So....Where do YOU stand on the standoff between the NFL and the NFLPA?

[Beaglebay]

I want to see the players form a league and the owners hire players and see what league does better

I'd bet the potential for both to succeed is pretty good. Owners would take a financial beating, though, as their franchises would lose value. But the players could truly be in partnership with and invest in the new league, appoint a league committee instead of a commissioner, and attract new corporate sponsors. Using the Green Bay model for team ownership might be a good idea for the player's league...

One sticky point would be how to share the draft. A benefit would be sharing stadiums for teams of common locales.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

what PF09 said,

I never saw the accounting, I mean I knew my Name was on the hook for so many hours of billable time that Equals 'X' but I didn't know about the other project managers time and expenses. I do know that the kids made more money than other workers yet did absolutely nothing to earn it but I didn't care as long as they stayed away making my day easier...this is typical of many business in america, thus the lazy employee

Again and again mikie, you're looking at it from a capitalistic private sector POV.

This is CBA bargained for agreement with granted anti-trust benefits for the owners provided they follow the agreement with a union.

 

[O.Z.O.]

honestly don't care.

Figure it out or I'll find something else do with with my Sundays.

 

[mikiemo83]

Again and again mikie, you're looking at it from a capitalistic private sector POV.

This is CBA bargained for agreement with granted anti-trust benefits for the owners provided they follow the agreement with a union.

I am but that is what I know

So 57% is agreed upon and the economy got flushed why not try to rework it?
Most other companies are these days breaking
Deals

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I am but that is what I know

So 57% is agreed upon and the economy got flushed why not try to rework it?
Most other companies are these days breaking
Deals

NOTHING is broken with the NFL. All time high TV revenue deals guarantee that and ar esigned at the rate for years to come.

 

[mikiemo83]

NOTHING is broken with the NFL. All time high TV revenue deals guarantee that and ar esigned at the rate for years to come.

I bet there is more issues than you think. I suggest certain teams are losing money and the other owners are tired of bailing out the Buffalo and Jax type of teams.

what would you think if the money the owners took back froze ticket prices for the length of the deal?

do not think for a minute the Pats did not raised prices this off-season because of concern for the fans, it is to keep the books down a bit and once this deal is done watch the price of tickets rise 15-20% across the board in Foxboro the next season.

Sure I am talking small money in the big picture but it all adds up.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I bet there is more issues than you think. I suggest certain teams are losing money and the other owners are tired of bailing out the Buffalo and Jax type of teams.

what would you think if the money the owners took back froze ticket prices for the length of the deal?

do not think for a minute the Pats did not raised prices this off-season because of concern for the fans, it is to keep the books down a bit and once this deal is done watch the price of tickets rise 15-20% across the board in Foxboro the next season.

Sure I am talking small money in the big picture but it all adds up.

NO teams are losing money. NONE.

And the money skimmed off the top in no way will dictate ticket prices. That is and always will be determined by supply and demand. The Krafts will assign as high a monetary value to each ticket that they can in order to maximize as high a return on investment as possible.

 

[mikiemo83]

NO teams are losing money. NONE.

And the money skimmed off the top in no way will dictate ticket prices. That is and always will be determined by supply and demand. The Krafts will assign as high a monetary value to each ticket that they can in order to maximize as high a return on investment as possible.

I take the Owners side in this but do not think they are free of blame. it takes both sides to disagree and both are going for it all hoping to give in a little to get a lot. My Issue is with the label Union - they are not a union but a collection of players.

sorry phone break, pissed off client


maybe this season no team lost money but I know that in 2009 the Dolphins and the Lions both lost money, according to Forbes. I think I remember during the same year many teams, and the league offices, cut positions lowering the numbers in the work force because of the economy. I know the average life of a player, I understand the complications later in life and think long term health care should be part of the deal. I also see players offered matching investments in their 401 but declined only to show up with a new Escalade with rims days later. My Cobra insurance would be over $20,000 a year so I understand the need for healthcare but a little preplanning would make a huge difference for many of these players. If I go into the NFL knowing I will at the least make $300,000 a year for 3 years, I could work with my agent to try to set up my future.

Who risk more? the owners or the players in the NFL? is it the BIllion Dollar investment an Owner makes? or the Physical abuse the player endures?

