The battle for 1st seed - 2018

[O.Z.O.]

No guys, Hogfucker is right...

Mahomes is the GOAT. Without question. What he's done over the course of 8 games trumps anything Brady has done over 19 years. I mean, what is 200+ wins, 5 rings, 500 TD passes in the face of a 7-1 record and on pace to throw the 2nd most TD passes ever in a season? And yes, a 2nd year guys is definitely a rookie if he didn't play his first season, making it all the more impressive. I'm sure he'll be enshrined in Canton by the end of this season.

Silly me.

 

[Ryan91]

Yehoodi gets it

BOZO is in denial

If I had 2:00 to go 90 yards to win I'd want

1)Mahomes
2)Rodgers
3)Brady

If I had 3rd down and 25 I'd want
1)Mahomes
2)Rodgers
3) nobody

How many Game Winning Drives does Mahomes have? 0

How many successful 4th Quarter comebacks does Mahomes have? 0

How many clutch wins does Mahomes have? 0

The kid hasn't done shit so far.

 

[O.Z.O.]

How about with 1:15 left and having to drive for 77 yards for a TD to win while playing away?

Sorry I am going to interject my crap here, too.
I see a high probability after this weekend Steelers will be no.2 seed.

Pats lose to GB (short week for Pats, GB desperate)
Chargers lose to Seattle in Seattle
Thinking even the Chiefs get surprised in Cleveland. Stout D. New coach.

Steelers are out for revenge against a nemesis.

Relax, It's only week 9.

Green Bay isn't coming in to the Razor and beating the Pats next Sunday in prime time. The new GOAT has stolen the league's love away from Rodgers.

 

[O.Z.O.]

How many Game Winning Drives does Mahomes have? 0

How many successful 4th Quarter comebacks does Mahomes have? 0

How many clutch wins does Mahomes have? 0

The kid hasn't done shit so far.

well, of course he listed Rodgers ahead of Brady. He's a Queefs fan. What does he know about winning? I'm sure watching Rodgers march downfield for a 4th quarter TD against a shitty Bears or Lions team in October in a game where the Packer defense has (again) shit the bed against an inferior opponent is FAR more impressive than what Brady did in the 4th quarter of SB 49. Or SB 51.

Yeah, I'm in denial...

 

[O.Z.O.]

How about with 1:15 left and having to drive for 77 yards for a TD to win while playing away?

Sorry I am going to interject my crap here, too.
I see a high probability after this weekend Steelers will be no.2 seed.

Pats lose to GB (short week for Pats, GB desperate)
Chargers lose to Seattle in Seattle
Thinking even the Chiefs get surprised in Cleveland. Stout D. New coach.

Steelers are out for revenge against a nemesis.

Relax, It's only week 9.

Pack just traded Clinton-Dix to the Redskins. Not going to help their secondary.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

No guys, Hogfucker is right...

Mahomes is the GOAT. Without question. What he's done over the course of 8 games trumps anything Brady has done over 19 years. I mean, what is 200+ wins, 5 rings, 500 TD passes in the face of a 7-1 record and on pace to throw the 2nd most TD passes ever in a season? And yes, a 2nd year guys is definitely a rookie if he didn't play his first season, making it all the more impressive. I'm sure he'll be enshrined in Canton by the end of this season.

Silly me.

With the loss to...

View attachment 102062

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Ty Montgomery for a 7th?

He could’ve helped

 

[Giant Octopodes]

Brady went out and beat the Greatest Show on Turf in the Super Bowl that year. He was never referred to as a rookie at any point.

And yeah, I despise the sports media and have for a long time. Brees/Manning/Rodgers have as many rings combined as Brady does. Brady has the numbers. Brady has the wins. Brady has EVERYTHING, yet these miserable little shit bags are always looking for somebody to promote ahead of him as the GOAT. You could be somewhat in the same zip code with Brees. Maybe on the same planet with Rodgers. But MAHOMES? Not in this or any alternate universe at this point in his career.

