The Wells Report

Good question to bring up.

So they only "cheat" by deflating at home, but on the road they play with regulation non-cheated footballs, and...win? And Brady likes to screw with the "feel" of the ball every other game?

And to add to that: Aren't pro athletes (especially BB's Pats) kinda OCD about consistency and detail? BB tries to make sure the weekly routine is as similar as possible, especially on short on long weeks. Players often have superstitions about the same pregame meals or the order in which the put on their pads or uniform. Now they're gonna tell me that Brady is OK with (or directs) different inflation levels depending on if it's a home or away game?
 
Or perhaps ball PSI is an overblown gimmick that really doesn't matter.

You know, like "I prefer 12.5 but it's not like I can't play if I'm handed a 13" ... the only time we know Brady had an issue was when the refs seriously overinflated balls to 16, which is obviously more likely to impact his game than 0.5-1 here or there.
 
Let's cut through the bullshit....

There is one and only one issue that should be on the table here....

Did McNally deflate the balls in the restroom? Period, end of sentence.

Here's the smoke that folks are getting confused over....

Even if Brady instructed the staff to submit footballs at 11.5, heck, let's say he instructed them to be submitted at 10.0. That is NOT AGAINST A RULE. Quarterbacks submit "out of spec" balls all the time. Why, because it is the REFEREE'S JOB to adjust them. So even if he instructed them, SO WHAT?

The crux of the matter, is if you think McNally deflated the balls during that minute and a half, then the Pats are filthy cheaters. If you think this was about a guy relieving his bladder during the confusion of a delayed start, then all this is BULLSHIT.

Personally, I'd say put McNally on a lie-detector, after the set up questions to establish a baseline, ask him that one question. What happened in the can?

End of story.
 
Here's a small reality check for you. This isn't only about the balls. This is also about all the other times the Patriots were caught cheating or bending the rules to the breaking point and received less than their due. On its own the balls don't merit more than a slap of the wrist, but at present the water buckets have just become too heavy for the NFL and they need to be dropped. If that means drop kicking Brady in the balls in the same motion, oh well.

This cannot be a serious post. By "all the other times", you mean when the team and coach received considerable fines, and lost a first round draft pick for simply continuing to do activity after being told to stop?

I'm not a paranoid fan that thinks that everyone is out I get us, and I also don't believe our team are a bunch of saints. But this particular situation is riddled with bias.
 
Here's a small reality check for you. This isn't only about the balls. This is also about all the other times the Patriots were caught cheating or bending the rules to the breaking point and received less than their due. On its own the balls don't merit more than a slap of the wrist, but at present the water buckets have just become too heavy for the NFL and they need to be dropped. If that means drop kicking Brady in the balls in the same motion, oh well.

Says the Phins fan.

Tampergate (multiple)
TEAM: The Miami Dolphins

SEVERITY:scale

SUMMARY: In 2005, the Miami Dolphins and Bill Parcells had an agreement in place with guard Justin Smiley only 17 minutes after the start of free agency.

A decades earlier in 1994, the Dolphins -- under then coach Double-Dealing Don Shula* -- reportedly pulled another fast one when free agent safety Gene Atkins just happened to be staying at a hotel a few blocks from the Dolphins training facility the night before free agency began.

Tampergate (2015: Suh)
TEAM: The Miami Dolphins

SEVERITY:scale

SUMMARY: The NFL sent all 32 teams a letter on March 9, 2015 voicing the league's displeasure with the handling of the three-day tampering period. Now the Miami Dolphins are worried that they will be the target of league investigations for their handling of the pursuit of defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh.

The "legal tampering period," which was instituted in 2013, allows teams to negotiate with impending free agents three days before they are set to hit the open market; however, no contract terms are to be reached. That rule has seemingly been broken by multiple teams prior to the 2015 NFL free agency period, including the Dolphins, who reportedly agreed to a six-year, $114 million deal with Suh on Sunday.

According to Armando Salguero of the Miami Herald, the Dolphins are now in the league's crosshairs for breaking the rules of the tampering period and team officials are "nervous" about a potential investigation.

