Wentz
Kirk Cousins
Derek Carr
Kyler Murray
Daniel Jones
Sam Darnold

Then there is Matt Ryan whose W/L record is only a few percentage points higher at .544.

Who knew?!

Well illustrated. That about sums it up.

The last time I checked, football was a team game that required a comprehensive organizational effort to win and has never been about
crediting solely or blaming solely a team's overall record on one player whether he is a QB or a long snapper. His career record is actually
the team's record. It's a specious stat that was used to "win" an argument, but like many statistics falls short of an accurate picture of one man's
performance.

Carolina has been a very up and down team over the Newton era and that should not all be placed on his broad shoulder pads and funny hats.

We've put Cam in the driver's seat again, have shown him great patience and provided him with a much more talented group of teammates to go
along with a mature, diverse system in which he could flourish. All the ingredients are in place, but what will happen between the sidelines in 2021 is a complete
unknown. I think Newton is, first and foremost, a highly competitive person who understands fully that the stage is set and the spotlights will be trained
squarely on him and the rest of it will be a fascinating roll of the dice.

While I'm a total believer in Mac Jones, I'd be perfectly content to see him percolate on the bench and see Cam Newton shut the critics up. I really want to see
him turn things around and have the kind of success on the field that his outstanding leadership during a tumultuous 2020 season truly deserves. That is not
the only scenario we may see in the coming season, but it is perhaps the best one for this team.

 

[aloyouis]

If it is, then part of that is that you can't fathom that Cam might actually be better than he was last year. That there were major issues beyond his control or influence. You seem content to write a former NFL MVP off as a scrub, because, apparently, it is impossible that he could gain a solid grasp of the offense and throw better than when he was clearly struggling with foot and shoulder issues. Issues which are not necessarily chronic.

Look, it isn't a certainty either way, but your refusal to consider the possibility that he could perform much better in 2021 is frustrating. He might very well do that and the best coach in NFL history seems to think so too. It's that simple.

Therefore, I believe he could be significantly improved and form a good connection with a guy that has been one of the best WRs of the last decade plus contrasted to that he formed with a guy that had his brain stove in twice last season and probably should have have been placed on IR. That scenario does not seem unreasonable to me.

Call me a dreamer.

Like Mazz, I have little faith in Cam's ability to be better by enough over last year to be the starter. That said, I see no reason to disagree with your logic above, if for no other reason than the bolded part.

I'm torn. I want the Pats to win every game, every week. Cam may give them the best short term chances to win, but he isn't the long term answer and we aren't winning many playoff games with him in there. I want Mac to be the next long term good to great QB for the Pats and I want that to happen as fast as possible because if he is I do see them winning PO games. Maybe more. Like I said, I'm torn.

 

[Mazz22]

It's funny to me that wins and losses isn't a QB stat until it fits the agenda of the person using it.

BTW, Trent Dilfer, Jim Plunkett, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson, Joe Namath, Kurt Warner and Eli Manning all won a SB with worse records.

Cam's W/L is .538.
Here are a few QBs who are currently starters in the league with worse W/L records.

Matt Stafford
Deshaun Watson
Ryan Tannehill
Baker Mayfield
Andy Dalton
Carson Wentz
Kirk Cousins
Derek Carr
Kyler Murray
Daniel Jones
Sam Darnold

Then there is Matt Ryan whose W/L record is only a few percentage points higher at .544.

Who knew?!

I am not a huge believer in W/L defining a QB either but your list is not fair to the context of the discussion. It is best to only include QBs with 100 starts or more as Cam has been in the league ten years. That would eliminate Murray, Watson, Jones, Darnold and Mayfield.

So that leaves a list of:
Stafford
Tanny
Dalton
Wentz
Cousins
Carr

This list is pretty much where Newton belongs. He is not a guy that has ever been able to elevate his team except for 2015 when he won MVP. But that season is a complete outlier. In 10 seasons as a starter, he has only 3 winning seasons. That is pretty much the theme of all of these "losing" QBs. It's not just the W/L record, it's the number of losing seasons. The good/great QBs get 10 wins a season on average and a post-season birth. That is what separates them from the pack of mediocre QBs that are good enough to be starters but don't elevate those around them enough to get their teams to the post-season regularly. That has been Cam his entire career before he had his devastating shoulder injury. Now he is a QB whose mechanics are all out of whack because he had to change his throwing motion to compensate on top of a severe foot injury that could still bother him this year like it did last year.

What is tough about Cam is it is clear that his teammates love him, he has natural leadership and charm. He works very hard. To me, these qualities are paramount as they really can't be taught. Either a player has them innately or they don't. That being said, you still have to be able to physically play the position and Cam just can't do it anymore. Even at his best, he was always an average to below average passer.