No they don't. They have 4, Brady has 5. I just want to point out a curious tidbit too- other than Brady, there are 6 QBs who have won Super Bowls who are active. Eli Manning and Roethlisberger have 2 each, and Rodgers, Flacco, Wilson, and Foles have 1. If Eli Manning retires this year (he would be smart to), and Brady wins his 6th this year (not impossible), Brady would have as many rings as Every Other QB in the NFL *combined*. I know that's a theoretical on a theoretical, I just felt like using that to demonstrate exactly how far the gulf is between Brady and everyone else.

Yehoodi gets it

BOZO is in denial

If I had 2:00 to go 90 yards to win I'd want

1)Mahomes
2)Rodgers
3)Brady

If I had 3rd down and 25 I'd want
1)Mahomes
2)Rodgers
3) nobody

Look I know you're just trolling but Rodgers has 19 game winning drives in his career, never getting more than 3 during the course of a season, and only 2 in the playoffs, ever. It's not like his teams have been *so good* that he hasn't had a shot at it either. It's worth pointing out that in 2014 Rodgers faced the Seahawks in the NFCCG, and he had 1:25 to go, down 3. They settled for a field goal, it went to overtime, Seahawks won. Brady then faced that same team in the Super Bowl and actually beat them, getting the TD when down 3 to put his team up 4, instead of simply tying the game.

Brady and Rodgers will likely never play in a Super Bowl against each other, not for lack of effort on Brady's part, he's been to 5 while Rodgers has been playing, Rodgers just hasn't been able to hold up his end of the bargain. But that matchup (Seahawks vs Packers then vs Pats) was as definitive as you can get of a comparison of how they would compare in similar circumstances. Brady has 43 game winning drives, 11 in the playoffs, and has a season where it was more common for Brady to get a 4th Quarter Comeback and Game Winning Drive than it was for them to lose a game (2013, Brady had 5 4QCs and 5 GWDs, the Patriots finished 12-4).

I'm just saying, there are many positive things you could say about Aaron Rodgers. "Clutch" is not one of the things he is known as, and there's good reason for that. People forget that Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger have only been playing a year more than Rodgers, and they have 35 and 40 game winning drives respectively, not to mention double the rings Rodgers has to go with it (almost like there's some kind of correlation). Heck, Alex Smith has been more clutch than Rodgers. When looking at it in terms of "GWD/Season", Rodgers is not only not the top, he's not even a top 16 kind of QB.

People will forgive the blatant homerism on display and the absurdity of saying you'd want Mahomes over anybody when he's only got 2 game winning drives in his entire career, but having your second choice be a guy who is below average seriously degrades the legitimacy of any argument you'd want to make.

 

[O.Z.O.]

Ty Montgomery for a 7th?

He could’ve helped

The Packers are cleaning house. They must see the writing on the wall.

 

[TommyD420]

well, of course he listed Rodgers ahead of Brady. He's a Queefs fan. What does he know about winning? I'm sure watching Rodgers march downfield for a 4th quarter TD against a shitty Bears or Lions team in October in a game where the Packer defense has (again) shit the bed against an inferior opponent is FAR more impressive than what Brady did in the 4th quarter of SB 49. Or SB 51.

Yeah, I'm in denial...

Or, you know, what he did to Mahomes. To his face. Like a couple weeks ago. I don't even care about legacy and history, it's irrelevant to the discussion.

What has happened in the last, oh, 9 games? The entirety of Mahomes' career.

Mahomes has done nothing that Alex Smith hasn't already done, and done better. Fact. Stats are worthless bar argument fantasy football nonsense. Ws and Ls. That's all that matters in the end.

Alex Smith was the first QB to win a playoff game for Kansas City since Joe Montana. Fact.

Alex Smith won 10 consecutive games in 2015. Fact.

Alex Smith started the season 9-0 in 2013. Fact.