VICTIM: The entire league

PUNISHED? PENDING...

PUNISHMENT: Not punished yet, but currently under investigation. That facts are pretty clear, though. The Dolphins have announced a contract with a player before he became a free agent and before the league's legal tampering period.

Tampergate (1970: Shula)
TEAM: The Miami Dolphins

SEVERITY:scale

SUMMARY: The Dolphins committed three counts of tampering in order to hire "Double-Dealing" Don Shula* as their coach in 1970. DD Don was still the coach of the Baltimore Colts at the end of the 1969 season, when then-Miami owner Joe Robbie approached him and signed Shula to a contract. You can't do that. That's cheating. * Cheater

VICTIM: Indianapolis Colts (The Baltimore Colts moved to Indianapolis in 1984)

PUNISHED? Yes

PUNISHMENT: As punishment for this cheating incident, the Baltimore Colts were awarded the Dolphin's 1971 first round draft pick. As well, the Dolphins 1972 Perfect Season* was permanently tainted and unofficially appended with an asterisks to indicate that the team cheated.

Fun fact about the Dolphins' Perfect Season*: in 1972 the Dolphins drew what most experts consider one of the NFL's softest schedules ever. Their opponents had a winning percentage of just .357 (!) and they faced only 2 teams who ended the season over .500 while feasting on 9 teams who ended under .500. * Cheated

Hypocrite.
 
Let's cut through the bullshit....

There is one and only one issue that should be on the table here....

Did McNally deflate the balls in the restroom? Period, end of sentence.

Here's the smoke that folks are getting confused over....

Even if Brady instructed the staff to submit footballs at 11.5, heck, let's say he instructed them to be submitted at 10.0. That is NOT AGAINST A RULE. Quarterbacks submit "out of spec" balls all the time. Why, because it is the REFEREE'S JOB to adjust them. So even if he instructed them, SO WHAT?

The crux of the matter, is if you think McNally deflated the balls during that minute and a half, then the Pats are filthy cheaters. If you think this was about a guy relieving his bladder during the confusion of a delayed start, then all this is BULLSHIT.

Personally, I'd say put McNally on a lie-detector, after the set up questions to establish a baseline, ask him that one question. What happened in the can?

End of story.


1000% THIS! McNally is the one that should be punished, if he actually deflated the footballs. Regardless whether or not Brady told him to let air out or not, ultimately it was McNally's decision whether or not to follow through and break the rules.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
According to Exponent data and research Refs inflated Patriots balls higher than legal during half time:
End of Game Patriots balls:
KlxT30.png


End of Game Colts balls:
pZUi7B.png


Assuming the Refs during halftime inflated all Patriots balls to the max limit of 13.5 on both gauges (the over-pressure is worse if they only used the logo gauge) the post game evidence shows they over-pressurized the Patriots Balls beyond the legal limit.

Looking at the post game data, and ignoring the high values on the left (as these are almost certainly taken with the "logo gauge"): none of the Colts balls have normalized their pressure since being brought in from the field. They are still on the transient curve to normalization. The range of normalization still needed is .5 - .9. Applying that range to the same ranked Patriots footballs shows more probable than not the balls were over inflated at halftime.

OR:
The field conditions during the first half and all the other variables affecting pressure dropped the on field pressure below the assumed floor dictated by Gay-Lussac using 67 degree to 48 degree. This would mean the Patriots start PSI was 12.5
OR;
The measurement tools used, personal skill, and minor temp variables make the NFL incapable of securing a normalized pressure within .5psi of a given goal.
 
I dunno, Hawg, I think if he was accepting that Brady is dirty the message would have been different. How do you come out and condemn the report so harshly if you truly accept its conclusions? If that was the case I would expect a more toned down message, and for him to put the screws on Brady to fess up (remember the anecdote from Spygate? Kraft: Did we do it? BB: Yup. Kraft: Did it help us win? BB: No. Kraft: Well then, you're a real schmuck) I'm just not buying that one.

