Looking at the Patriots - 2015

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Roberto71 said:
Would you pay US40M guaranteed cash for a player? Who will be 30 when the season starts?
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I'm by no means an expert when it comes to the cap but a 40M guarantee spread out correctly (easy to say) on Revis wouldn't scare me. If I recall correctly, that 40M guarantee is basically for three years of service and they can then cut him for a minimal loss.

Revis is a technique and intellect player - not a player that relies on his speed to cover. Even if he lost a step in year three (doubtful) he'd still be top 3 corner in the league and will be for the next 3-5 years.

Not saying we should of paid the man 40M as I don't know how the spider web works when it comes to signing our other up and coming players but he is most definitely worth the 40.
 
My displeasure with the Revis situation stems more from not aggressively pursuing and paying ( or slightly overpaying) an extension PRIOR to him reaching FA that better fit the parameters and structured to be absorbed more easily by this team.

It wasn't any secret there were gonna be teams with exhorbitant cap space available and a Planet Player to spend it on.
 
Wiluven said:
I'm by no means an expert when it comes to the cap but a 40M guarantee spread out correctly (easy to say) on Revis wouldn't scare me. If I recall correctly, that 40M guarantee is basically for three years of service and they can then cut him for a minimal loss.

Revis is a technique and intellect player - not a player that relies on his speed to cover. Even if he lost a step in year three (doubtful) he'd still be top 3 corner in the league and will be for the next 3-5 years.

Not saying we should of paid the man 40M as I don't know how the spider web works when it comes to signing our other up and coming players but he is most definitely worth the 40.
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OK, so assuming Pats agreed to fully guarantee (for the first 3 years) a $13,333,334 per year contract, what would have happened once the Jets heard about it and agreed to guarantee 42 mil?
 
Dwight Schrute said:
My displeasure with the Revis situation stems more from not aggressively pursuing and paying ( or slightly overpaying) an extension PRIOR to him reaching FA that better fit the parameters and structured to be absorbed more easily by this team.

It wasn't any secret there were gonna be teams with exhorbitant cap space available and a Planet Player to spend it on.
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He wanted to go into FA. His contract guaranteed him the opportunity unless the Pats paid him exorbitantly. It was a big reason he was willing to sign the contract to come here.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
My displeasure with the Revis situation stems more from not aggressively pursuing and paying ( or slightly overpaying) an extension PRIOR to him reaching FA that better fit the parameters and structured to be absorbed more easily by this team.

It wasn't any secret there were gonna be teams with exhorbitant cap space available and a Planet Player to spend it on.
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Once the Jets <strike>tampered with Revis</strike> some how got it out there that they might be interested in Revis, there was no way Revis was going to sign a new deal with the Pats until he found out how high the Jets would go.
 
Roberto71 said:
Would you pay US40M guaranteed cash for a player? Who will be 30 when the season starts?
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If his name is Darrelle Revis? Yup.

I mean, go look through my history, I've always been a "Patriots have a value on a guy and that's it" kinda guy (Welker, most notably, Mankins, Wilfork, Mayo, Samuel, Benny, I've been pretty consistent).

None of those players are Darrelle Revis. Not even close.

The Patriots chose to make their defense appreciably worse, because it was easy and because it saved Kraft a few bucks in cash. And that's the story.

Can you rebuild this defense and coach it up to say "a'ight" level? Maybe. Can you win the AFC with "a'ight"? Probably. There were only a'ight defenses in the playoffs last year in the AFC...save for New England of course.

But they didn't have to take that kind of hit from being a top 10 defense. They chose to, and the inexplicably overpaid McCourty on top of it.

That's why there are people who are pissed off about it. Especially now that the kool-aid spin machine is in full force, and we have always been at war with EastAsia.

I'm on record saying not re-signing Revis was a mistake. Any "cap hell" (and there were re-structures available to get to a flexible number, your QB is making nearly $20m less than Drew Brees this year) would have been a "this year only" situation, and would have been helped by more dead money coming off the cap.

But we get it. IBWT. Fine.

BB and Caserio are going to have to absolutely nail this draft, and I'll reserve judgment on the team's outlook until camp, like I've said all along.

They don't give out trophies for winning free agency, or the draft, or preseason, or Week 1 - unless you're another team in the AFC East that is. :coffee:
 
Dwight Schrute said:
They had just signed Graham.

No. They couldn't afford to keep them. And it gets worse next year.
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Overpaying guys and not wanting to pay them is absolutley justified. Blaming the cap is ludicrous on their part. I wouldn't have paid Graham that contract either.
 
For the most part, the salary cap can be "creatively flexed"...and be manipulated. Dead money though would be pretty difficult to "morph" though I think.
 
EasyDeflatedFella said:
Overpaying guys and not wanting to pay them is absolutley justified. Blaming the cap is ludicrous on their part. I wouldn't have paid Graham that contract either.
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You're in a very distinct minority.

By all measures he's been considered top 5, maybe top 3, TE in the league for some time.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
They had just signed Graham.

No. They couldn't afford to keep them. And it gets worse next year.
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Here's the thing.

Just because there are teams out there dumb enough to be in "cap hell", doesn't mean that with decent management it should ever happen.

