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Southpaw said:
This trade is absolutely terrible if all they get is a second round pick. Last year for Roy Williams the Lions got a 1st, a 3rd and a 6th. For DeAngelo Hall the Falcons got a 2nd and a 5th. In 07 Chris Chambers alone got a second round pick. To get Wes Welker the pats had to give up a second and a 7th.

I would think Matt Cassel ALONE could have gotten a second round pick. Why package these guys together??? Atleast at this point, this deal just looks horrid. And Vrabel is only 33. Yes he's slowed down a bit, but compared to some of the other LBs the pats have kept around he still is quite young. I bet he still has atleast another 3 productive seasons in him. Right now this deal just sucks, plain and simple.
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Do yourself a BIG favor and read the posts on the various threads here about Vrabel's extra curricular activites and such.
 
After overeacting this morning, and now after reading all the latest info and posts in PP, I will sit back and let the powers that be do their thing. I have no where near the knowledge that most of you PP people have. I revert back to the postion I took last season after Brady's injury.......cautiously optimistic. I'm learning a lot today, thx. :) popcorn
 
Southpaw said:
This trade is absolutely terrible if all they get is a second round pick. Last year for Roy Williams the Lions got a 1st, a 3rd and a 6th. For DeAngelo Hall the Falcons got a 2nd and a 5th. In 07 Chris Chambers alone got a second round pick. To get Wes Welker the pats had to give up a second and a 7th.

I would think Matt Cassel ALONE could have gotten a second round pick. Why package these guys together??? Atleast at this point, this deal just looks horrid. And Vrabel is only 33. Yes he's slowed down a bit, but compared to some of the other LBs the pats have kept around he still is quite young. I bet he still has atleast another 3 productive seasons in him. Right now this deal just sucks, plain and simple.
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Yup.
 
If this is the deal, it absolutely sucks. Cassel, on his own, should've easily netted the 34th pick in the draft. Cassel and Vrabel for the #3 would have been a fair deal, MAYBE.

Sh*t, Vrabel by himself probably could've netted a 3rd or 4th.

Pioli bent Belichick over the table on this one, if it's true.

Clearing cap space? WTF? They wouldn't need the #^&%ing cap space if they hadn't franchised Cassel to begin with. If this is how it ends up, I would've preferred they just keep Vrabel and let Cassel walk.
 
JD10367 said:
If this is the deal, it absolutely sucks. Cassel, on his own, should've easily netted the 34th pick in the draft. Cassel and Vrabel for the #3 would have been a fair deal, MAYBE.

Sh*t, Vrabel by himself probably could've netted a 3rd or 4th.

Pioli bent Belichick over the table on this one, if it's true.

Clearing cap space? WTF? They wouldn't need the #^&%ing cap space if they hadn't franchised Cassel to begin with. If this is how it ends up, I would've preferred they just keep Vrabel and let Cassel walk.
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Man you are so negative.ROFL
 
JD10367 said:
If this is the deal, it absolutely sucks. Cassel, on his own, should've easily netted the 34th pick in the draft. Cassel and Vrabel for the #3 would have been a fair deal, MAYBE.

Sh*t, Vrabel by himself probably could've netted a 3rd or 4th.

Pioli bent Belichick over the table on this one, if it's true.

Clearing cap space? WTF? They wouldn't need the #^&%ing cap space if they hadn't franchised Cassel to begin with. If this is how it ends up, I would've preferred they just keep Vrabel and let Cassel walk.
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nope vrabel was a 5th round pick tops....damaged goods, still needs surgery on the injured shoulder
 
I don't get it, let Cassel walk and get nothing, trade Vravel for a 3 or 4???:blink:


Trading them both for a # 2 is a better deal:shrug:
 
Pioli haz pics of BB & Sharon Shenocca & Eric Mangini in same roomz/at same timez

there iz no other ezplaination :archive:
 
JD10367 said:
If this is the deal, it absolutely sucks. Cassel, on his own, should've easily netted the 34th pick in the draft. Cassel and Vrabel for the #3 would have been a fair deal, MAYBE.

Sh*t, Vrabel by himself probably could've netted a 3rd or 4th.

Pioli bent Belichick over the table on this one, if it's true.

Clearing cap space? WTF? They wouldn't need the #^&%ing cap space if they hadn't franchised Cassel to begin with. If this is how it ends up, I would've preferred they just keep Vrabel and let Cassel walk.
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Wait....what?