I think it is the owners putting it all out there, the player choose to play football, nothing says they have too, it is the chance to make a minimum of 300,000 grand as a rookie that makes them endure that pain.

as for tickets prices, why are the tickets not higher with 50,000 on the waiting list?

 

[midgar8784]

I guess slightlly toward the players. The notion that yeah you work for the owners is all fine and good, but when Jerry Jones makes horrid investments and loses money on a stadium and bad contracts and now wants more money to cover for it, that does not really seem right. Play two more games and take less money so I can rebound from my horrible investments into a stadium and bad contracts....cannot get on board with that. Not to mention they will not open their books to at least show why they want more money. I do think the players asking the drafted kids to stay home is Horse shit though, that is about as petty as it gets.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I take the Owners side in this but do not think they are free of blame. it takes both sides to disagree and both are going for it all hoping to give in a little to get a lot. My Issue is with the label Union - they are not a union but a collection of players.

sorry phone break, pissed off client


maybe this season no team lost money but I know that in 2009 the Dolphins and the Lions both lost money, according to Forbes.How do they know this without access to ANY detailed accounting records? I think I remember during the same year many teams, and the league offices, cut positions lowering the numbers in the work force because of the economy. I know the average life of a player, I understand the complications later in life and think long term health care should be part of the deal. I also see players offered matching investments in their 401 but declined only to show up with a new Escalade with rims days later. My Cobra insurance would be over $20,000 a year so I understand the need for healthcare but a little preplanning would make a huge difference for many of these players. If I go into the NFL knowing I will at the least make $300,000 a year for 3 years, I could work with my agent to try to set up my future.

Who risk more? the owners or the players in the NFL? is it the BIllion Dollar investment an Owner makes? or the Physical abuse the player endures?

No owner has put up $1 billion. Kraty took $105 million and turned it into in excess of $1 billion, so that shows you how well an investment it really is.

I think it is the owners putting it all out there, the player choose to play football, nothing says they have too, it is the chance to make a minimum of 300,000 grand as a rookie that makes them endure that pain. Not many of the owners are "putting it all out there". They made their fortunes elsewhere and this is a high priced toy for them.

as for tickets prices, why are the tickets not higher with 50,000 on the waiting list?They continue to go up every year or 3, right? And they will continue to until that wait list is gone, regardless of how much they are paying players.

I just don't trust a word the ownership says. From the backhanded deal with the TV networks to insulate themselves for their intended lockout all along to their unwillingness to open the books and disclose the true expenditures in the $1 billion slush fund that they want to double. Until then, nope.

 

[mikiemo83]

I just don't trust a word the ownership says. From the backhanded deal with the TV networks to insulate themselves for their intended lockout all along to their unwillingness to open the books and disclose the true expenditures in the $1 billion slush fund that they want to double. Until then, nope.

I don't trust either side, I had a bad feeling since i heard both sides are led by two gentlemen with no history of Negotiation. I knew this was going to get ugly.

I thought the Owners agreed to open the book for the past 5 years, the time frame since the last CBA was signed in 2006. The players want 10 years, why not take the past 5 years and run with it if the players are so sure of the money made during this current deal?

 

[Number Cruncher]

The Owners...

From Miguel's Pages at PatFans...

What has been the salary cap limits?

2008 $116,729,000
2007 $109,134,000
2006 $102,000,000
2005 $85,500,000
2004 $80,582,000
2003 $75,007,000
2002 $71,100,000
2001 $67,400,000
2000 $62,172,000
1999 $58,353,000

The cap has DOUBLED in the last decade. Why? Because the OWNERS went out and improved Revenue Streams. 2006 saw a 19% increase over the prior year, with 2007 and 2008 seeing 7% increases respectively. Anyone else getting that kind of love at work?

The players want the books open so they can find any hidden revenue streams that they can attack. And sure, they are probably looking for "dirt" on what Junior is taking home is his paycheck. If you are an owner, do you open your books so these assholes can pour though them and nitpick every single expenditure. NOT A CHANCE.

Since the players are demanding access to each and every revenue stream, I say the owners should do the same. Hey FOREHEAD, every cent that you get from showing your ugly mug on tv should be put into a pool to help your UNION BROTHERS, both past and present, because hey, every dime should be on the table.

