Making a Murderer

I agree with just about all of this.

They didn't prove shit and the jury was probably a lot like the local cops-- apparently they decided that Avery was just no-good white trash and deserved to do life regardless of how full-of-holes the evidence was. The fix was in.

Kratz poisoned the jury pool. Initial vote sided with Avery, but there were 3-4 very stubborn jurors who decided he was guilty from the very start and were 'forceful' with the other jurors. They got their way.

Neither should have been convicted which is a different argument from what actually happened to Theresa Halbach, which I thought was given less attention than it deserved in the overall production.

I'm not sure the doc team was in a position to put forth any theories given that the police didn't investigate any other potential suspects. Literally none. Other Avery family members who had the same opportunity were never questioned as suspects. Her weird ex-boyfriend wasn't asked for an alibi. The police tunnel-visioned on Steven so there's likely almost no evidence collected on any other suspects because they completely ignored them. Because of that, I don't know if enough evidence even exists to support an alternative theory/suspect at this time. The investigation would need to be reopened IMO, which won't happen.

Because of the despicable actions of Kratz and the county sheriff deputies, I'm not sure we'll ever know what actually happened to her.

Edit: It must be an awful thing to go through for her family, but it's kind of ****ed up to me that they (especially her brother) didn't have issues with what went down. That smiling clown just gobbled up whatever Kratz offered.
 
damn...thought this thread was going to be about Ray Lewis...:sulk:
 
Kratz poisoned the jury pool. Initial vote sided with Avery, but there were 3-4 very stubborn jurors who decided he was guilty from the very start and were 'forceful' with the other jurors. They got their way.



I'm not sure the doc team was in a position to put forth any theories given that the police didn't investigate any other potential suspects. Literally none. Other Avery family members who had the same opportunity were never questioned as suspects. Her weird ex-boyfriend wasn't asked for an alibi. The police tunnel-visioned on Teresa so there's likely almost no evidence collected on any other suspects because they completely ignored them. Because of that, I don't know if enough evidence even exists to support an alternative theory/suspect at this time. The investigation would need to be reopened IMO, which won't happen.

Because of the despicable actions of Kratz and the county sheriff deputies, I'm not sure we'll ever know what actually happened to her.

Edit: It must be an awful thing to go through for her family, but it's kind of ****ed up to me that they (especially her brother) didn't have issues with what went down. That smiling clown just gobbled up whatever Kratz offered.

I'm not even sure who I thought was the worst character in this thing, but it's a long list. One thing I liked about the film is that they would drop a bombshell on you with zero warning and there were a bunch of those. When Kratz sexted the abuse victim I just about fell off my recliner. What a deluded scumbag. It was both sick and hilarious, but they should have gotten her reaction to the "seduction".

"I live in a $350,000 dollar house". Oh, yeah. That's a panty-dropper.
 
5lb6ppo.jpg


Too soon? I laughed


ROFL


I'm not done watching it, I think I'm in like the 6th episode, but the whole way I saw Avery's lawyers poking huge gaping holes to the defense's allegations, and I keep thinking to myself how in the world is he found guilty without a reasonable doubt? The whole case itself is a cluster**** of reasonable doubt. It's crazy.

From what I'm reading the Brendan Dassey court will be even worse.
 
ROFL


I'm not done watching it, I think I'm in like the 6th episode, but the whole way I saw Avery's lawyers poking huge gaping holes to the defense's allegations, and I keep thinking to myself how in the world is he found guilty without a reasonable doubt? The whole case itself is a cluster**** of reasonable doubt. It's crazy.

From what I'm reading the Brendan Dassey court will be even worse.

At least with Avery you could figure he could've snapped and killed Halbach. It's not that big of a stretch to think "well, there are her charred bones 20 feet from his bedroom" and connect the dots, but with the kid......????

He's just not all there. How you can take his (clearly, plainly, obviously) coerced confession and draw any conclusions from it? How could anybody think "oh, yeah.....sounds legit to me."

I guess you have to be from Manitowoc County to understand what he meant.

His Mom Barb was one of the shining stars of the show, though. In the movie version they should get Tonya Harding to play her part. I tried to decide whether it would be worse to be sharing a trailer with Barb or with Steven's drunken girlfriend and decided it would be a tie. A horrible, nightmarish tie.
 
The more I watch the more in my opinion . How could they have convicted him of 1st degree murder.
 
At least with Avery you could figure he could've snapped and killed Halbach. It's not that big of a stretch to think "well, there are her charred bones 20 feet from his bedroom" and connect the dots, but with the kid......????

He's just not all there. How you can take his (clearly, plainly, obviously) coerced confession and draw any conclusions from it? How could anybody think "oh, yeah.....sounds legit to me."

I guess you have to be from Manitowoc County to understand what he meant.

His Mom Barb was one of the shining stars of the show, though. In the movie version they should get Tonya Harding to play her part. I tried to decide whether it would be worse to be sharing a trailer with Barb or with Steven's drunken girlfriend and decided it would be a tie. A horrible, nightmarish tie.

