Week 5 Gamete thread: New Orleans Saints at Patriots 1 p.m. Eastern

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Roberto71 said:
Oh my god...

It's official. Mac is broken. This is unbelievable..
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The entire offense is broken. Mac is a big part of it but he's getting no help from his receivers or his OL. There's no stepping up in the pocket, the receivers can't shed coverage and there are no holes for our RBs. It's become abysmal and the worst part of this for me is that it seems like no one playing on offense gives a f*ck. Motions, they're going through motions

ViperGTS said:
QB1 baby.
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At this point I'd take QB2
Roberto71 said:
We're tanking for Caleb!!
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There's a lot of football left to play - could be Caleb, could be someone else in the top 3.

Roberto71 said:
You have to feel sorry for all concerned here. I mean nobody on that team, the coaching staff wanted this. They work hard, try their best but it has just fallen apart and sometimes these things happen. Mac's career is dissolving in real time and he must be in a living hell at the moment, I can't imagine what it's like when he's alone and trying to reconcile all this.
Pro sport can truly be a brutal place.
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I'd love to hear the conversation between BB and RKK this week. Talk about falling apart.

Hawg73 said:
You folks seem to be missing the point.

I, and many others, do not believe Bill would ever tank a season to get a special player even if he turned out to be something like Mahomes. The
oft-stated reason is that he would never not try, even though he has tanked individual games here and there for reasons known only to him
or for playoff advantage.

The conclusion I have reached is that it, tanking, is happening now before our very eyes. We were all wrong and Bill knows that he needs that guy
to build the 3rd dynasty.

Man, I am I relieved because for a while there I thought we were really trying but simply sucked that bad. It's time to celebrate!!!!

There is a new plan in town and I guess I'm firmly behind it. As long as the golden QB awaits because I've given up the ghost on Mac. He just
simply wasn't as good as I thought he would be, but it is what it is.

How many bad passes is he throwing when he does have enough time?

The correct answer is way too many. It didn't work out and I accept that fact now. It was a hard day, but next year now
has a promise that didn't exist before kickoff today. All we need to do is keep losing.
Click to expand...

Whether we're tanking on purpose or by circumstance, we have a lot of players on this team besides Mac who don't have enough winning talent or heart to be here next year.
Picking top 5 would help rebuild quickly especially considering all our cap space to make moves for superior veterans at key positions no matter who is actually making the picks
 
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chevss454 said:
Whether we're tanking on purpose or by circumstance, we have a lot of players on this team besides Mac who don't have enough winning talent or heart to be here next year.
Picking top 5 would help rebuild quickly especially considering all our cap space to make moves for superior veterans at key positions no matter who is actually making the picks
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It's a mixed bag, at least. There are guys that many thought would have breakout seasons, such as Uche and Onwenu and both are MIA. Barmore had
one great game against a weak Jets OL and has otherwise been invisible.

There is hardly a vet on the team that has played well. I got about a half dozen in mind. Tops.

I feel empty right now. This season has been a crushing disappointment and I don't really care if we are tanking on purpose or not,
but it doesn't really matter. I was just being hyperbolic. We simply can't win a game with this Offense. I'm coming to grips with the old, familiar refrain:

We are the worst team in football and it's not really that close.

There will be plenty of time for roster building concepts over the next 7 months or so. Right now I'm thinking that it might
actually be over here for Bill. Time to clean house and find a completely new direction/philosophy. It's hard for me to watch myself
typing that sentence. I always thought it was insane to feel that way, but rock bottom makes me want to take a new look at everything
because I've been wrong about a lot of shit lately. Maybe we should blow it all up.
 
Hawg73 said:
It's a mixed bag, at least. There are guys that many thought would have breakout seasons, such as Uche and Onwenu and both are MIA. Barmore had
one great game against a weak Jets OL and has otherwise been invisible.

There is hardly a vet on the team that has played well. I got about a half dozen in mind. Tops.

I feel empty right now. This season has been a crushing disappointment and I don't really care if we are tanking on purpose or not,
but it doesn't really matter. I was just being hyperbolic. We simply can't win a game with this Offense. I'm coming to grips with the old, familiar refrain:

We are the worst team in football and it's not really that close.

