Patriots reply to wells report

Thanks. That clears things up a bit for me.

I assumed Lisa was referring to an actual defamation or other potential lawsuit being filed and I also assumed that we need the process to play out before going there. A great legal mind I am not.

So.......obviously, we want Goodell on the sidelines for this thing, but if the NFL bylaws give him the right to do so then what is the actual legal argument that we could make to convince a judge that should be the case?

If that is out there and I missed it then I apologize. There is a ton of information flying around and it's difficult to stay on top of all of it. To say the least.

His impartiality is called into question. As arbitrator he needs to be impartial and if this isn't possible (quite likely this is the case given his office's role in this putrid mess.) then someone with no dog in the fight has to be appointed.

If that's refused it's my opinion that they are fueling the bias fire.
 
Could Rog nullify the suspension ,give the draft picks back and then fire Vincent citing that he let Troy run and it got out of control?

He could, and it would be one reasonable response to Goodell appointing himself as the arbitrator for the appeal, to be honest.

I don't think Goodell is reasonable at this point. I think he's completely off the reservation.
 
He could, and it would be one reasonable response to Goodell appointing himself as the arbitrator for the appeal, to be honest.

I don't think Goodell is reasonable at this point. I think he's completely off the reservation.

Same. Think it's wishful thinking that the commissioner's office is going to cave at this stage.
Both sides seems very entrenched.
 
Wowzer! First time I've read that entire letter. If it's accurate and Vincent has no authority to suspend Brady for 4 games, this is a slam dunk. Then if Goodell says the punishment came from him then Goodell is no longer a neutral arbitrator. This is looking pretty good from my perspective.

Yet another case of Team Brady backing the commissioner into a corner.

He's got some damned fine lawyers working for him. :coffee:
 
What Im' really afraid of is the old (and assumed destroyed) Spygate tapes suddenly show up.

Here's the thing people (and I think you) forget.

We SAW the tapes before they were destroyed. It showed, "Scoreboard" (time, down and distance), "Signals" (from sideline), and "Defense".

That was it. You could have gotten the same information with a pen and paper and it would have been equally effective, and not illegal.

Also, another point, is that Brady was ON THE FIELD when this happened. How could "Spygate" have anything to do with him?
 
From Reiss

How could someone from the NFL not take possession of the Patriots' footballs the night of the AFC title game? The Patriots ultimately sent the footballs to Wells themselves. Think about that for a moment: The Patriots were fined $1 million, lost a 2016 first-round draft pick, a 2017 fourth-round draft pick and quarterback Tom Brady was suspended for the first four games of the 2016 regular season ... and the NFL didn't even take the primary evidence with them on the night they began the investigation.

Wells report investigators said part of why they didn't believe Tom Brady was that he said he didn't know McNally, which they said was contradicted in testimony from others. But that might have been because Brady only knew McNally by his nickname -- "Bird." Brady actually referred to him as "Burt" when asked by investigators about his nickname, which the Patriots said reflected how little he knew about McNally. That was interesting to me because it ties to how believable Brady was in his testimony.

The league didn't give the Patriots the PSI measurements of the footballs at halftime until March 23, which was 64 days after the game. It did so under the condition that the results not be released to the media until the Wells report was issued. It is puzzling why the NFL took this course of action, essentially putting handcuffs on the Patriots from defending themselves from media leaks that were incorrect yet shaped public perception.
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-england...4/follow-up-thoughts-on-the-patriots-rebuttal

The Pats handed over the incriminating footballs?

Bird or Burt...we've read this before but Mike thinks Wells completely misinterpreted Brady's testimony as a lie when Brady actually didn't know Burt as McNally.

The NFL allowed and did nothing to stop the firestorm but, worse, prevented the Patriots from defending themselves. We've heard this before but Mike has been told this will help the Pats/Brady in court with a defamation suit. IDK.
 
Yet another case of Team Brady backing the commissioner into a corner.

He's got some damned fine lawyers working for him. :coffee:

Come on Tommy, I don't even think you need a lawyer for this one. The initial punishment is too easy to overturn, that he did it on purpose in order to position himself as the arbitrator.

Don't believe for a second this wasn't intentionally done by Goodell. The man is not so big an idiot he didn't know the initial punishment would be invalid because Troy doesn't have that authority.

When I heard that part about Vincent not having the authority, it's becoming clear Goodell served it up this way for Tom and his team because he wanted it to go down like this. So I don't see this as some smart move on our part, or the part of Tom's lawyers when all we had to do is read the CBA agreement.