 

[Phil Elliott]

Florio's lead story as of 10:56 am: "Patriots become the betting favorites to land Julio Jones."

 

[spacecrime]

I said zero chance because I thought I was answering Mazz. That is what she said.

But in addition, I mistakenly thought SHE posted this:


Our (Mazz'and my) discussion was that I thought there was a chance Cam could get better and she thought there wsa no chance for that to happen. So when she said she couldn't understand why everyone wants the 2015 MVP Cam back I was surprised. No one had said that, all we had said was there was a chance. The thing you should think about is that I thought it was Mazz writing and I was very surprised she'd say something like that. I teased her not to channel her inner Middie because that is the type of thing you'd write: Put words in peoples' mouths so as to be able to shoot them down.

The reason I'm posting is to ask you to consider that mistake of mine: You pattern and style of trolling is so recognizable you might as well have it trademarked. How sad is it that you are recognized when someone else changes a quote from "He might get better" to "Why does everyone expect Cam to be the player he was in 2015?" (His MVP year, as you know.)

Why do you think you keep getting caught when you change forum IDs? New ID, same old troll. At this point I believe the forum would be better to Assclown you and reinstate Hogfarmer. Not cool, dude.

 

[chevss454]

Falcons repeat report that Falcons have first-round pick on table for Julio Jones

The Falcons, miffed by the blow to their trade leverage that came from Julio Jones' "I'm out of there" comments on FS1, are using their own website to build back some of it.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Supposedly the Falcons confirmed they have a #1 pick in hand. I have no idea about the salary. Those types of specifics can't be announced until June 2.

The trade is made with a June 2 designation but the trade can be done anytime and announced publicly anytime. It can also already be in the NFL's hands anytime but it won't show up on the transaction wire until the designation date.

Interesting the Falcons don't say they like or dislike the offer made. Better offers could include a player and/or no contingencies and/or conditions.
Just bc it's a 1st doesn't mean it's better than other offers.

 

[chevss454]

I said zero chance because I thought I was answering Mazz. That is what she said.

But in addition, I mistakenly thought SHE posted this:



Our (Mazz'and my) discussion was that I thought there was a chance Cam could get better and she thought there wsa no chance for that to happen. So when she said she couldn't understand why everyone wants the 2015 MVP Cam back I was surprised. No one had said that, all we had said was there was a chance. The thing you should think about is that I thought it was Mazz writing and I was very surprised she'd say something like that. I teased her not to channel her inner Middie because that is the type of thing you'd write: Put words in peoples' mouths so as to be able to shoot them down.

The reason I'm posting is to ask you to consider that mistake of mine: You pattern and style of trolling is so recognizable you might as well have it trademarked. How sad is it that you are recognized when someone else changes a quote from "He might get better" to "Why does everyone expect Cam to be the player he was in 2015?" (His MVP year, as you know.)

Why do you think you keep getting caught when you change forum IDs? New ID, same old troll. At this point I believe the forum would be better to Assclown you and reinstate Hogfarmer. Not cool, dude.

Wait...are you saying Middy is also Mazz?

 

[chevss454]

I am not a huge believer in W/L defining a QB either but your list is not fair to the context of the discussion. It is best to only include QBs with 100 starts or more as Cam has been in the league ten years. That would eliminate Murray, Watson, Jones, Darnold and Mayfield.

So that leaves a list of:
Stafford
Tanny
Dalton
Wentz
Cousins
Carr

This list is pretty much where Newton belongs. He is not a guy that has ever been able to elevate his team except for 2015 when he won MVP. But that season is a complete outlier. In 10 seasons as a starter, he has only 3 winning seasons. That is pretty much the theme of all of these "losing" QBs. It's not just the W/L record, it's the number of losing seasons. The good/great QBs get 10 wins a season on average and a post-season birth. That is what separates them from the pack of mediocre QBs that are good enough to be starters but don't elevate those around them enough to get their teams to the post-season regularly. That has been Cam his entire career before he had his devastating shoulder injury. Now he is a QB whose mechanics are all out of whack because he had to change his throwing motion to compensate on top of a severe foot injury that could still bother him this year like it did last year.

What is tough about Cam is it is clear that his teammates love him, he has natural leadership and charm. He works very hard. To me, these qualities are paramount as they really can't be taught. Either a player has them innately or they don't. That being said, you still have to be able to physically play the position and Cam just can't do it anymore. Even at his best, he was always an average to below average passer.

You're changing the rules to fit your needs. I disagree.