I'm going to assume you mean Kraft and not me condemning the report. Either way, the answer is the same. Because were are still viewing this through the lens of an american courtroom where proof is required. The Wells Report did a thoroughly bad job of meeting the standard of PROOF, but much like a person falling out of a tree and landing on his feet accidentally gave us a very plausible explanation for why the balls were lower than the legal limit -- despite the piss-poor attempt at proving it scientifically. If a person can accept that Brady worked out a deal with JJ McJas, then the pieces of the puzzle fit. The subtext of the goofy texts and the post-DFgate actions of those parties give me enough to draw my own conclusions and I believe Bob Kraft shares at least some of them. Bottom line: he realizes he has to accept it, but he doesn't have to like the larger picture here and, unsurprisingly, had some harsh criticism.


And frankly, it doesn't pass the smell test that Brady would seriously want his balls to be .5 lbs less than minimum that badly, especially when A) he and BB found out that he can't even tell the difference between balls with 1 lb. of different inflation, and B) BB telling us that since Spygate (implied), the organization as a whole makes a conscious effort to avoid doing anything that could in any way be interpreted as coming close to breaking any rules - and Brady was already the major piece of the organisation at that time that he is today, I'm sure he was part of all the internal stuff that went on over how to address and move on from that. The ONLY situation that makes any sense to me that would involve any malfeasance is if he got pissed that the refs don't inflate his balls the way they're asked, so he asked for his guy to correct the issue if it arises, after the refs are done.

I think that whatever occurred during the October Jets game where the balls allegedly ended up "like ****en balloons" at 16 PSI or thereabouts might be a much bigger deal than is recognized.

Why, if visiting teams can submit the balls to their (legal) specs did they end up so far over? Did the refs fvck with us and add way more air than necessary? Could somebody else, perhaps a Jets employee, do so? I don't think it's impossible. Regardless of the reason I believe Brady was truly pissed off (despite very fine stats in that game 103.5 QBR, 3 TDs, O Ints) because his preparation is unquestioned and he did not like something unexpected messing with his hard work.

I find it plausible that Brady may have suspected foul play and he decided that he would do what he had to do to make sure it didn't occur again. He would do what he had to do. I find that entirely understandable, and this may not have even been the only time he dealt with something of the kind, but that his method for doing so ALSO required something illegal put both he and the team in harm's way. He found a way to ensure that he took matters into his own hands to avoid ending up with a rugby ball at a critical juncture of the game and that is where the story went south.

The actual final inflation figure is necessarily not very precise because of time constraints involved in correcting a potential "over-inflated" ball and his underling may have been forced to guess at it to an extent with the key element being to make Tom happy and not to enforce a silly-ass rule that doesn't matter a tinker's damn in any competitive sense.

In my opinion Tom felt he was getting fvcked over and got angry. He may have been right, but the rest of it is on him. In my opinion.
 
I'm going to assume you mean Kraft and not me condemning the report.


I think he meant Brady's agent. :)


Folks, let's remember, we're all on the same team here. We all want what's fair and best for the Pats, during this..... low-tech lynching....

Peace to all :)
 
If psi is so important to the NFL, why don't the refs carry a gauges on them, and whenever new balls are introduced into a game, they can check them before they are put into play?

The responsibility of conformity to the psi rule is on the refs, not before the game, but during the game.
 
I certainly hope that no one here painted you that way. I don't recall seeing any replies that would do so. And I hope you didn't interpret my own replies to you in that manner.

Not really. I'm not responding to any individual here, but it's pretty clear to me that we have a full-blown controversy and the fan base is roughly forming into groups that are pro-Tom or anti-Tom and questions about loyalty are thrown into the mix. It's a complex situation with a lot of uncertainty. Certainly, nothing is 100% clear.

I just wanted to make my opinion heard regardless of that sort of rhetoric.

At this point I believe if you aren't pro-Tom then you are going to take some flak because of it even if the conclusion you have drawn seems perfectly logical to you. It's an emotional topic with most everybody and will likely remain so for quite some time, so I chose to mention it.

I don't want to be in the minority on this one, but I feel like I have to be.

Nothing personal, Bid. I find the whole thing fascinating along with feeling totally disturbed by all of it.
 