Alex Smith had 11 4th Quarter comebacks, just for the Chiefs. Fact.

If this dumbass wants to splooge all over the board about some 2nd year QB who's done nothing notable outside of some fantasy stats - it really tells you all you need to know, doesn't it?

 

[O.Z.O.]

No they don't. They have 4, Brady has 5. I just want to point out a curious tidbit too- other than Brady, there are 6 QBs who have won Super Bowls who are active. Eli Manning and Roethlisberger have 2 each, and Rodgers, Flacco, Wilson, and Foles have 1. If Eli Manning retires this year (he would be smart to), and Brady wins his 6th this year (not impossible), Brady would have as many rings as Every Other QB in the NFL *combined*. I know that's a theoretical on a theoretical, I just felt like using that to demonstrate exactly how far the gulf is between Brady and everyone else.

yeah...that whole math thing

Look I know you're just trolling but Rodgers has 19 game winning drives in his career, never getting more than 3 during the course of a season, and only 2 in the playoffs, ever. It's not like his teams have been *so good* that he hasn't had a shot at it either. It's worth pointing out that in 2014 Rodgers faced the Seahawks in the NFCCG, and he had 1:25 to go, down 3. They settled for a field goal, it went to overtime, Seahawks won. Brady then faced that same team in the Super Bowl and actually beat them, getting the TD when down 3 to put his team up 4, instead of simply tying the game.

Brady and Rodgers will likely never play in a Super Bowl against each other, not for lack of effort on Brady's part, he's been to 5 while Rodgers has been playing, Rodgers just hasn't been able to hold up his end of the bargain. But that matchup (Seahawks vs Packers then vs Pats) was as definitive as you can get of a comparison of how they would compare in similar circumstances. Brady has 43 game winning drives, 11 in the playoffs, and has a season where it was more common for Brady to get a 4th Quarter Comeback and Game Winning Drive than it was for them to lose a game (2013, Brady had 5 4QCs and 5 GWDs, the Patriots finished 12-4).

I'm just saying, there are many positive things you could say about Aaron Rodgers. "Clutch" is not one of the things he is known as, and there's good reason for that. People forget that Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger have only been playing a year more than Rodgers, and they have 35 and 40 game winning drives respectively, not to mention double the rings Rodgers has to go with it (almost like there's some kind of correlation). Heck, Alex Smith has been more clutch than Rodgers. When looking at it in terms of "GWD/Season", Rodgers is not only not the top, he's not even a top 16 kind of QB.

People will forgive the blatant homerism on display and the absurdity of saying you'd want Mahomes over anybody when he's only got 2 game winning drives in his entire career, but having your second choice be a guy who is below average seriously degrades the legitimacy of any argument you'd want to make.

well, the national sports media has been pumping the image of Rodgers as the GOAT forever now, and he's probably worth more fantasy points week in and week out because he has to take off and run for his life more than Brady...so yeah, it's Rodgers!

This guy isn't even a good troll.

 

[TommyD420]

Ty Montgomery for a 7th?

He could’ve helped

We already have Cordarelle Patterson on the roster.

 

[O.Z.O.]

Or, you know, what he did to Mahomes. To his face. Like a couple weeks ago. I don't even care about legacy and history, it's irrelevant to the discussion.

What has happened in the last, oh, 9 games? The entirety of Mahomes' career.

Mahomes has done nothing that Alex Smith hasn't already done, and done better. Fact. Stats are worthless bar argument fantasy football nonsense. Ws and Ls. That's all that matters in the end.

Alex Smith was the first QB to win a playoff game for Kansas City since Joe Montana. Fact.

Alex Smith won 10 consecutive games in 2015. Fact.

Alex Smith started the season 9-0 in 2013. Fact.

Alex Smith had 11 4th Quarter comebacks, just for the Chiefs. Fact.