Let Cassel walk and keep a 33 year old OLB or get the #34 pick in a deep draft? How on earth do you get from one to the other? That doesn't even make a little sense. And the reason Cassel didn't bring what Schaub, Roy Williams et. al. did is because he was franchised and needed to be resigned. Those other players were on smaller contracts, which were included in the trade, and didn't need to be signed to top free agent deals as part of the process. Plus Matt had a say in this as well, for all we know he told BB to go F*ck himself when he mentioned Detroit or Tampa Bay and swore he wouldn't sign any extension, thus reducing BB's trading power.

Don't get this twisted, we HAD to franchise Matty to get any value out of him, and that in and of itself reduced his value to other teams. There was no other play, and in the end, we did the best we could with the teams out there and the players involved. The Vrabel part sucks, I would also have liked to see a conditional 3rd to 5th setup, but if it's all we could get, then it's all we could get. Sleeve apparently would have mortgaged this whole season by keeping Cassel...I mean, nobody in the league believed he would do that, it's cap suicide, and you're back to square one next year...where is the logic in that?????
 
Grumpy_Bottom said:
Wait....what?

Let Cassel walk and keep a 33 year old OLB or get the #34 pick in a deep draft? How on earth do you get from one to the other?
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It was posted that, if Cassel walked, we'd get a 3rd rounder in compensation. So, in essence, they gave away Mike Vrabel to turn it from a late 3rd compensatory (#65 overall) to a high 2nd (#34).

Cassel alone was worth more than a 2nd rounder. Bottom line, case closed, I ain't #$^&ing sugarcoating this sh*t pill with, "Oh, let's drink the Kool Aid, in Belichick we trust!". It was a stupid #$^&ing deal, and they got hosed. A paper-thin linebacking corps, not enough back for Cassel, and a high 2nd rounder. Oh, goodie! Last year's 2? Terrence "bad wrists" Wheatley. They didn't have one in '07, but in '06? Chad Jackson. No 2 in '05, but in '04... Marquise Hill who, R.I.P. dude, didn't stand out. 2003? Eugene Wilson and Bethel Johnson.

Forgive me if I don't do cartwheels of joy.
 
They aren't done yet, I will withold judgement for now.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
PatrietteAz said:
Do yourself a BIG favor and read the posts on the various threads here about Vrabel's extra curricular activites and such.
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I'm not seeing them, but take Vrabel out of it. This would be a bad deal just if it was Cassel. The pats gave up more for Wes Welker than what KC gave up. There are SO few good QBs in this league, I'm amazed they got so little.
 
Southpaw said:
I'm not seeing them, but take Vrabel out of it. This would be a bad deal just if it was Cassel. The pats gave up more for Wes Welker than what KC gave up. There are SO few good QBs in this league, I'm amazed they got so little.
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Its all over the threads about his NFLPA doings but..the I don't get how people think BB just got lazy all of the sudden and took below what he could get in THIS market THIS year for Cassel. Just because we all talked ourselves into thinking he would get us some magic beans and the talking heads thought so too doesn't make it the real market condition at the time the Pats management felt the time was right to pull the trigger.
 
PatrietteAz said:
Its all over the threads about his NFLPA doings but..the I don't get how people think BB just got lazy all of the sudden and took below what he could get in THIS market THIS year for Cassel. Just because we all talked ourselves into thinking he would get us some magic beans and the talking heads thought so too doesn't make it the real market condition at the time the Pats management felt the time was right to pull the trigger.
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NFLPA doings? What does that mean? You have problems with him being a player rep or something? You said extra curricular activities earlier like he's having some off the field issues. I haven't read anything in various reports about any concerns about Vrabel's character.

And I was speaking on this market. Several months ago the cowboys traded for Roy Williams(who only scored 2 TDs last season) and gave up a 1st, a 3rd and 6th round pick for a WR who's had one 1,000 yard season in his career. Not to mention, the market has always remained strong for capable starting QBs in this league. Nothing has changed about that.

I never said BB got lazy or whatever. And I certainly didn't expect "magic beans" or some insane haul of picks for Cassel. But when in the past year, several WRs and CBs can pull in better value in the trade market than a good QB, it's kinda worrisome. It just seems like they were quick to pull the trigger on this. If the value wasn't there, why not wait? There was no reason to do this in the first few days of free agency. It just seems like a salary dump and a move to eliminate any drama entering camp regarding the starting QB position. We all know about Bill's past history in those instances.
 