Here's a small reality check for you. This isn't only about the balls. This is also about all the other times the Patriots have made the rest of the league their beeyitches.

Fixed your post.

:coffee:
 
Not really. I'm not responding to any individual here, but it's pretty clear to me that we have a full-blown controversy and the fan base is roughly forming into groups that are pro-Tom or anti-Tom and questions about loyalty are thrown into the mix. It's a complex situation with a lot of uncertainty. Certainly, nothing is 100% clear.

I just wanted to make my opinion heard regardless of that sort of rhetoric.

At this point I believe if you aren't pro-Tom then you are going to take some flak because of it even if the conclusion you have drawn seems perfectly logical to you. It's an emotional topic with most everybody and will likely remain so for quite some time, so I chose to mention it.

I don't want to be in the minority on this one, but I feel like I have to be.

Nothing personal, Bid. I find the whole thing fascinating along with feeling totally disturbed by all of it.

Great post, Hawg. Everyone is going to feel one way or another, but that's no reason that we can't be civil about it.

Of course my situation is reversed since I'm not in New England. Outside of Foxboro being Pro-Tom might as well make you a leper, but I'm giving it the old college try and wearing my Pats gear when I go out.

As for how I feel....this is a tough one. I'm just going to sit back and watch and see how it plays out. In my personal opinion, the infraction (if there was one) in no way justifies the amount of attention it is getting, but it is what it is.
 
Not really. I'm not responding to any individual here, but it's pretty clear to me that we have a full-blown controversy and the fan base is roughly forming into groups that are pro-Tom or anti-Tom and questions about loyalty are thrown into the mix. It's a complex situation with a lot of uncertainty. Certainly, nothing is 100% clear.

I just wanted to make my opinion heard regardless of that sort of rhetoric.

At this point I believe if you aren't pro-Tom then you are going to take some flak because of it even if the conclusion you have drawn seems perfectly logical to you. It's an emotional topic with most everybody and will likely remain so for quite some time, so I chose to mention it.

I don't want to be in the minority on this one, but I feel like I have to be.

Nothing personal, Bid. I find the whole thing fascinating along with feeling totally disturbed by all of it.
Here are my thoughts on the topic. From the get go, I thought the supposed crime was a load of crap. If it were true, it's nothing more than J walking. Once I heard that Goodell was going to have another of the BS reports done, I got even more disgusted.

(as an aside, I've thought most of these sports scandal reports were nothing more than bullshit, and I certainly thought that about the Freeh report. A few of you may remember me posting something to that effect in the past. They pass off opinions, and then try to act going forward like they are proof of something)

Now that we seen the Wells report, it hasn't proven a thing (other than Brady was POed about the Jets game having a ball at 16 PSI. We don't really know if he told the people to let air out after refs did their usual shitty job of checking and certifying them.

FWIW, I know that it's perfectly legal for companies to do bad things to employees without proof. In fact, it's perfect legal to fire someone without cause, or even telling them why. That doesn't mean I have to like or respect bullshit just because it's legal. I'm an innocent until proven guilty, type of person. I know that not everyone is that way, and I don't hold it against someone for having different philosophies.
 
It's awesome to see people like him and Clay Matthews voicing up their views on how stupid this whole thing is.

I think we can all agree that this is a stupid cluster-fvck regardless of whether Wells' conclusions have any merit or not.

How this plays out down the road is a big unknown, but it is important that people understand the big picture-- what the league under Roger is really doing here and even if he "gets away with it" and the Pats end up having no choice but to accept his mandated punishment --- it's important to note that nothing happens in a vacuum. There is a groundswell of opposition to the direction the league is choosing. The bad decisions that have been made under his watch. It doesn't look good for us now, but it could ultimately be viewed differently by a LOT of people.

I've referred to Roger as "President Snow" from time-to-time and if he isn't careful this little lesson in corporal punishment could actually end up being the catalyst to a revolt-- much like the storyline in the Hunger Games from which I drew that reference.

Brady is getting framed (the organization really) here and it would be very ironic if it ends up blowing up in Roger's face. If Brady, in effect, becomes the MockingJay and level-headed people treat his suspension as a call to wake up and do something.

