The Matt Patricia sucks vs Mac Jones sucks thread.

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aloyouis said:
Mac is playing poorly. The coaching staff on O is why.
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It's not the only reason though which is what you seem to consistently think it is. I think it's a combination of bad coaching and O Line play and bad QB play. Surely you don't absolve Mac for all the failings on offense?
 
Roberto71 said:
It's not the only reason though which is what you seem to consistently think it is. I think it's a combination of bad coaching and O Line play and bad QB play. Surely you don't absolve Mac for all the failings on offense?
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The entire operation has fallen apart. IMO, it all starts with Bill's hires of Matt and Judge. Bringing the guys on always had the potential to wreak havoc but I am not sure any of us (myself included) could have predicted this. It appears to be an open rebellion from the players. Mac is pretty much yelling and throwing his arms up every time there is a bad play. We sure are a long ways from the "Patriot Way" but I think we all understood that those 20 years were magic in a bottle. Today's athletes are much more petulant and vocal. To me, Mac has lost his composure which I find interesting on so many levels because this season was his first real test at handling adversity and he has literally fallen apart mentally. Imagine if he had to go through Spygate or Deflategate?
 
Roberto71 said:
It's not the only reason though which is what you seem to consistently think it is. I think it's a combination of bad coaching and O Line play and bad QB play. Surely you don't absolve Mac for all the failings on offense?
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No. I don’t. His play has been poor as it was toward the end of the last season.

I think he hit the rookie wall last year, as I stated above. I think Josh McDaniels was being extremely careful towards the end of the year to make sure his potential status as it head coach somewhere else was maintained.

MAC worked extremely hard over the summer to get better. He came in in better shape. He came in with a stronger arm. No one doubts that he did everything he needed to do to prepare for the season. And he hasn’t played well. But I think we have a difference of opinion as to why.

A veteran quarterback, with several seasons under his belt, probably would’ve handled the shit sandwich Mac and the rest of the offense was handed for this season, but he’s not, he’s a second year quarterback.

Having coached ice hockey for years I can tell you that the most talented teams combined with crappy coaching will not perform well. Yes, you’ll have some individuals that are able to stand out where their positions allow for them to make startlingly good individual plays (think of Stevenson).

The reverse is also true.

The 2001 Super Bowl team had a very average (if not slightly below average) quarterback, but with excellent coaching and excellent playcalling and schemes they won a SB.

Matt Jones has proven he can do it at this level with the proper support, Matt Patricia has proven he cannot do it at this level on this side of the ball.
 
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aloyouis said:
Having coached ice hockey for years I can tell you that the most talented teams combined with crappy coaching will not perform well. Yes, you’ll have some individuals that are able to stand out where their positions allow for them to make startlingly good individual players (think of Stevenson).

The reverse is also true.

The 2001 Super Bowl team had a very average (if not slightly below average) quarterback, but with excellent coaching and excellent playcalling and schemes

Matt Jones has proven he can do it at this level with the proper support, Matt Patricia has proven he cannot do it at this level on this side of the ball.
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Really!!? Those SAME coaches were there in 2000 with Bledsoe who at that time was a top 5 QB in the league and went 5-11 and began 0-2 in 2001. Stop already with blaming/crediting the coaches for everything. Football games have and always will be won primarily by the play of the starting QB.
 
Mazz22 said:
The entire operation has fallen apart. IMO, it all starts with Bill's hires of Matt and Judge. Bringing the guys on always had the potential to wreak havoc but I am not sure any of us (myself included) could have predicted this. It appears to be an open rebellion from the players. Mac is pretty much yelling and throwing his arms up every time there is a bad play. We sure are a long ways from the "Patriot Way" but I think we all understood that those 20 years were magic in a bottle. Today's athletes are much more petulant and vocal. To me, Mac has lost his composure which I find interesting on so many levels because this season was his first real test at handling adversity and he has literally fallen apart mentally. Imagine if he had to go through Spygate or Deflategate?
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I know, handling adversity takes a young man w/ the veracity of a Saint in this day & ages NFL

just think, if Tommy's Dad hadn't been one Station-of-The-Cross away from the Priesthood, we nevah woudah had


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Mazz22 said:
Really!!? Those SAME coaches were there in 2000 with Bledsoe who at that time was a top 5 QB in the league and went 5-11 and began 0-2 in 2001. Stop already with blaming/crediting the coaches for everything. Football games have and always will be won primarily by the play of the starting QB.
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So in Tampa is it coaching or the QB?
 