**** each and every one of these goddamn players.


FWIW, the owners are not without sin here. They took their eyes off the prize during the last negotiations. They were bickering amongst themselves and we're totally rolled by the players (helping the large cap jumps noted above). Back then, the more progressive owners were fighting off the cheapskates in their midst about their own revenue sharing agreements. The Ralphie-Boy Wilson's of the world crying poor-mouth while turning down a couple of million that could have been generated by taking his name off his run down stadium, but I digress.

It's still the owners business. They built it, they should reap the benefits.

 

[Mr. Happy Sock]

The Owners...

From Miguel's Pages at PatFans...

What has been the salary cap limits?

2008 $116,729,000
2007 $109,134,000
2006 $102,000,000
2005 $85,500,000
2004 $80,582,000
2003 $75,007,000
2002 $71,100,000
2001 $67,400,000
2000 $62,172,000
1999 $58,353,000

The cap has DOUBLED in the last decade. Why? Because the OWNERS went out and improved Revenue Streams. 2006 saw a 19% increase over the prior year, with 2007 and 2008 seeing 7% increases respectively. Anyone else getting that kind of love at work?

The players want the books open so they can find any hidden revenue streams that they can attack. And sure, they are probably looking for "dirt" on what Junior is taking home is his paycheck. If you are an owner, do you open your books so these assholes can pour though them and nitpick every single expenditure. NOT A CHANCE.

Since the players are demanding access to each and every revenue stream, I say the owners should do the same. Hey FOREHEAD, every cent that you get from showing your ugly mug on tv should be put into a pool to help your UNION BROTHERS, both past and present, because hey, every dime should be on the table.

**** each and every one of these goddamn players.


FWIW, the owners are not without sin here. They took their eyes off the prize during the last negotiations. They were bickering amongst themselves and we're totally rolled by the players (helping the large cap jumps noted above). Back then, the more progressive owners were fighting off the cheapskates in their midst about their own revenue sharing agreements. The Ralphie-Boy Wilson's of the world crying poor-mouth while turning down a couple of million that could have been generated by taking his name off his run down stadium, but I digress.

It's still the owners business. They built it, they should reap the benefits.

And BOOM goes the Dynamite!

/Thread

 

[PatsFan09]

The Owners...

From Miguel's Pages at PatFans...

What has been the salary cap limits?

2008 $116,729,000
2007 $109,134,000
2006 $102,000,000
2005 $85,500,000
2004 $80,582,000
2003 $75,007,000
2002 $71,100,000
2001 $67,400,000
2000 $62,172,000
1999 $58,353,000

The cap has DOUBLED in the last decade. Why? Because the OWNERS went out and improved Revenue Streams. 2006 saw a 19% increase over the prior year, with 2007 and 2008 seeing 7% increases respectively. Anyone else getting that kind of love at work?

The players want the books open so they can find any hidden revenue streams that they can attack. And sure, they are probably looking for "dirt" on what Junior is taking home is his paycheck. If you are an owner, do you open your books so these assholes can pour though them and nitpick every single expenditure. NOT A CHANCE.

Since the players are demanding access to each and every revenue stream, I say the owners should do the same. Hey FOREHEAD, every cent that you get from showing your ugly mug on tv should be put into a pool to help your UNION BROTHERS, both past and present, because hey, every dime should be on the table.

**** each and every one of these goddamn players.


FWIW, the owners are not without sin here. They took their eyes off the prize during the last negotiations. They were bickering amongst themselves and we're totally rolled by the players (helping the large cap jumps noted above). Back then, the more progressive owners were fighting off the cheapskates in their midst about their own revenue sharing agreements. The Ralphie-Boy Wilson's of the world crying poor-mouth while turning down a couple of million that could have been generated by taking his name off his run down stadium, but I digress.

It's still the owners business. They built it, they should reap the benefits.

Full.
Of.
This.
x10000

 

[midgar8784]

Full.
Of.
This.
x10000

bad thing is, when the owners have retired they likely will not have had 10 knee surgeries and not know what their wifes name is. I see both sides, but the owners are not exactly innocent. Hey lets play two more games and get paid less because I made bad investments. I can see how both sides would see it their own way.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

The Owners...

From Miguel's Pages at PatFans...

What has been the salary cap limits?