Try to imagine for a moment the Pats fighting to overcome a suspension of Brady for multiple games. Struggling to get to the top despite Roger's finger on the scale. Things could get very, very interesting this season and the Pats are likely to not decide to roll over and play dead for him.

Maybe that's a little premature, but that's what I've been thinking about.
 
My father came to this conclusion today, let all the other 31 teams play at what ever PSI they want, but make as punishment Brady play to the regulation PSI for the season and see where it all stacks up in the end.
 
I'm going to assume you mean Kraft and not me condemning the report.

Yes, you interpreted that as I intended ;)

Folks, let's remember, we're all on the same team here. We all want what's fair and best for the Pats, during this..... low-tech lynching....

Peace to all :)

Actually, I think this has been a remarkable civil discussion overall. Doesn't hurt that we mostly are in agreement. Anyone that would think Hawg is a "traitor" needs to have their head examined. And I can certainly see how there is room to extrapolate the belief that Brady was complicit in wrongdoing from what was reported - the problem is that extrapolation is, in fact, necessary. I'm just not buying it yet.

As far as Kraft goes, I still think his response doesn't make sense if he is accepting the results of the report, but to be fair, we see politicians equivocate all the time when the realize they can't abandon a strong stance they head without looking like a "flip-flopper", but need to pivot over to a new stance based on which way the wind is blowing. So I see the following possibilities:
A) Kraft is, in fact, playing the politician here
B) He had to release a statement quickly before having time come to a full understanding of the report, and without the benefit of seeing those members of the public that have been able to analyze the claims in a certain way, and he may reevaluate his stance at some point.
C) He intends to roll over for the league and he sees the NFL shield and his personal investment in Goodell as more important than the NE shield and the honor of "his guys".

As TommyD and others have pointed out, he will have another chance to react and update his stance when the punishment is handed down. At that point we will also see what Brady and Yee have up their sleeves. Until that time, I will hope that B) is the correct scenario and give the benefit of the doubt until then.

I think we can all agree that this is a stupid cluster-fvck regardless of whether Wells' conclusions have any merit or not.

How this plays out down the road is a big unknown, but it is important that people understand the big picture-- what the league under Roger is really doing here and even if he "gets away with it" and the Pats end up having no choice but to accept his mandated punishment --- it's important to note that nothing happens in a vacuum. There is a groundswell of opposition to the direction the league is choosing. The bad decisions that have been made under his watch. It doesn't look good for us now, but it could ultimately be viewed differently by a LOT of people.

I've referred to Roger as "President Snow" from time-to-time and if he isn't careful this little lesson in corporal punishment could actually end up being the catalyst to a revolt-- much like the storyline in the Hunger Games from which I drew that reference.

Brady is getting framed (the organization really) here and it would be very ironic if it ends up blowing up in Roger's face. If Brady, in effect, becomes the MockingJay and level-headed people treat his suspension as a call to wake up and do something.

Try to imagine for a moment the Pats fighting to overcome a suspension of Brady for multiple games. Struggling to get to the top despite Roger's finger on the scale. Things could get very, very interesting this season and the Pats are likely to not decide to roll over and play dead for him.

Maybe that's a little premature, but that's what I've been thinking about.

This has occured to me as well. I think Cuban's criticism of the NFL is spot-on, and I keep wondering if the NFL has finally peaked. It sure is showing signs of a business that has completely filled all of it's available growth space and now needs to resort to extreme measures to maintain that growth that the fatcats can't live without. However, at this point I think it's probobaly just wishful thinking on my part, we'll see.
 
I guess the one thing that is most frustrating is the lack of closure. If there was a firm guilty verdict from the report we could at least pick up the pieces and move on, but I rather fear that there will never be an unequivocal guilty/not guilty. And the obvious problem of the league itself and some of the other owners conspiring against one of its members is very problematic and I'm not sure I see a path where that gets resolved.

Question: are there some owners that are upset with Kraft for stepping in and getting the CBA negotiation done, when they weren't ready to "cave" yet?
 
Back
Top