If we are to believe everything that's been said by both camps, then I am more concerned of the fact that it seems Goodell has all this planned out and Kraft was surprised with the punishment, and playing catch up, having to backtrack on his original statement of going along with the punishment.

So far it seems more to me like everything has gone down the way Goodell planned it and we're just following the crumbs he laid out in front of us.

All I know is up to this point I haven't even seen any definitive proof of intentionally deflated any footballs by anyone anywhere, let alone someone in our organization, and definitely not that Brady had something to do with it.

This whole thing ****ing stinks. And if Tom and Kraft really do have good lawyers, then I want to see the entire freaking thing overturned, along with that apology, because they have failed to even provide evidence anyone in our organization actually broke any rule. Seriously now.

Anything short of that, and it's a win for Goodell and the NFL in my eyes.
 
Come on Tommy, I don't even think you need a lawyer for this one. The initial punishment is too easy to overturn, that he did it on purpose in order to position himself as the arbitrator.

Don't believe for a second this wasn't intentionally done by Goodell. The man is not so big an idiot he didn't know the initial punishment would be invalid because Troy doesn't have that authority.

When I heard that part about Vincent not having the authority, it's becoming clear Goodell served it up this way for Tom and his team because he wanted it to go down like this. So I don't see this as some smart move on our part, or the part of Tom's lawyers when all we had to do is read the CBA agreement.

If we are to believe everything that's been said by both camps, then I am more concerned of the fact that it seems Goodell has all this planned out and Kraft was surprised with the punishment, and playing catch up, having to backtrack on his original statement of going along with the punishment.

So far it seems more to me like everything has gone down the way Goodell planned it and we're just following the crumbs he laid out in front of us.

All I know is up to this point I haven't even seen any definitive proof of intentionally deflated any footballs by anyone anywhere, let alone someone in our organization, and definitely not that Brady had something to do with it.

This whole thing ****ing stinks. And if Tom and Kraft really do have good lawyers, then I want to see the entire freaking thing overturned, along with that apology, because they have failed to even provide evidence anyone in our organization actually broke any rule. Seriously now.

Anything short of that, and it's a win for Goodell and the NFL in my eyes.

Goodell is drunk with power. He truly believes Brady won't go to court to fight him. He STILL doesn't.

Everything Goodell has done since he hired Wells was orchestrated.

The Patriots lawyers and Brady's lawyers have done a masterful job of backing Goodell into several corners, and I truly don't think Goodell even realizes it. Or if he does, he simply doesn't care, because he's waiting for the Patriots to bend over and take it, just like they did with Spygate.

Do they need to do that? No. But they did. It just makes the lines more clear.
 
Come on Tommy, I don't even think you need a lawyer for this one. The initial punishment is too easy to overturn, that he did it on purpose in order to position himself as the arbitrator.

Don't believe for a second this wasn't intentionally done by Goodell. The man is not so big an idiot he didn't know the initial punishment would be invalid because Troy doesn't have that authority.

When I heard that part about Vincent not having the authority, it's becoming clear Goodell served it up this way for Tom and his team because he wanted it to go down like this.
So I don't see this as some smart move on our part, or the part of Tom's lawyers when all we had to do is read the CBA agreement.

If we are to believe everything that's been said by both camps, then I am more concerned of the fact that it seems Goodell has all this planned out and Kraft was surprised with the punishment, and playing catch up, having to backtrack on his original statement of going along with the punishment.

So far it seems more to me like everything has gone down the way Goodell planned it and we're just following the crumbs he laid out in front of us.

All I know is up to this point I haven't even seen any definitive proof of intentionally deflated any footballs by anyone anywhere, let alone someone in our organization, and definitely not that Brady had something to do with it.

This whole thing ****ing stinks. And if Tom and Kraft really do have good lawyers, then I want to see the entire freaking thing overturned, along with that apology, because they have failed to even provide evidence anyone in our organization actually broke any rule. Seriously now.

Anything short of that, and it's a win for Goodell and the NFL in my eyes.



If this is true, then Goodell intentionally set out to irreparably damage the reputations of Brady, Kraft, and the NE Patriots, which is beyond reprehensible.

If the commissioner of the NFL is that corrupt, I hope Kraft exposes the dirt.
 
Come on Tommy, I don't even think you need a lawyer for this one. The initial punishment is too easy to overturn, that he did it on purpose in order to position himself as the arbitrator.

