Reviewing the Patriots-Cardinals Chandler Jones trade at the season?s quarter mark

Share this page

Mazz22

Mazz22

A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies.
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
18,452
Reaction score
3,597
Points
113
Location
MA
Reviewing the Patriots-Cardinals Chandler Jones trade at the season’s quarter mark

Good read here from Pats Pulpit on how things are working on for both teams after 4 games. I agree with the author that I would take Thuney in a heart beat over Chandler. And I also think Mitchell could be a legit WR so worth the trade even though our pass rush has suffered this season.



This offseason, the New England Patriots sent away edge defender Chandler Jones to the Arizona Cardinals in exchange for offensive guard Jonathan Cooper and a 2016 2nd round pick.

Jones was entering the final season of his contract and the Patriots knew they wouldn’t be able to retain his services moving forward since so many other players on the roster needed contract extensions and the price tag for pass rushers were so great.

http://www.patspulpit.com/2016/10/5...on-quarter-joe-thuney-cooper-malcolm-mitchell

Cooper was a bust for the Cardinals and Arizona traded for Jones with a contract extension already envisioned; they didn’t have the same hesitation about Jones’ role in their future.

We’re now a quarter of our way through the 2016 season. How is this trade looking so far?

Jones "has been the team’s best pass-rusher this season and is grading better than he ever did in New England," per Pro Football Focus (PFF). He ranks as the NFL’s 8th best pass rusher per PFF’s ratings, and he has racked up 4 sacks, 5 tackles for loss, 7 quarterback hits, a forced fumble, and two fumble recoveries.

The Patriots pass rush has been inconsistent this year, although it is likely linked to circumstance (the Patriots weren’t all-out rushing Ryan Tannehill and Tyrod Taylor). Jabaal Sheard is slowly warming up after returning from his knee injury, while Chris Long has been trending in the other direction and seeing a reduced impact in each subsequent week. Trey Flowers has looked promising at times and Rob Ninkovich should join the rotation to reduce the snap load of Long to keep him fresher and more energetic.

Have the Patriots missed Jones’ presence? It’s undeniable that Jones has been more productive than any of the Patriots edge defenders. He has as many sacks and quarterback hits as Sheard and Long combined and he’s been solid against the run.

But Jones has always started hot, with 30.5 of his 40 career sacks coming in the first half of the season. His impact will be more important to monitor down the back-half of the season.

For the Patriots side of the trade, Cooper has done absolutely nothing for the Patriots as he’s recovered from a foot injury. It’s unlikely he has a starting job when he’s healthy as second year RG Shaq Mason is settling to the line-up.

The other starting guard has come from the 2nd round pick the Patriots acquired. The Patriots traded down from the Cardinals 2nd round pick and acquired a 3rd and a 4th, which were turned into LG Joe Thuney and WR Malcolm Mitchell.

Thuney is coming off the best game in his young career, per PFF, and he’s looking like a franchise left guard. Mitchell has also been clutch at wide receiver and should continue to add value as an outside target.

For me, the real question is whether the final season of Chandler Jones’ contract is worth the value from four years of Thuney and Mitchell, and one year of Cooper. The Patriots effectively traded one year of a franchise pass rusher for what appears to be the start of a career for a franchise left guard.

In retrospect, I’d make that trade all over again in a heartbeat, even after seeing Jones’ success with the Cardinals. The Patriots have a nice depth chart of pass rushers, but they’ve struggled to find an adequate starting guard- never mind a really good starting guard- since Logan Mankins. This trade fixed that weakness.

What do you think?
 
I mean I'm not going to sit here and act like Jones wasn't a good player just because the Pats traded him. I think they waited until the risk reward was in their favor and made a wise move. He was still cheap (minimal cap issues to try to trade), not going to be resigned, and they got a starter for him who is ALSO still cheap and will be for 4 years if the Pats don't give him a raise. I don't think most of us ever considered that we had to see something out of Cooper to make the trade worth it. To me anything from Cooper as far as contribution is a bonus. And maybe Chandler will turn up under another type of HC. One who calls out his players publicly when they suck. :coffee:
 
Pats won hands down. Jones was going to cost too much and Thuney and Mitchell will both be equivalent players from what I've seen. I'd do that trade all day long.
 
I kind of feel bad for Jones. He was happy and thankful that Bill traded him to a "good" team and it seems the Cards are on the downside. Palmer looks done at age 36 and Larry Fitzgerald is 33 with rumors of retirement after this season. Plus, Arians seems to be losing it for whatever reason. He has become unglued.
 
The only problem with the trade was getting saddled with Cooper. Would have been better just to get the two draft picks Thuney and Mitchell. We have to pay Cooper and he takes up a roster spot we could have used for one of the two corners we cut.

I'd rather have Thuney and Mitchell and $15 mil of cap room than Jones. He was a good DE but so is Chris Long for a lot less money.

Besides, while the De stats look good, I don't see a place in them for, "Lost contain and allowed a big play on third down."
 
chevss454 said:
Pats won hands down. Jones was going to cost too much and Thuney and Mitchell will both be equivalent players from what I've seen. I'd do that trade all day long.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure about that (as double digit sack guys don't grow on trees), but from a strictly salary cap perspective, it makes sense.
 
