Looking at the Patriots 2024

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chevss454 said:
More dumpster diving.


View: https://twitter.com/JustCeceSports/status/1768111048220201220
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Maybe I'm in the vast minority here, but I actually like what the Patriots have done in free agency so far. Take care of your own FAs, and not overpay for good but not great players. I was afraid that Kraft might over correct and pay for many good but not great 30ish players just to have a quick turnaround, but the kind of turnaround that isn't sustainable.

I think that they will/should spend to the cap this year, but without significantly tapping into or severely leveraging future cap, and save the large future cap surplus for when they know what they have at QB.

They still have plenty of cap space to add quality players, whether it be via standard free agency, trades, or at cut downs. They then have the most draft capital they've had in over 20 years to aquire talented players. This year's cap management approach should be cautious with an eye to maximizing the future.

That being said, the rationale for having a sensible and frugal approach this year is setting up for a more aggressive well timed (QB) cap approach in the future, which I'm not confident Kraft would endorse.
 
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Yeah, Pats are doing well with their signings but I really wish they'd have re-signed Pharaoh Brown instead of Austin Hooper. Remember that the O sucked last year and while Hunter Henry and Mike Onwenu were good to sign, they didn't improve us. We ar ejust maintaining the status quo.

There are two good FA OTs and we signed a couple of mediocre jags. They have more money than almost every other team. There's no excuse for being outbid for one of them, and I'd rather see then sign both. That would fix the OLine for our new rookie QB.

Otherwise SOJ is now SOP. The new regime hasn't signed any more playmakers than BB, and at least BB signed better FAs, mid-level vs the current slappies.
 
spacecrime said:
Yeah, Pats are doing well with their signings but I really wish they'd have re-signed Pharaoh Brown instead of Austin Hooper. Remember that the O sucked last year and while Hunter Henry and Mike Onwenu were good to sign, they didn't improve us. We ar ejust maintaining the status quo.

There are two good FA OTs and we signed a couple of mediocre jags. They have more money than almost every other team. There's no excuse for being outbid for one of them, and I'd rather see then sign both. That would fix the OLine for our new rookie QB.

Otherwise SOJ is now SOP. The new regime hasn't signed any more playmakers than BB, and at least BB signed better FAs, mid-level vs the current slappies.
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Money is only part of it, the player, and where he wants to go is another part.

Smith is on the old side with a lengthy injury history; is near the end of his career, and may want one last shot at a ring. Are the Patriots out because of the first part, or is Smith out on the Patriots because of the second part?


And alot of people say that the money is all that matters, but over the years there are a number of FAs that came here because they wanted to be coached by BB....that changing maybe as big of a problem as the 4-13 record and the current rudderless ship.
 
DarnSyd said:
Maybe I'm in the vast minority here, but I actually like what the Patriots have done in free agency so far. Take care of your own FAs, and not overpay for good but not great players. I was afraid that Kraft might over correct and pay for many good but not great 30ish players just to have a quick turnaround, but the kind of turnaround that isn't sustainable.

I think that they will/should spend to the cap this year, but without significantly tapping into or severely leveraging future cap, and save the large future cap surplus for when they know what they have at QB.

They still have plenty of cap space to add quality players, whether it be via standard free agency, trades, or at cut downs. They then have the most draft capital they've had in over 20 years to aquire talented players. This year's cap management approach should be cautious with an eye to maximizing the future.

That being said, the rationale for having a sensible and frugal approach this year is setting up for a more aggressive well timed (QB) cap approach in the future, which I'm not confident Kraft would endorse.
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Here's the thing with that part. 'Your own FAs' were on a 4-13 team last year. The team had zero pro bowlers. It's really nice you got Josh Uche, who played like 15 snaps last year, to come back on a cheap deal. Neat.

Your point about 30 year old players is correct - of course, half the FAs signed from the dumpster are 30.