Mazz22 said:
Really!!? Those SAME coaches were there in 2000 with Bledsoe who at that time was a top 5 QB in the league and went 5-11 and began 0-2 in 2001. Stop already with blaming/crediting the coaches for everything. Football games have and always will be won primarily by the play of the starting QB.
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thanks, i needed to see something more absurd that the lateral on sunday. 😄
 
Gumpboy45 said:
So in Tampa is it coaching or the QB?
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Primarily its Brady. He is not able to elevate the players around him like he could before or overcome bad coaching like he did the last 2 seasons. That 2001 team was going nowhere until he stepped in. That is the power of a great QB. I assure if you go back to the press clippings in early 2001 when Bledsoe was in there no one was talking about how good the coaches were. In fact, Weis said they knew all of them were on the hot seat going into that season ... and then #12 came along and they were all "geniuses" including the All Knowing One who is now 41-42 in NE without #12.
 
Mazz22 said:
Primarily its Brady. He is not able to elevate the players around him like he could before or overcome bad coaching like he did the last 2 seasons. That 2001 team was going nowhere until he stepped in. That is the power of a great QB. I assure if you go back to the press clippings in early 2001 when Bledsoe was in there no one was talking about how good the coaches were. In fact, Weis said they knew all of them were on the hot seat going into that season ... and then #12 came along and they were all "geniuses" including the All Knowing One who is now 41-42 in NE without #12.
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I read on another NFL board something along the lines of "Since Brady left the Patriots Bill Belichick has looked like a very average coach". :shrug-n:
 
chevss454 said:
Still in the middle of a rebuild.
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But what is he trying to build? I hope he's not trying to win the same way he did with Brady because there aren't many quarterbacks who can do what Brady allowed Bill B to do for 20 years. Outside of Bill B getting a quarterback in the same mold as Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Brady, or Rodgers in their primes, he better be doing what Kyle Shannahan is doing out in SF and constructing a team that can win without having a rarity talent at QB. The above type of quarterbacks don't come in great supply and they definitely aren't in every draft.
 
chevss454 said:
Still in the middle of a rebuild.
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its funny cause look how long it has taken other teams to rebuild, how long for buffalo? so now the pats make the playoffs last year and are an average 7-7 team this year and they are given no time to turn it around after the best QB to ever play leaves. They are Drafting better the last couple of years and will next year have a good amount of money to do what they need to. Everyone wants bill and all the coached gone, you think you hate it now? just wait till bill leaves!
 
Gumpboy45 said:
its funny cause look how long it has taken other teams to rebuild, how long for buffalo? so now the pats make the playoffs last year and are an average 7-7 team this year and they are given no time to turn it around after the best QB to ever play leaves. They are Drafting better the last couple of years and will next year have a good amount of money to do what they need to. Everyone wants bill and all the coached gone, you think you hate it now? just wait till bill leaves!
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Not all the coaches. Just a couple. And not necessarily gone. Just out of the positions they have now.
 
aloyouis said:
Not all the coaches. Just a couple. And not necessarily gone. Just out of the positions they have now.
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Ace Ventura Thumbs Up GIF
 
foobahl said:
Mac had a good to great first 10 games or so of his rookie year. After the 1st Bills game, he fell back to earth and has not gotten up since. This does not remove any blame from Matty Patty. All the hand wringing about losing Josh seems to not remember the second half of last season. I was reading Lazars' after further review and of course I will agree with part 4 of it because I have been saying it for weeks. Mac is not aggressive in the pocket. He is falling or running away, gun shy if you will. Not throwing with authority. I think he has 3 weeks to play like first 10 games of his career Mac Jones or we may be looking at Mac in a Vegas jersey next season. Matty Patty will not be the OC next season and BB will be given the opportunity to stay until he surpasses Shula in the win department. Book it.
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Lazar must lurk here...he wasn't the only one saying this. :coffee:
 
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