There will be plenty of time for roster building concepts over the next 7 months or so. Right now I'm thinking that it might
actually be over here for Bill. Time to clean house and find a completely new direction/philosophy. It's hard for me to watch myself
typing that sentence. I always thought it was insane to feel that way, but rock bottom makes me want to take a new look at everything
because I've been wrong about a lot of shit lately. Maybe we should blow it all up.
Click to expand...
I wonder what it would have been like if there was an internet message board back in 1990's when we were 1-15. Then were 2-14. We would have rejoiced when we made it to 10-6.
I do remember those days and I'm quite sure you do. Just trying to add a little prospective.
 
Hawg73 said:
It's a mixed bag, at least. There are guys that many thought would have breakout seasons, such as Uche and Onwenu and both are MIA. Barmore had
one great game against a weak Jets OL and has otherwise been invisible.

There is hardly a vet on the team that has played well. I got about a half dozen in mind. Tops.

I feel empty right now. This season has been a crushing disappointment and I don't really care if we are tanking on purpose or not,
but it doesn't really matter. I was just being hyperbolic. We simply can't win a game with this Offense. I'm coming to grips with the old, familiar refrain:

We are the worst team in football and it's not really that close.

There will be plenty of time for roster building concepts over the next 7 months or so. Right now I'm thinking that it might
actually be over here for Bill. Time to clean house and find a completely new direction/philosophy. It's hard for me to watch myself
typing that sentence. I always thought it was insane to feel that way, but rock bottom makes me want to take a new look at everything
because I've been wrong about a lot of shit lately. Maybe we should blow it all up.
Click to expand...

I've had the same revelations as you after the last few weeks. After last week's game a popular refrain by people was not over react to one game.
Well, what will those people say after today's embarrassment?

I know this...I've seen enough to say that if BB turns this team around it will be by far the best coaching job of his career.
I don't think he has the player or coaching talent to pull off that feat. I don't see it happening.

At the same time, I don't think this is all BB's fault. Some things definitely are, ie. the OL and no WR1, but no one could have anticipated all the crucial injuries this year. Shit happened. RKK is a smart guy and he realizes all this so he'll be fair in his decisions regarding BB who he knows has earned the right to determine his fate. Being on the inside RKK knows what is going on with BB so surely he has enough info to make the right decision going forward.

Last week I wrote this "Note to RKK" and I stand by what I wrote there.
Note to Bob Kraft...
If that abysmal offensive performance yesterday wasn't the low point of the year & a badly needed wake-up call for every Patriots player and coach then you're in deep shit.
I know it was a wake-up call for me in that each player and coach, especially on offense, has to prove his worth to keep my fan loyalty. No more freeloaders going through the motions.
We have some good players but they're being let down by poor performing team mates and coaches around them. Your team needs the strongest leadership you can afford.
No more grading on a curve. No more excuses. Any player or coach not playing or coaching winning football or not buying in to winning football should be marked for an upgrade.
Everyone should be held accountable. Be fair, don't over react, but be critical where necessary. This is your opportunity to begin bringing greatness back to Patriots football.
Chev
 
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ParanoidPatriot said:
I wonder what it would have been like if there was an internet message board back in 1990's when we were 1-15. Then were 2-14. We would have rejoiced when we made it to 10-6.
I do remember those days and I'm quite sure you do. Just trying to add a little prospective.
Click to expand...

Back then we knew the owners had no money to buy a winner. We were astounded the team was as good as it was! That's why we cheered them. Every win was an over achievement.
 
The frustrating thing is I'm not sure Bill is the guy to turn this around. He continually passes up free agents who could help us because he doesn't want to spend the money (or RKK doesn't). He doesn't get playmakers. Mac is pretty bad, but he has very few weapons. The OL stinks. That's all on Bill. He's the GM in addition to the HC.

I joke about him trading down in the draft but even if we ended up with a top pick next year, would he keep it or trade it away? He can't pick wide receivers to save his life (or job).

I love what Bill has done in the past. He's a great coach but business as usual isn't translating to success. You need playmakers like Edelman, Troy Brown, Tedy Bruschi, Ty Law, etc. Sure, you'd love to have a Brady again, but his kind doesn't come around often. You really need playmakers on offense because most QBs can't elevate JAGs like Brady and elite QBs can.