LOL to me at the beginning of Brendan's trial the prosecution boasts that Brendan is only in a couple special classes in the HS so he's just your average HS student. Says a lot about the rest of the HS population.:coffee:

Mom they're saying my statements are inconsistent, what does that mean mom answers I don't know:shrug_n:

~Dee~
 
There are plenty of bad people in this show, but to me the one I got the worst vibe from is Barb Janda's new husband Scott Tadych. As soon as I saw him onscreen I got the willies, and between the bullshit detector blaring at his testimony, the heartless reaction to Avery's conviction, and his meltdown after Brendan's trial, he came off as a complete and utter douchenozzle.
 
There are plenty of bad people in this show, but to me the one I got the worst vibe from is Barb Janda's new husband Scott Tadych. As soon as I saw him onscreen I got the willies, and between the bullshit detector blaring at his testimony, the heartless reaction to Avery's conviction, and his meltdown after Brendan's trial, he came off as a complete and utter douchenozzle.

Bear in mind that Barb went off on what a scumbag Steven was early on, how she hopes he rots in jail and then gradually she kinda......cools off on the rhetoric. Like she was buying the "cops are in on it" theory. Very convenient that she had both a prime suspect and a fall guy (the cops) and nobody was looking too hard for another puzzle piece.

Maybe Scotty decided to impress his lovely bride with the manly way in which he handles situations that give her agita. If your looking for motive and means then he's a guy that is right on property and........

I kinda had the same feeling about him.
 
SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!








Bumping. Husband and I just finished binge watching this over two nights. I don't think I have ever been so pissed off in my life at a situation that does not directly involve me or my family. I just don't get it, is there something in the fvcking water up there?!?!? There was enough holes in that case to sink a god damn ship. Oh look we found this key randomly laying here after what like 3 searches and conveniently the only DNA on a key used frequently by the victim was Avery's?!? Yeah not buying it. And the Blood sample that was clearly tampered with?!?

I was in tears by the end. That poor boy, life over because of the most disgusting interrogation tactics I have ever witnessed in my life. Literally saying "Wrong answer" until he said what they wanted. And that dick bag telling him exactly what to draw.

Unreal...

Next up the should do Making a Cheater. The NFL is just as corrupt.
 
His ex fiancé called him a monster. Who dumped him because of a non contact order.
 
I'm seeing stuff out there now, claiming the filmmakers are leaving a lot of things out. So-called "documentaries" seem to be anything but, nowadays.

I'm reading all the original transcripts now. I still cannot imagine that the defense did not punch enough holes in this for an acquittal though.
 
I'm seeing stuff out there now, claiming the filmmakers are leaving a lot of things out. So-called "documentaries" seem to be anything but, nowadays.

First, much of what was supposedly left out was put out into the media by Kratz. Ya, totally trustworthy guy.

Second, most of what's been released as 'left out' doesn't really change what happened. Some of it does make Avery looked slightly worse, but it doesn't change the miscarriage is justice in his conviction (ie. no possible way he was guilty beyond reasonable doubt) and absolutely nothing changes Brandon's conviction. Nothing left out is actual evidence that either of them killed her.

Third, I've seen some reports that the doc filmmakers also held back some stuff that actually benefits Avery/Brendan even more to avoid appearing too biased - they apparently assumed when people started digging they'd find these other elements and be even more shocked.

This whole thing is such a circus.
 
Evidence 'Making a Murderer' Didn't Present in Steven Avery's Murder Case

http://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movie...-evidence-making-a-murderer-didnt-present.php

-- The documentary said that part of Avery's criminal past included animal cruelty. To my recollection, it didn't specify exactly what that animal cruelty was. I know that for some of our readers, knowing is enough to want to see Avery get the death sentence regardless of whether he murdered Halbach: He doused a cat in oil and threw it on a bonfire (this is not relevant to the murder trial, but it certainly diminishes the sympathy some of us felt for him).

-- Past criminal activity also included threatening a female relative at gunpoint.

-- In the months leading up to Halbach's disappearance, Avery had called Auto Trader several times and always specifically requested Halbach to come out and take the photos.

-- Halbach had complained to her boss that she didn't want to go out to Avery's trailer anymore, because once when she came out, Avery was waiting for her wearing only a towel (this was excluded for being too inflammatory). Avery clearly had an obsession with Halbach.

-- On the day that Halbach went missing, Avery had called her three times, twice from a *67 number to hide his identity.

-- The bullet with Halbach's DNA on it came from Avery's gun, which always hung above his bed.
 
Evidence 'Making a Murderer' Didn't Present in Steven Avery's Murder Case

http://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movie...-evidence-making-a-murderer-didnt-present.php

-- The documentary said that part of Avery's criminal past included animal cruelty. To my recollection, it didn't specify exactly what that animal cruelty was. I know that for some of our readers, knowing is enough to want to see Avery get the death sentence regardless of whether he murdered Halbach: He doused a cat in oil and threw it on a bonfire (this is not relevant to the murder trial, but it certainly diminishes the sympathy some of us felt for him).