Don't believe for a second this wasn't intentionally done by Goodell. The man is not so big an idiot he didn't know the initial punishment would be invalid because Troy doesn't have that authority.

When I heard that part about Vincent not having the authority, it's becoming clear Goodell served it up this way for Tom and his team because he wanted it to go down like this. So I don't see this as some smart move on our part, or the part of Tom's lawyers when all we had to do is read the CBA agreement.

If we are to believe everything that's been said by both camps, then I am more concerned of the fact that it seems Goodell has all this planned out and Kraft was surprised with the punishment, and playing catch up, having to backtrack on his original statement of going along with the punishment.

So far it seems more to me like everything has gone down the way Goodell planned it and we're just following the crumbs he laid out in front of us.

All I know is up to this point I haven't even seen any definitive proof of intentionally deflated any footballs by anyone anywhere, let alone someone in our organization, and definitely not that Brady had something to do with it.

This whole thing ****ing stinks. And if Tom and Kraft really do have good lawyers, then I want to see the entire freaking thing overturned, along with that apology, because they have failed to even provide evidence anyone in our organization actually broke any rule. Seriously now.

Anything short of that, and it's a win for Goodell and the NFL in my eyes.

Well, this would be a big turnaround for Goodell then. Because he has (very recently) ****ed up (very badly) a number of other disciplinary scenarios.

Personally, I don't see why anyone would conclude that he suddenly got his Kung Fu Chess Master Manipulator DNA unwrapping. I think he continues to be the same obtuse oaf he has been.
 
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AhXP21DcB2A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

NSFW
 
Oh doesn't this make Charlie "the pats punishment wasn't harsh enough" casserly look even more stupid? ROFL
"That's my draft choice, sniff...sniff...that's my quarterback"
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/16/david-carr-spoke-of-deflating-footballs-in-2006

David Carr spoke of deflating footballs in 2006
Posted by Mike Florio on May 16, 2015, 11:15 PM EDT
Carr
Getty Images
As the search for evidence of other allegations of cheating against the Patriots continues, the search for evidence of other allegations of cheating by other teams continues. As does the search for evidence of other admissions of cheating.

Consider this 2006 article from Judy Battista, then of the New York Times and currently of NFL Media. It focuses on quarterback preferences regarding their footballs, and it includes the following paragraph regarding the preferences of former Texans quarterback David Carr.

“Carr, like several other quarterbacks, said Denver was one of the toughest places to play,” Battista wrote. “He said he thought the ball expanded slightly at the altitude and felt slick because of the lower humidity. Before Houston’s preseason game at Denver, Carr instructed the ball boys to let a little air out of the Texans’ footballs.” (Emphasis added.)

When that statement was published in November 2006, no one said a word about the possibility that the Texans or anyone else was cheating. And if it sparked any type of consternation for the league office, those issues remained internal — resolved without any sort of brouhaha, investigation, or discipline.

Of course, the article isn’t entirely favorable to the ongoing cause of Patriots fans to prove that other teams did that which the Patriots insist they didn’t do. The article explained that former Texans quarterback Tony Banks once told Carr that Patriots quarterback Tom Brady “liked the balls so broken in that it looked as if he had been using them since junior high school.”

“I relate it to an old baseball glove,” Brady told Battista. “If you have a glove, when you get it right from the store, the leather is very stiff and very difficult to break in. The preservative on the football, when you get it off, it’s easier to get a grip. It’s having a ball that doesn’t slip out of your hands.”

Wanting the leather to be broken in is much different from deliberately deflating the footballs. Regardless, nothing in the article got anyone in trouble, perhaps because before January 18, 2015 it was a given that quarterbacks like their footballs to feel a certain way — and it also was a given that the league had no reason to keep them from being able to comfortably throw the ball.

That’s an important factor for the NFL to consider as it changes the ball-handling procedures. If the process becomes so strict that quarterbacks can’t comfortably throw the ball, does that really benefit a league that has discovered its highest levels of popularity with souped-up passing games and the kind of scoring that fuels fantasy football?
Posted via Mobile Device
 
A Fifty cent personalized zip tie that only Head ref carries would also solve the problem. Or I don't know maybe if the refs just followed the rules and kept the balls under their supervision at all times……….I know silly ideas.

~Dee~
 
A Fifty cent personalized zip tie that only Head ref carries would also solve the problem. Or I don't know maybe if the refs just followed the rules and kept the balls under their supervision at all times……….I know silly ideas.

~Dee~

They will also have to fill the footballs on the field.
 
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