The Saints, I mean, you've got Drew Brees at 36 years old with a $26 million cap hit this year, they had to trade fragile Jimmy Graham, whom they overpaid at 4/40 with 20m guaranteed, the corpse of Marques Colston was due to make $6m before they restructured (to $3.8m is all they got him down to). For some reason they paid Jarius Byrd 6/54 with 26 million guaranteed, Junior Gallette is making more than $1m/sack.

Their punter...IN A DOME STADIUM...is making $4m/yr

Broderick Bunkley - $3.2 million for a 32-year-old JAG at best who can't stay healthy.
Jahari Evans - is a really good player, but $11 million cap hit for a guard?
Dannell Ellerbe is making $8.4 million this year. I think that's more than the base salaries for all the LBs on the Patriots roster combined. He'll be 30 this year.
Cameron Jordan- $7.0 million this year, 7.5 sacks last year.

-(Comparison career: Jordan - 64 GP 29.5 sacks, 5 FF, Chandler Jones - 40 GP, 23.5 Sacks, 6 FF. Jones went #21 in 2012, Jordan went #24 in 2011)

In other words, the Saints had no ****ing clue how to manage the cap, signed horrible contracts for (mostly) marginal players, and it bit them in the ass.

You have to be completely incompetent for an NFL team to get into anything resembling "cap hell". There are, sadly, many teams that can't math very well in their front office (Miami, for example). The Patriots certainly could never be confused for incompetent. :coffee:
 
TommyD420 said:
Here's the thing.

Just because there are teams out there dumb enough to be in "cap hell", doesn't mean that with decent management it should ever happen.

The Saints, I mean, you've got Drew Brees at 36 years old with a $26 million cap hit this year, they had to trade fragile Jimmy Graham, whom they overpaid at 4/40 with 20m guaranteed, the corpse of Marques Colston was due to make $6m before they restructured (to $3.8m is all they got him down to). For some reason they paid Jarius Byrd 6/54 with 26 million guaranteed, Junior Gallette is making more than $1m/sack.

Their punter...IN A DOME STADIUM...is making $4m/yr

Broderick Bunkley - $3.2 million for a 32-year-old JAG at best who can't stay healthy.
Jahari Evans - is a really good player, but $11 million cap hit for a guard?
Dannell Ellerbe is making $8.4 million this year. I think that's more than the base salaries for all the LBs on the Patriots roster combined. He'll be 30 this year.
Cameron Jordan- $7.0 million this year, 7.5 sacks last year.

-(Comparison career: Jordan - 64 GP 29.5 sacks, 5 FF, Chandler Jones - 40 GP, 23.5 Sacks, 6 FF. Jones went #21 in 2012, Jordan went #24 in 2011)

In other words, the Saints had no ****ing clue how to manage the cap, signed horrible contracts for (mostly) marginal players, and it bit them in the ass.

You have to be completely incompetent for an NFL team to get into anything resembling "cap hell". There are, sadly, many teams that can't math very well in their front office (Miami, for example). The Patriots certainly could never be confused for incompetent. :coffee:
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I agree 100%.

I'm just pointing out cap hell does exist. For the stoopid.

Btw, I'm glad you mention Miami. It's gonna be a joy to watch the true cost of Suh unfold.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
I agree 100%.

I'm just pointing out cap hell does exist. For the stoopid.

Btw, I'm glad you mention Miami. It's gonna be a joy to watch the true cost of Suh unfold.
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I mean, you let Hartline and Gibson and Clay and Starks and Odrick walk...You keep Mike Wallace, only to trade him (and end up having to pay him some money), you trade for Kenny Stills for Ellerbe (not a bad trade on paper, but they're paying Ellerbe a piece this year, and the question no one has asked...
Why are the Saints trading a guy coming off a 60+ catch season after only 2 years, and still on his rookie contract?)
 
TommyD420 said:
I mean, you let Hartline and Gibson and Clay and Starks and Odrick walk...You keep Mike Wallace, only to trade him (and end up having to pay him some money), you trade for Kenny Stills for Ellerbe (not a bad trade on paper, but they're paying Ellerbe a piece this year, and the question no one has asked...
Why are the Saints trading a guy coming off a 60+ catch season after only 2 years, and still on his rookie contract?)
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They are loading up on draft picks. They also got a third-round pick in that trade and now have five picks in the first three rounds of the draft. Two 1st round picks, a 2nd round pick and two picks in round 3.
 
Defsoul said:
They are loading up on draft picks. They also got a third-round pick in that trade and now have five picks in the first three rounds of the draft. Two 1st round picks, a 2nd round pick and two picks in round 3.
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Took on a bad contract and gave up a pretty productive WR still on his rookie contract for a 3rd round pick?

Doesn't smell right to me. :coffee:
 
Defsoul said:
They are loading up on draft picks. They also got a third-round pick in that trade and now have five picks in the first three rounds of the draft. Two 1st round picks, a 2nd round pick and two picks in round 3.
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TommyD420 said:
Took on a bad contract and gave up a pretty productive WR still on his rookie contract for a 3rd round pick?

Doesn't smell right to me. :coffee:
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In what most pundits I've read are declaring a mediocre draft.

Wise.
 
TommyD420 said:
Took on a bad contract and gave up a pretty productive WR still on his rookie contract for a 3rd round pick?

Doesn't smell right to me. :coffee:
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Basically, they're trying to deal with their cap hell issue this year (and will likely suck worse than they did last year), with the hope of retooling later.

Now as to whether they're doing a good job at it, is another story.

:shrug:
 
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