-- Past criminal activity also included threatening a female relative at gunpoint.

-- In the months leading up to Halbach's disappearance, Avery had called Auto Trader several times and always specifically requested Halbach to come out and take the photos.

-- Halbach had complained to her boss that she didn't want to go out to Avery's trailer anymore, because once when she came out, Avery was waiting for her wearing only a towel (this was excluded for being too inflammatory). Avery clearly had an obsession with Halbach.

-- On the day that Halbach went missing, Avery had called her three times, twice from a *67 number to hide his identity.

-- The bullet with Halbach's DNA on it came from Avery's gun, which always hung above his bed.

All that was in the documentary :shrug_n: Now some of it wasn't used in the trial but it was included in the documentary.


~Dee~
 
My responses in bold.

Evidence 'Making a Murderer' Didn't Present in Steven Avery's Murder Case

http://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movie...-evidence-making-a-murderer-didnt-present.php

-- The documentary said that part of Avery's criminal past included animal cruelty. To my recollection, it didn't specify exactly what that animal cruelty was. I know that for some of our readers, knowing is enough to want to see Avery get the death sentence regardless of whether he murdered Halbach: He doused a cat in oil and threw it on a bonfire (this is not relevant to the murder trial, but it certainly diminishes the sympathy some of us felt for him).

This doesn't change a thing for me. I never thought he was a saint. But he also wasn't fairly convicted of murder either. Also, there are no documented records of this. Take a look, literally every article is quoting one single journalist who made the claim without actual supporting evidence.


-- Past criminal activity also included threatening a female relative at gunpoint.

Re: past criminal activity (aside from female relative), examples? This was in the documentary but not presented at trial. Likely due to insufficient evidence to back up claims. And it still doesn't change the facts of this case.

-- In the months leading up to Halbach's disappearance, Avery had called Auto Trader several times and always specifically requested Halbach to come out and take the photos.

He'd used her services a number of times before when selling vehicles. If you've worked with someone you liked in the past, isn't it common to request them for future work if they are available?

-- Halbach had complained to her boss that she didn't want to go out to Avery's trailer anymore, because once when she came out, Avery was waiting for her wearing only a towel (this was excluded for being too inflammatory). Avery clearly had an obsession with Halbach.

This is more of Kratz being a ****ing scumbag. This never happened. It was excluded from the doc AND trail because the judge threw it out as unreliable. Yes, the judge that had it in for Avery didn't allow it in because there wasn't anything to support the assertion. As below:

There was no testimony from any co-worker to support the specific allegation that TH said that she wouldn't work with Avery again and that she was "creeped out" by him. Further, what the judge excluded was testimony from Dawn Plizska, TH's co-worker, that TH said Avery came to the door in a towel and that she and TH laughed about it and TH said, "ew." According to a newspaper article, the judge excluded it because the date could not be verified and "there were few details about the alleged encounter."

http://chippewa.com/news/victim-s-c...cle_fb32d5b4-4569-53de-bb0c-c6e2beccd56e.html

-- On the day that Halbach went missing, Avery had called her three times, twice from a *67 number to hide his identity.

She was late arriving to their appointment, so why wouldn't he call her? This was also the 1990s when *67 was common for any number of reasons. Again, it proves absolutely nothing. If she was terrified of him, why would she go to a job at the salvage yard? If he called her and (presumably) spoke to her, why wouldn't she turn around and go home? Again, this proves nothing.


-- The bullet with Halbach's DNA on it came from Avery's gun, which always hung above his bed.

More bullshit from Kratz. The state forensic report matched the bullet to that TYPE of gun, not to his gun specifically. This isn't CSI, matching a bullet to a specific gun is very difficult to do. Oh and guess who also owned the exact same model of gun? Bobby Dassey.

You forgot the biggest one Kratz has clung to - that Avery's 'sweat DNA' was supposedly found on the RAV4's hood latch. First, sweat DNA isn't a thing. Second, see below from Buting:

Buting also explained why he felt the DNA found was unimportant. "It wasn't sweat DNA," he says. "There's no such thing as 'sweat DNA.' Their own expert, from the crime lab, testified that they never did a presumptive test on that hood latch to see if there was blood there. And she said, 'I can't foreclose the possibility that it was blood from which the DNA came.' It was a discolored swab."

Moroever, he said that the amount of DNA found on the hood latch was so small that it might have been inadvertently transferred by an investigator working in the car. One of the forensics specialists working on blood-splatter analysis, he said, had said he'd opened the hood of the vehicle to get the odometer reading but did not take off his gloves. "Whatever DNA was found in there might have been innocently transferred by the analyst himself," Buting says.

This evidence was presented at trial but not at all emphasized by the defense. It's only becoming a bigger deal now because Kratz has been crying to the media trying to defend his reputation. None of the so-called evidence excluded from the doc actually prove Avery's guilt. And, most certainly, none of it makes Brendan's confession any more likely.
 
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