The Pats have 4 picks on day 1 of the draft now. No one else does......
 
Southpaw said:
NFLPA doings? What does that mean? You have problems with him being a player rep or something? You said extra curricular activities earlier like he's having some off the field issues. I haven't read anything in various reports about any concerns about Vrabel's character.

And I was speaking on this market. Several months ago the cowboys traded for Roy Williams(who only scored 2 TDs last season) and gave up a 1st, a 3rd and 6th round pick for a WR who's had one 1,000 yard season in his career. Not to mention, the market has always remained strong for capable starting QBs in this league. Nothing has changed about that.

I never said BB got lazy or whatever. And I certainly didn't expect "magic beans" or some insane haul of picks for Cassel. But when in the past year, several WRs and CBs can pull in better value in the trade market than a good QB, it's kinda worrisome. It just seems like they were quick to pull the trigger on this. If the value wasn't there, why not wait? There was no reason to do this in the first few days of free agency. It just seems like a salary dump and a move to eliminate any drama entering camp regarding the starting QB position. We all know about Bill's past history in those instances.
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Roy Williams is not worth a 1st,3rd, sixth. Jerry Jones way over paid for him because he wanted a big name WR to play next to TO. That trade was the only thing the lions did right last year.
 
Forget Vrabel, he probably would have been a candidate to get cut this summer. Ask yourself if someone told you last summer that the Patriots would receive a second round pick (a high second rounder) for Matt Cassel, would you be happy?

This is a steal. Four picks in the first 58 selections so far and $15mm-$20mm in cap space left to spend.
 
Southpaw said:
NFLPA doings? What does that mean? You have problems with him being a player rep or something? You said extra curricular activities earlier like he's having some off the field issues. I haven't read anything in various reports about any concerns about Vrabel's character.

And I was speaking on this market. Several months ago the cowboys traded for Roy Williams(who only scored 2 TDs last season) and gave up a 1st, a 3rd and 6th round pick for a WR who's had one 1,000 yard season in his career. Not to mention, the market has always remained strong for capable starting QBs in this league. Nothing has changed about that.

I never said BB got lazy or whatever. And I certainly didn't expect "magic beans" or some insane haul of picks for Cassel. But when in the past year, several WRs and CBs can pull in better value in the trade market than a good QB, it's kinda worrisome. It just seems like they were quick to pull the trigger on this. If the value wasn't there, why not wait? There was no reason to do this in the first few days of free agency. It just seems like a salary dump and a move to eliminate any drama entering camp regarding the starting QB position. We all know about Bill's past history in those instances.
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NO. *I* don't have a problem with it but as some others more eloquently wrote here the PATS seem to not want to have to risk whatever THEY perceive to be possible issues. You intimated the rest on your own.

This year is not last year. People's sudden distrust of BB like he didn't do the best he could for the team is plain BS to ME. Or do you work for an NFL organization and I missed that? I don't find a early second rounder out of line at all EVEN with Vrabel included since there seem to be several factors that lead to him being part of the deal.

People built up Cassel's value in their minds over the course of the year because he played so well and because it IS hard to find a winning QB in the league. The market for players is what it is and you don't know why this happened NOW but I bet those involved do.
 
PatrietteAz said:
NO. *I* don't have a problem with it but as some others more eloquently wrote here the PATS seem to not want to have to risk whatever THEY perceive to be possible issues. You intimated the rest on your own.

This year is not last year. People's sudden distrust of BB like he didn't do the best he could for the team is plain BS to ME. Or do you work for an NFL organization and I missed that? I don't find a early second rounder out of line at all EVEN with Vrabel included since there seem to be several factors that lead to him being part of the deal.

People built up Cassel's value in their minds over the course of the year because he played so well and because it IS hard to find a winning QB in the league. The market for players is what it is and you don't know why this happened NOW but I bet those involved do.
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I guess we thought we could sucker someone into over paying for are QB this year. The way the lions did with Dallas.
 
I have to say, I'm disappointed, but I also understand there is a lot yet to happen, but on its face, I thought they'd get more. I may have built up Cassel's value in my mind beyond what it really was, but tonight, I'm disappointed.
 
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