Here's the major difference between this year, and years past. There is a major deficiency in talent, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Nobody disagrees with that. If this were a typical year, then sure, I'd like to see the Patriots be 'smart' with their dumpster diving - but this year you had 100 million. That's ONE HUNDRED MILLION in cap space. TWO HUNDRED MILLION next year. That's what you started with. You can't bring in a FA WR, or trade for one on the last year of their contract and give them an extension? Really? All the tackles under 30, we don't need those. Saquon Barkley? Derrick Henry? Nope, we can get the 3rd string RB from Washington who fumbles for $4 mil less a year. Not even a phone call on Cousins, or Mayfield - nope, Jacoby Brissett is 1/2 as good as they are for 1/5th the price. Do you see the pattern forming up here?

When you have no talent, you have to bring in proven talent. You can't sit back and rely on the draft, which is an actual crap shoot. If the draft is Jayden Daniels/Xavier Worthy/3rd Round OT - that's not good enough. So we go from 4 to 6 wins next year, neat - now we're drafting at like 11, and there are STILL GAPING HOLES on the offense bereft of talent, and the defense is another year older. Even if all 7 draft picks hit, that's still not going to fill the gaps. and they're not being filled by these lottery tickets they're finding in the dumpster, they're just not. We've seen this damn story too many times now. Talked ourselves into it. The difference was Brady was here, and Belichick was here.

They're not here anymore. You can't bring back 75% of the coaching staff, 100% of the scouting staff, 9 of your own FAs from a 4-13 with no pro bowlers, and a bunch of flotsam and jetsam 30+ year olds on one year contracts and call it good. It's not going to be good. It's going to be a laughing stock.

This can change, obviously, and if it does, I'll gladly applaud them for it, but I have seen this movie way too many damn times before to know how it ends.
 
headcase said:
Money is only part of it, the player, and where he wants to go is another part.

Smith is on the old side with a lengthy injury history; is near the end of his career, and may want one last shot at a ring. Are the Patriots out because of the first part, or is Smith out on the Patriots because of the second part?


And alot of people say that the money is all that matters, but over the years there are a number of FAs that came here because they wanted to be coached by BB....that changing maybe as big of a problem as the 4-13 record and the current rudderless ship.
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Exactly. If you're signing Tyron Smith, why did you let Trent Brown go? When he decides to play, he's a better player. But then again, you fucked him out of left tackle money 3 years ago, so he probably wants nothing to do with Bob Kraft ever again.
 
DarnSyd said:
Maybe I'm in the vast minority here, but I actually like what the Patriots have done in free agency so far. Take care of your own FAs, and not overpay for good but not great players. I was afraid that Kraft might over correct and pay for many good but not great 30ish players just to have a quick turnaround, but the kind of turnaround that isn't sustainable.

I think that they will/should spend to the cap this year, but without significantly tapping into or severely leveraging future cap, and save the large future cap surplus for when they know what they have at QB.

They still have plenty of cap space to add quality players, whether it be via standard free agency, trades, or at cut downs. They then have the most draft capital they've had in over 20 years to aquire talented players. This year's cap management approach should be cautious with an eye to maximizing the future.

That being said, the rationale for having a sensible and frugal approach this year is setting up for a more aggressive well timed (QB) cap approach in the future, which I'm not confident Kraft would endorse.
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I am good with this approach as well. This thing is not going to get rebuilt in one season. We have the best draft capital we have ever had since the early 90s. Hopefully we hit it out of the park with the draft and then continue to add pieces thru FA both this year and the next fw years ...
 
Mazz22 said:
I am good with this approach as well. This thing is not going to get rebuilt in one season. We have the best draft capital we have ever had since the early 90s. Hopefully we hit it out of the park with the draft and then continue to add pieces thru FA both this year and the next fw years ...
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See Mazz, the issue is, you can focus exclusively on one side of the ball for upgrades right now, this year and next year. Beyond that, you have to draft and sign for everything again. If we rely on the draft and blue light special FAs, we're going to be the Cardinals in 3 years, and stuck in a perpetual cycle for years and decades to come. When were the Cardinals good again? Oh yeah, 08, 09, dropped some big money on some key FAs, hit on Larry Fitzgerald, Warner retires, all those FAs retire, move on, and the cupboard is bare again, because they didn't keep up with the talent issues. They didn't draft well, and they signed crappy FAs for cheap. And now they're facing their 2nd decade of losing.

Like I said, if you have Brady, and you have Belichick, you can get away with it. Brady will make it work, and Belichick will coach em up. They're gone now. Bob Kraft fell into the 2 GOATs, born on third, and thought he hit a triple.
 