If this dumbass wants to splooge all over the board about some 2nd year QB who's done nothing notable outside of some fantasy stats - it really tells you all you need to know, doesn't it?

butbutbut...the national sports media fluffs this guy nonstop and he puts up more fantasy points than any other QB so he HAS to be the GOAT.

Ya know, I'm almost embarrassed for this guy...almost

 

[TommyD420]

butbutbut...the national sports media fluffs this guy nonstop and he puts up more fantasy points than any other QB so he HAS to be the GOAT.

Ya know, I'm almost embarrassed for this guy...almost

The National Sports Media also fluffed:

Sam Darnold
Josh Rosen
Brock Osweiler
Ryan Tannehill
Colin Kaepernick
Robert Griffin III
Kirk Cousins
Derek Carr
Mark Sanchez
Dak Prescott
Jameis Winston
Ryan Fitzpatrick, like, a dozen times
Mitch Trubisky
Matt Flynn


Those are just the first handful that come to mind. There are literally dozens of others (Jay Fiedler, Rob Johnson) that I could come up with.

The National Media will fluff anything that can string together a couple of good games in a row. In Darnold and Flynn's case, one win in a row. Oh wait, Flynn was a loss, but it was close.

Talk to me when this guy has done anything meaningful that Alex Smith hasn't already done with inferior personnel. Anything else is just mindless blather from an idiot.

There's no need to even introduce legacy and established results from before. You can compare results on the timeframe of the entirety of Mahomes' career, and both Brady and Rodgers, not to mention Jared Goff, Ben Roethlisberger, Nick Fucking Foles and Case Fucking Keenum, again, just the first ones that come to mind, have had superior success.

Don't perpetuate the nonsense, and it will disappear. Or do. But it's not necessary.

 

[Hogfarmer]

No guys, Hogfucker is right...

Mahomes is the GOAT. Without question. What he's done over the course of 8 games trumps anything Brady has done over 19 years. I mean, what is 200+ wins, 5 rings, 500 TD passes in the face of a 7-1 record and on pace to throw the 2nd most TD passes ever in a season? And yes, a 2nd year guys is definitely a rookie if he didn't play his first season, making it all the more impressive. I'm sure he'll be enshrined in Canton by the end of this season.

Silly me.

Glad to see you're coming around . BTW

Mahomes has thrown for over 300 yards 7 straight games. He's only played 9.

What's Bradys streak ?

 

[Yehoodi]

Yehoodi gets it

If I had 2:00 to go 90 yards to win I'd want

1)Mahomes
2)Rodgers
3)Brady

If I had 3rd down and 25 I'd want
1)Mahomes
2)Rodgers
3) nobody

Hogfarmer says I get it, how bad can he be . . . .

Seriously, just a few random thoughts . . .

Mahomes is having a great first half season and is on the short lists of folks for MVP and folks in KC and surrounding areas are all excited about this kid as being the savoir of the franchise. It good to be excited but in perspective.

They may be correct and they may not be correct, time will te3ll. It was not too long ago that some of the Pats fan base (along with media and some of which still think so) that Jimmy G. was the bees knees only after playing about a game and a half. This only escalated with some media around here when he won all of those game late last season.

So maybe Jimmy G. and Mahomes will go on to have great careers, maybe they will fall back to the pack like Wilson and Luck. Who knows time will tell. And as Tommyd420 mentioned, we have seen a large number of 8 game wonders who have come back to the pack.

I like both QBs but have equal reservations for each QB.

As for Mahomes 8 games this year and 9 overall being a sign of the future i think we need to see the following before one can have a truer view of his greatness.

What can he do when and/or after (some of which have been mentioned already) . . .

- He is not driving a Cadaillac for a team
- First real pressure meaningful game (he did lose to the Pats)
- After injuries to him or teammates
- Roster turnover
- 2nd contract
- Teams get a bead on him
- After a few successful seasons or first SB
- Front office not giving him the weapons
- how many 4th qtr comebacks and GWD will he have per opporunity

The above are just a few that will get a better read on Mahomes. As he stands now he is just, to me, a Jimmy G. wearing red with a ton of weapons.