Jones is a very good player but hes not worth the 90-100 million he'll be receiving next year. That Vernon deal is outrageous. And Jones is a better player so he'll receive at least that much probably more.

No one was giving more than what we got. And we turned that into what looks like 2 really good player. Thuney has been great and looks like a franchise LG for the next 8 years. I love Mitchell. Perfect Patriot. Kid is legit and will be a player in this league.

Our pass rush has suffered, yes. But let's be objective and look at the context here. Ninkovich out. Sheard hurt. Those are two key players. Also as the article mentions we weren't "trying" to sack Taylor.
 
Kind of a cherry picked article.

Would you trade a starting caliber player for draft picks?
What if that pick at #78 was Tavon Wilson instead of Thuney?

I think the trade was more about money than anything. Especially with other big contracts looming.

Also shows that there is the related gamble. Was this thought of as average draft., good draft?? we know they have had misses on draft day.

Is Cooper a throw in or are they trying to upgrade Mason? Supposedly Cooper is to be available soon (believe that when I see it).
 
spacecrime said:
The only problem with the trade was getting saddled with Cooper. Would have been better just to get the two draft picks Thuney and Mitchell. We have to pay Cooper and he takes up a roster spot we could have used for one of the two corners we cut.

I'd rather have Thuney and Mitchell and $15 mil of cap room than Jones. He was a good DE but so is Chris Long for a lot less money.

Besides, while the De stats look good, I don't see a place in them for, "Lost contain and allowed a big play on third down."
Click to expand...

Me, too.
People continue to forget that Jones piled up the sacks early in the season against a couple of bad teams in a few games and then faded badly when he was needed most.

Originally Posted by chevss454
Pats won hands down. Jones was going to cost too much and Thuney and Mitchell will both be equivalent players from what I've seen. I'd do that trade all day long.
Click to expand...
dchester said:
I'm not so sure about that (as double digit sack guys don't grow on trees), but from a strictly salary cap perspective, it makes sense.
Click to expand...

I'm confident in both players. Thuney has that mean edge we lost with Mankins' departure. Mitchell is still raw in some respects but he's already picked up the nuances required by the position. The rest is easy to learn and from all accounts he's dedicated to learning it all quickly.

sg14 said:
Kind of a cherry picked article.

Would you trade a starting caliber player for draft picks?
What if that pick at #78 was Tavon Wilson instead of Thuney?

I think the trade was more about money than anything. Especially with other big contracts looming.

Also shows that there is the related gamble. Was this thought of as average draft., good draft?? we know they have had misses on draft day.

Is Cooper a throw in or are they trying to upgrade Mason? Supposedly Cooper is to be available soon (believe that when I see it).
Click to expand...

$$ was everything to BB. Getting something for Jones was paramount since BB had no intention of paying him what the market would. BB knew Jones' performance wasn't up that of a true elite DE.
Cooper was once great, got injured and suffered poor coaching. I think Scar and BB felt that health and good coaching would bring him back to greatness. I don't think Cooper was a throw-in at all.
He may see the field on Sunday since he was taken off the injury list (and replaced by Edelman!! AARRGGHH)
 
sg14 said:
Kind of a cherry picked article.

Would you trade a starting caliber player for draft picks?
What if that pick at #78 was Tavon Wilson instead of Thuney?

I think the trade was more about money than anything. Especially with other big contracts looming.

Also shows that there is the related gamble. Was this thought of as average draft., good draft?? we know they have had misses on draft day.

Is Cooper a throw in or are they trying to upgrade Mason? Supposedly Cooper is to be available soon (believe that when I see it).
Click to expand...

The draft was its strongest this year in terms of depth in rounds 2-4 which is where the Pats had the majority of their picks. Sure they do miss on draft picks but no team trades players for players anymore. Just doesn't happen. That being said they appear to have hit on Thuney and Mitchell so a great deal for the Pats. Also a good deal for the Cards too if Chandler keeps playing the way he has been.
 
TommyD420 said:
Ninkovich, Tully Banta-Cain...
Click to expand...

While Ninkovich is a very good player, I don't remember him ever having a 10 sack season. When was it?

Yes, Tully Banta-Cain did it once (as a fluke), but never came close again.

Jones is on his way to his third 10 sack season (assuming he stays healthy).
 
Based solely on performance criteria up to this stage, I'd give the Cards a slight win. But, in the long run, I like the Pats fortune.
 
If Cooper had been healthy and was a very good starter at RG, this trade would look much better.
 
Pneumonic said:
Based solely on performance criteria up to this stage, I'd give the Cards a slight win. But, in the long run, I like the Pats fortune.
Click to expand...

Thuney has graded out as our best OL in the early going so I think it's close.

Plus,
"...what's best for the team."

I like the Pats fortune as well.
 
chevss454 said:
I'm confident in both players. Thuney has that mean edge we lost with Mankins' departure. Mitchell is still raw in some respects but he's already picked up the nuances required by the position. The rest is easy to learn and from all accounts he's dedicated to learning it all quickly.
Click to expand...

The market will eventually determine their worth. My guess is the Jones will be making more than both of them combined, which is why I said, strictly from a cap perspective, it does make some sense.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top