TommyD420 said:
See Mazz, the issue is, you can focus exclusively on one side of the ball for upgrades right now, this year and next year. Beyond that, you have to draft and sign for everything again. If we rely on the draft and blue light special FAs, we're going to be the Cardinals in 3 years, and stuck in a perpetual cycle for years and decades to come. When were the Cardinals good again? Oh yeah, 08, 09, dropped some big money on some key FAs, hit on Larry Fitzgerald, Warner retires, all those FAs retire, move on, and the cupboard is bare again, because they didn't keep up with the talent issues. They didn't draft well, and they signed crappy FAs for cheap. And now they're facing their 2nd decade of losing.

Like I said, if you have Brady, and you have Belichick, you can get away with it. Brady will make it work, and Belichick will coach em up. They're gone now. Bob Kraft fell into the 2 GOATs, born on third, and thought he hit a triple.
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Well, yeah, of course it is hard which is why we have a former GB exec helping us. That org has transitioned now three times from Favre to Rodgers to Love. We all know we need the QB to really have a chance at any sustained success and build around him. We will see if we can find THE GUY in this year's draft or wait until next year ... or maybe they have something else in mind. I was psyched they made a legit play to get Mayfield and Evans. They are serious about getting this ship righted.
 
Mazz22 said:
Well, yeah, of course it is hard which is why we have a former GB exec helping us. That org has transitioned now three times from Favre to Rodgers to Love. We all know we need the QB to really have a chance at any sustained success and build around him. We will see if we can find THE GUY in this year's draft or wait until next year ... or maybe they have something else in mind. I was psyched they made a legit play to get Mayfield and Evans. They are serious about getting this ship righted.
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Did they, though?

Or is that what they told Tom Curran, et al? Because like you, I was encouraged by that, but when you hear that story several times in a week, it starts to sound an awful lot like spin.
 
TommyD420 said:
Did they, though?

Or is that what they told Tom Curran, et al? Because like you, I was encouraged by that, but when you hear that story several times in a week, it starts to sound an awful lot like spin.
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they could be lying about anything. Perhaps down the line either Mayfield or Evans will confirm that they were contacted with an offer.
 
TommyD420 said:
Here's the thing with that part. 'Your own FAs' were on a 4-13 team last year. The team had zero pro bowlers. It's really nice you got Josh Uche, who played like 15 snaps last year, to come back on a cheap deal. Neat.

Your point about 30 year old players is correct - of course, half the FAs signed from the dumpster are 30.

Here's the major difference between this year, and years past. There is a major deficiency in talent, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Nobody disagrees with that. If this were a typical year, then sure, I'd like to see the Patriots be 'smart' with their dumpster diving - but this year you had 100 million. That's ONE HUNDRED MILLION in cap space. TWO HUNDRED MILLION next year. That's what you started with. You can't bring in a FA WR, or trade for one on the last year of their contract and give them an extension? Really? All the tackles under 30, we don't need those. Saquon Barkley? Derrick Henry? Nope, we can get the 3rd string RB from Washington who fumbles for $4 mil less a year. Not even a phone call on Cousins, or Mayfield - nope, Jacoby Brissett is 1/2 as good as they are for 1/5th the price. Do you see the pattern forming up here?

When you have no talent, you have to bring in proven talent. You can't sit back and rely on the draft, which is an actual crap shoot. If the draft is Jayden Daniels/Xavier Worthy/3rd Round OT - that's not good enough. So we go from 4 to 6 wins next year, neat - now we're drafting at like 11, and there are STILL GAPING HOLES on the offense bereft of talent, and the defense is another year older. Even if all 7 draft picks hit, that's still not going to fill the gaps. and they're not being filled by these lottery tickets they're finding in the dumpster, they're just not. We've seen this damn story too many times now. Talked ourselves into it. The difference was Brady was here, and Belichick was here.

They're not here anymore. You can't bring back 75% of the coaching staff, 100% of the scouting staff, 9 of your own FAs from a 4-13 with no pro bowlers, and a bunch of flotsam and jetsam 30+ year olds on one year contracts and call it good. It's not going to be good. It's going to be a laughing stock.