2008 $116,729,000
2007 $109,134,000
2006 $102,000,000
2005 $85,500,000
2004 $80,582,000
2003 $75,007,000
2002 $71,100,000
2001 $67,400,000
2000 $62,172,000
1999 $58,353,000

The cap has DOUBLED in the last decade. Why? Because the OWNERS went out and improved Revenue Streams. 2006 saw a 19% increase over the prior year, with 2007 and 2008 seeing 7% increases respectively. Anyone else getting that kind of love at work?

The players want the books open so they can find any hidden revenue streams that they can attack. And sure, they are probably looking for "dirt" on what Junior is taking home is his paycheck. If you are an owner, do you open your books so these assholes can pour though them and nitpick every single expenditure. NOT A CHANCE.

Since the players are demanding access to each and every revenue stream, I say the owners should do the same. Hey FOREHEAD, every cent that you get from showing your ugly mug on tv should be put into a pool to help your UNION BROTHERS, both past and present, because hey, every dime should be on the table.

**** each and every one of these goddamn players.


FWIW, the owners are not without sin here. They took their eyes off the prize during the last negotiations. They were bickering amongst themselves and we're totally rolled by the players (helping the large cap jumps noted above). Back then, the more progressive owners were fighting off the cheapskates in their midst about their own revenue sharing agreements. The Ralphie-Boy Wilson's of the world crying poor-mouth while turning down a couple of million that could have been generated by taking his name off his run down stadium, but I digress.

It's still the owners business. They built it, they should reap the benefits.

Do you think league overall revenues have doubled in the last decade? I don't think it's that much. Sure the players have gotten a significantly better piece of the pie, but I venture to say that previously the pie was in the same ballpark and the owner was eating quite a bit more of it.

I'd be hard pressed to point the finger at Manning. I used to hate seeing his mug on anything and everything too, until I was informed on this site he donates ALL those proceeds. I know Krafty has his charitable thing, but I'd guess the money Peyton is hauling in probably dwarfs his givings.

The owners opted out of this. The players wanted nothing but status quo. And the owners stood fast and delayed because they were too confident the $4 billion war fund would kick in. And now they want to double the money skimmed off the top to $2 billion, to grow the game in their words as "partners" with no disclosure of where that money goes.

Some partnership.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I don't trust either side, I had a bad feeling since i heard both sides are led by two gentlemen with no history of Negotiation. I knew this was going to get ugly.

I thought the Owners agreed to open the book for the past 5 years, the time frame since the last CBA was signed in 2006. The players want 10 years, why not take the past 5 years and run with it if the players are so sure of the money made during this current deal?

Those aren't fully audited open books IIRC.

Take Jerry Jones as an easy target. He's the owner, President, and GM. He's surely taking in a salary for each of those positions and knowing his ego he's probably paying himself AT LEAST top 5 in each category. Now say he pays himself $20 mil as Owner, $10 Mil as President, and $8 mil as GM. In the league earnings articles we get to see it says the Cowboys earned $10 mil total.

Well does Jerry count at $10 mil? Or the cumulative $48 mil? Plus his whole freakin' family is on board too at more than likely ridiculous nuts too.

None of this info comes to light unless it's audited and exposed open books. And that's the crux of it. Legit expenses. Not undisclosed expenditures with your hand out to double your current slush fund.

 

[harrisonhits]

<<
So....Where do YOU stand on the standoff between the NFL and the NFLPA?
>>

I have stopped following the NFL. The greedy pricks will never get another dime from me again. There are plenty of ways to entertain myself without football. I stopped watching the NBA and NHL in the 80s, MLB in the 90s and don't miss them at all. Now football has joined my FU list.

Just disgusted by the behavior and greed on both sides.

 

[dchester]

Originally I was slightly more on the players side, because the owners were threatening the lockout, and that deal they made with the TV networks about taking less money, to get paid even if they lock out the players. Since the talks broke down, I've ended up sided with the owners. The players turned down the owners last minute offer without even extending for a few more days to really go through it. I also think the players demand for 10 years of full books is ridiculous, and Adrian Peterson's stupid comments about their employment being modern day slavery really pissed me off.

 

[PatsFan09]

The mere fact that Gene Upshaw himself said that the last CBA completely favored the players tells me that the next one should be balanced.