As for game winning drives. For me I like to see the percentage of games in which the QB has the opportunity to get a game winning drive or 4th qtr comeback and ones that he has convert. That is a truer test of the clutch value of the QB, not the amount of them, but how often did you do it when it presented itself.

Often times one is on a weak team and/or does not perform in the first 3 qtrs thereby being behind. At the same time if one is doing his job in the first three quarters there is no opportunity to have a 4th qtr comeback or GWD

From what i recall Brady was around 50% which was a lot higher than others and if i remember at the time Rodgers was not that high.

And again getting back to Maholmes, let see what he does when some of the above passing his plate. As for now he is having a great season, but it just a single season.

 

[patswin]

Hogfarmer says I get it, how bad can he be . . . .

Seriously, just a few random thoughts . . .

Mahomes is having a great first half season and is on the short lists of folks for MVP and folks in KC and surrounding areas are all excited about this kid as being the savoir of the franchise. It good to be excited but in perspective.

They may be correct and they may not be correct, time will te3ll. It was not too long ago that some of the Pats fan base (along with media and some of which still think so) that Jimmy G. was the bees knees only after playing about a game and a half. This only escalated with some media around here when he won all of those game late last season.

So maybe Jimmy G. and Mahomes will go on to have great careers, maybe they will fall back to the pack like Wilson and Luck. Who knows time will tell. And as Tommyd420 mentioned, we have seen a large number of 8 game wonders who have come back to the pack.

I like both QBs but have equal reservations for each QB.

As for Mahomes 8 games this year and 9 overall being a sign of the future i think we need to see the following before one can have a truer view of his greatness.

What can he do when and/or after (some of which have been mentioned already) . . .

- He is not driving a Cadaillac for a team
- First real pressure meaningful game (he did lose to the Pats)
- After injuries to him or teammates
- Roster turnover
- 2nd contract
- Teams get a bead on him
- After a few successful seasons or first SB
- Front office not giving him the weapons
- how many 4th qtr comebacks and GWD will he have per opporunity

The above are just a few that will get a better read on Mahomes. As he stands now he is just, to me, a Jimmy G. wearing red with a ton of weapons.

As for game winning drives. For me I like to see the percentage of games in which the QB has the opportunity to get a game winning drive or 4th qtr comeback and ones that he has convert. That is a truer test of the clutch value of the QB, not the amount of them, but how often did you do it when it presented itself.

Often times one is on a weak team and/or does not perform in the first 3 qtrs thereby being behind. At the same time if one is doing his job in the first three quarters there is no opportunity to have a 4th qtr comeback or GWD

From what i recall Brady was around 50% which was a lot higher than others and if i remember at the time Rodgers was not that high.

And again getting back to Maholmes, let see what he does when some of the above passing his plate. As for now he is having a great season, but it just a single season.

We'll also see if he's willing to take shit money so the team can buy talent around him, Not for a year, 2 years, 10 years, but 15 and beyond. ( Not likely).

More likely the Chiefs pay him a kings ransom and screw themselves. Or, when FA time comes, the Pats grab him as Brady's successor. The cachet of a winning tradition might be appealing, and face it, KC has nothing to offer in that area.

 

[Yehoodi]

We'll also see if he's willing to take shit money so the team can buy talent around him, Not for a year, 2 years, 10 years, but 15 and beyond. ( Not likely).

More likely the Chiefs pay him a kings ransom and screw themselves. Or, when FA time comes, the Pats grab him as Brady's successor. The cachet of a winning tradition might be appealing, and face it, KC has nothing to offer in that area.

Bingo . . . Like with many top of the line QBs, or ones that are thought to be top of the line, the teams will want to pay them to keep the QB and want to surround him with talent so he can put up big numbers. and make an unbalanced team and/or not be able to bring enough talent around the QB.