I perceive Bill as being pretty insular. He's used to ruling the roost but changes are needed. If he doesn't make them, he'll be gone. His replacement will probably stink but what's going on isn't working. Dallas could be tolerated as a fluke. Being worse at home the next week is inexcusable.
 
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chevss454 said:
The entire offense is broken. Mac is a big part of it but he's getting no help from his receivers or his OL. There's no stepping up in the pocket, the receivers can't shed coverage and there are no holes for our RBs. It's become abysmal and the worst part of this for me is that it seems like no one playing on offense gives a f*ck. Motions, they're going through motions



At this point I'd take QB2


There's a lot of football left to play - could be Caleb, could be someone else in the top 3.



I'd love to hear the conversation between BB and RKK this week. Talk about falling apart.



Whether we're tanking on purpose or by circumstance, we have a lot of players on this team besides Mac who don't have enough winning talent or heart to be here next year.
Picking top 5 would help rebuild quickly especially considering all our cap space to make moves for superior veterans at key positions no matter who is actually making the picks
Click to expand...

BB needs to do better on the personnel front moving forward.
 
BradyGirl said:
The frustrating thing is I'm not sure Bill is the guy to turn this around. He continually passes up free agents who could help us because he doesn't want to spend the money (or RKK doesn't). He doesn't get playmakers. Mac is pretty bad, but he he has very few weapons. The OL stinks. That's all on Bill. He's the GM in addition to the HC.

I joke about him trading down in the draft but even if we ended up with a top pick next year, would he keep it or trade it away? He can't pick wide receivers to save his life (or job).

I love what Bill has done in the past. He's a great coach but business as usual isn't translating to success. You need playmakers like Edelman, Troy Brown, Tedy Bruschi, Ty Law, etc. Sure, you'd love to have a Brady again, but his kind doesn't come around often. You really need playmakers on offense because most QBs can't elevate JAGs like Brady and elite QBs can.

I perceive Bill as being pretty insular. He's used to ruling the roost but changes are needed. If he doesn't make them, he'll be gone. His replacement will probably stink but what's going on isn't working. Dallas could be tolerated as a fluke. Being worse at home the next week is inexcusable.
Click to expand...
If a complete tear down and rebuild is coming (and all signs point that direction) a 70+ year old coach and GM ain’t the guy to lead it.
I’d say if Belichick won’t relinquish personnel duties, he need to be gone.
 
Hawg73 said:
You folks seem to be missing the point.

I, and many others, do not believe Bill would ever tank a season to get a special player even if he turned out to be something like Mahomes. The
oft-stated reason is that he would never not try, even though he has tanked individual games here and there for reasons known only to him
or for playoff advantage.

The conclusion I have reached is that it, tanking, is happening now before our very eyes. We were all wrong and Bill knows that he needs that guy
to build the 3rd dynasty.

Man, I am I relieved because for a while there I thought we were really trying but simply sucked that bad. It's time to celebrate!!!!

There is a new plan in town and I guess I'm firmly behind it. As long as the golden QB awaits because I've given up the ghost on Mac. He just
simply wasn't as good as I thought he would be, but it is what it is.

How many bad passes is he throwing when he does have enough time?

The correct answer is way too many. It didn't work out and I accept that fact now. It was a hard day, but next year now
has a promise that didn't exist before kickoff today. All we need to do is keep losing.
Click to expand...
This is the part I can't get on board with. I don't disagree that we're seeing a tank, but I'm not sure it's a) intentional or b) Bill Belichick is going to be the HC of the rebuild. And really, this is Rod Rust quality we're getting out there. At least the scrubs under McPherson tried hard every week.

I'm actually slightly surprised Belichick didn't just retire after this game - I'm not sure he survives the season, and if Bob Kraft won't pull the trigger, let's see if Jonathan gets more vocal, and Bob gets moved to the backburner here.
 
I listened to the Patriots post-game show, and the pundits there were unanimous that there is no way Bill is tanking or will tank for a QB. Their take is that Bill would never do that as he does not value QBs.
 
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