This can change, obviously, and if it does, I'll gladly applaud them for it, but I have seen this movie way too many damn times before to know how it ends.
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I think we disagree at how bad the existing roster is. A team's record is not always a fair measuring stick for how good or bad the roster is, as their record was influenced significantly by injuries (highest cap on IR last year) and QB play (worst in NFL). If the Patriots had a normal level and distribution of injuries they most likely would have won a few additional games. They also suffered from historically bad QB play, and if they had replaced Jones 36 QBR with Brissett's career average QBR of 57 they would have won another few games. They have a solid defense that should be significantly improved by the time preseason rolls around. They have some decent parts on offense, but need to add a couple of OT's, 2 WR's, RB and QB. Between the draft, FA, and trades they have enough ammunition to address and upgrade all of these positions without maxing out the cap credit cards.

While there are no guarantees in the draft the Patriots have 8 picks and will be picking towards the top of each round, which increases their probability of success. They should be able to find at least a couple of starters and a couple of contributors between the draft and UFAs.

Lastly, this is day 4 of FA. There still are many good players available via FA and trade, and the Patriots are in excellent position to pick up 3 or 4 of them without having to resorting to huge bonuses or using void years.

There's a lot of moving parts but if the Patriots could somehow find a QB, and if Mayo doesn't suck then they could actually compete for a playoff spot this year (especially with an easier schedule and weaker division). If all goes well they can be more aggressive in 2025.
 
DarnSyd said:
Maybe I'm in the vast minority here, but I actually like what the Patriots have done in free agency so far. Take care of your own FAs, and not overpay for good but not great players. I was afraid that Kraft might over correct and pay for many good but not great 30ish players just to have a quick turnaround, but the kind of turnaround that isn't sustainable.

I think that they will/should spend to the cap this year, but without significantly tapping into or severely leveraging future cap, and save the large future cap surplus for when they know what they have at QB.

They still have plenty of cap space to add quality players, whether it be via standard free agency, trades, or at cut downs. They then have the most draft capital they've had in over 20 years to aquire talented players. This year's cap management approach should be cautious with an eye to maximizing the future.

That being said, the rationale for having a sensible and frugal approach this year is setting up for a more aggressive well timed (QB) cap approach in the future, which I'm not confident Kraft would endorse.
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Krafty booted the GOAT HC essentially over his cheapness. He brought in a kiss ass nobody HC. No, he was never going to change his ways. He was setting it up to do even more of the same.

And he is.
 
Mazz22 said:
Well, yeah, of course it is hard which is why we have a former GB exec helping us. That org has transitioned now three times from Favre to Rodgers to Love. We all know we need the QB to really have a chance at any sustained success and build around him. We will see if we can find THE GUY in this year's draft or wait until next year ... or maybe they have something else in mind. I was psyched they made a legit play to get Mayfield and Evans. They are serious about getting this ship righted.
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Elliot isn’t his dad…
 
aloyouis said:
Krafty booted the GOAT HC essentially over his cheapness. He brought in a kiss ass nobody HC. No, he was never going to change his ways. He was setting it up to do even more of the same.

And he is.
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I hear you. Kraft certainly hasn't covered himself in glory recently.
 
Mazz22 said:
Well, yeah, of course it is hard which is why we have a former GB exec helping us. That org has transitioned now three times from Favre to Rodgers to Love. We all know we need the QB to really have a chance at any sustained success and build around him. We will see if we can find THE GUY in this year's draft or wait until next year ... or maybe they have something else in mind. I was psyched they made a legit play to get Mayfield and Evans. They are serious about getting this ship righted.
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We might draft a quality QB, but we wont know that he is if he doesnt have anyone to throw the ball to. Unless we are just forgetting about the next season we need to hit on QB and 2 star WRs in the draft.
 
This years FA class was one of the worst in recent memory. We did get our bridge QB. We may get either a WR or a OT before this is over.
Fortunately this is a strong draft class in all 3 positions.
 
DeflateThis said:
We might draft a quality QB, but we wont know that he is if he doesnt have anyone to throw the ball to. Unless we are just forgetting about the next season we need to hit on QB and 2 star WRs in the draft.
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I think we draft a WR or two ...
 
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