I think one thing that Brady legacy will have is that not only did he take below market value, he played for a team that demanded a lot from its players (and he was the lead example), and for 17 years (with a few years exception maybe '09 and '10) the Pats were in the hunt to go deep in Jan.

This was all done with some teams that were healthy, some with injuries and some with guys off the street to play on the team.

It is highly unlike we will see a repeat of this resume.

And Brady is still adding to it.

 

[Giant Octopodes]

Hogfarmer says I get it, how bad can he be . . . .

Seriously, just a few random thoughts . . .

Mahomes is having a great first half season and is on the short lists of folks for MVP and folks in KC and surrounding areas are all excited about this kid as being the savoir of the franchise. It good to be excited but in perspective.

They may be correct and they may not be correct, time will te3ll. It was not too long ago that some of the Pats fan base (along with media and some of which still think so) that Jimmy G. was the bees knees only after playing about a game and a half. This only escalated with some media around here when he won all of those game late last season.

So maybe Jimmy G. and Mahomes will go on to have great careers, maybe they will fall back to the pack like Wilson and Luck. Who knows time will tell. And as Tommyd420 mentioned, we have seen a large number of 8 game wonders who have come back to the pack.

I like both QBs but have equal reservations for each QB.

As for Mahomes 8 games this year and 9 overall being a sign of the future i think we need to see the following before one can have a truer view of his greatness.

What can he do when and/or after (some of which have been mentioned already) . . .

- He is not driving a Cadaillac for a team
- First real pressure meaningful game (he did lose to the Pats)
- After injuries to him or teammates
- Roster turnover
- 2nd contract
- Teams get a bead on him
- After a few successful seasons or first SB
- Front office not giving him the weapons
- how many 4th qtr comebacks and GWD will he have per opporunity

The above are just a few that will get a better read on Mahomes. As he stands now he is just, to me, a Jimmy G. wearing red with a ton of weapons.

As for game winning drives. For me I like to see the percentage of games in which the QB has the opportunity to get a game winning drive or 4th qtr comeback and ones that he has convert. That is a truer test of the clutch value of the QB, not the amount of them, but how often did you do it when it presented itself.

Often times one is on a weak team and/or does not perform in the first 3 qtrs thereby being behind. At the same time if one is doing his job in the first three quarters there is no opportunity to have a 4th qtr comeback or GWD

From what i recall Brady was around 50% which was a lot higher than others and if i remember at the time Rodgers was not that high.

And again getting back to Maholmes, let see what he does when some of the above passing his plate. As for now he is having a great season, but it just a single season.

Could not agree more. In fact as I was looking at the data readily available I had the exact same thought- after controlling for opportunity, how many took advantage. I suspect though we might quibble over what constitutes "opportunity". After all, just being behind in the 4th quarter doesn't really count, right? Being behind by 30 at the start of the 4th quarter is not exactly a chance for a 4th quarter comeback after all. Plus, if your defense gives up 30 points in the 4th quarter, while you score 28, that's not good enough, but scoring 7 when down 3 at the start of the 4th quarter while your defense shuts them out counts?

So overall, it's hard to say what truly counts and what does not, in the same way that one might gripe about the fact that a bounce pass 1 yard forward to a RB in motion counts as a "passing" TD, but certainly I think it's a worthy discussion. What do you think should count as "opportunity" and what should not, and where did you see those metrics regarding conversion on those "opportunities", if you have any idea? If not no biggie, I definitely think it's worth researching regardless.

 

[chevss454]

Glad to see you're coming around . BTW

Mahomes has thrown for over 300 yards 7 straight games. He's only played 9.

What's Bradys streak ?

5 straight wins.
Most SB wins
Most SB MVPs
Most Division titles
Most Playoff wins
Most wins by a QB
60 consecutive games, home & away, as the favorite to win. (Kurt Warner 55; Steve Young 44. Mahomes? 2.)

and Brady holds about 75 more important NFL records.


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