For us...a thread in which we can ask Bob archeology questions

[Claremonster]

He had another wonderful bit about the great pyramid at Giza, specifically the angled portion that goes up to the burial chamber in the center of the pyramid.

He made some comment about the holes in the side of the walls along that passage, and what they signified.

They were for a machine that traveled at "unusual speed".

Of course, he never bothered to explain just what the "usual" speed any machine inside a pyramid should travel, but we were assured that this one was "unusual".

Weird, I'd have thought they were places for torches so people could see while going through the passageway. His idea makes much more sense.

 

[Claremonster]

I have read several books and seen a few shows regarding the "discovery" of the Americas.

Has the archaeological community come to accept the notion that Columbus did not actually discover the Americas? Particularly given that there are maps showing Peurto Rico, Cuba, and Florida that predate Columbus? And Columbus's journal records his expectations of where he would arrive, and that he visited colonies in the Caribbean on his way to discover America?

Or that tobacco has been found in Egyptians mummies, a product native to North America?

There is loads of other anecdotal evidence, but I know for a fact that there are ancient maps showing North America on them predating Columbus...so I don't see how that can be disputed.

Second question...

Very near my cabin in Maine was an archaeological dig that turned up artifacts of "Clovis Man". I understand that is very significant, but I never really grasped what is so important about Clovis Man.

Perhaps you could explain it?

The site in question is known as the "Vail Site".....my recollection was it was around 1980 or so....but I could be off.

People, and when I say "People", I mean those who have a more scientific view of things, believe that Clovis Man (the dudes what made really cool spear points) were the first inhabitants of the Americas. Their culture morphed over time into the Folsom Man (no, not Johnny Cash) and then into various other cultures as well over time.

Allegedly. Sources say.

 

[SteelerFan87]

I know that this was directed at Bob, but I wanted to throw my 2 cents in about Santorini.

From what I understand, Santorini was an outpost of the Minoans. The Minoans were advanced, yes, but plumbing? Not too sure about that. I'd have to take a look.

Thera is a fascinating place, though, and the underwater archaeology that's still taking place there is helping us to learn more and more about the island before its eruption.

When I went to Knossos in Crete they said they did have plumbing.

 

[tehrick67]

Bob, have you evah been in a Turkish prision?

 

[3 Point Stan]

Have you ever used your occupation as an *in* to bang an in-her-prime Kate Capshaw?

 

[Baron Samedi]

Have you ever used your occupation as an *in* to bang an in-her-prime Kate Capshaw?

It's called an "archaeological dig"....cause....you know how crazy those archaeology college groupies are...

 

[bob]

I have read several books and seen a few shows regarding the "discovery" of the Americas.

Has the archaeological community come to accept the notion that Columbus did not actually discover the Americas? Particularly given that there are maps showing Peurto Rico, Cuba, and Florida that predate Columbus? And Columbus's journal records his expectations of where he would arrive, and that he visited colonies in the Caribbean on his way to discover America?

Or that tobacco has been found in Egyptians mummies, a product native to North America?

There is loads of other anecdotal evidence, but I know for a fact that there are ancient maps showing North America on them predating Columbus...so I don't see how that can be disputed.

Second question...

Very near my cabin in Maine was an archaeological dig that turned up artifacts of "Clovis Man". I understand that is very significant, but I never really grasped what is so important about Clovis Man.

Perhaps you could explain it?

The site in question is known as the "Vail Site".....my recollection was it was around 1980 or so....but I could be off.

Columbus is traditionally held to be the first "white man" to find the Americas- namely, the first European. In archaeological circles, it is pretty much a given, at this point, that Columbus was far from the first European to visit this continent. The trouble is how this will trickle down to the grade school textbook level in a clear and concise statement, because there is so little evidence to clearly establish just who was the first "European" to visit this continent. For lack of a better alternative, Columbus is going to hold that distinction for a little longer.

The Clovis culture (named after the site of the first find, in Clovis, NM) had traditionally been held to be the first human inhabitants of the New World (Americas). And this was proposed from the first few Clovis digs done in the 1930's, of which the Clovis spear point is the traditional artifact found, and this somehow became "fact" for one reason or another, and so any dates older than 10,000 BC is immediately a subject of controversy (although not so much anymore).

If I remember correctly there have been finds in South Carolina, Pennsylvania, and particularly Oregon that date human remains long before that figure, which is to say that there are implicit suggestions that humans were already here as far back as at least 15,000 BC, and possibly up to 30,000 BC, thanks to new technological advances made in DNA analysis.

As with the idea of just who was the first "white man," the evidence at this point is far from being clear or concise.

 

[dchester]

A hat with a wide brim protects your ears and the back of your neck from severe sunburn, especially when you are near the equator.

I can't help noticing that while you answered everyone else's questions, you completely ignored my questions about the true origin of the pyramids and the Gov't cover up of the Stargate system.

(not that I'm holding a grudge or anything)




In any case, my next question is about hats. Is there a particular brand/model that you recommend for hot weather? The problem I run into is that while most wide brimmed hats will keep the sun away from my delicate skin, they still can make my head sweat. How do you deal with this problem? Also, how much do you recommend spending on a hat? I usually look for stuff on sale at the Village Hat Shop.

http://www.villagehatshop.com/sales.html

 

[Annihilus]

In any case, my next question is about hats. Is there a particular brand/model that you recommend for hot weather? The problem I run into is that while most wide brimmed hats will keep the sun away from my delicate skin, they still can make my head sweat. How do you deal with this problem? Also, how much do you recommend spending on a hat? I usually look for stuff on sale at the Village Hat Shop.

http://www.villagehatshop.com/sales.html

I can answer this one for bob.

You're not supposed to wear hats in the tanning salon (and technically, tanning beds don't count as 'hot weather').

Bob, do you have any particularly favorite theories of Easter Island?

 

[Claremonster]

I can answer this one for bob.

You're not supposed to wear hats in the tanning salon (and technically, tanning beds don't count as 'hot weather').

Bob, do you have any particularly favorite theories of Easter Island?

Although I know this will probably get DChester all excited and stuff, but I should mention that the Easter Island statue thingamajigs used to wear hats. Big red ones.

 

[bob]

Or that tobacco has been found in Egyptians mummies, a product native to North America?

Interesting that you should bring this up- tobacco flecks were found on some mummies that had previously been examined, the results of amateur archeologists smoking right over the mummies, when they were first found in the 1800's! You can imagine how unthinkable this would be today- considering how dry those mummies are; they would probably have gone up in a flash and bang if a spark had fell. Anyway this was the preliminary conclusion so the premise was discarded.

However, Dr. Balabanova who is a forsenic toxologist, an expert in forsenic analysis did a series of tests in the early 80's that confirmed that there were traces of nicotine in those mummies- she did another round of tests in the 90's, this time, gas chromatography tests were included, that revealed traces of nicotine, cocaine, and hashish in seven mummies (inside their intestines). This was quite upsetting as you can imagine- as the mummies were authentic, and the tests are proven method in forsenic analysis which is basic police crime investigation work.

So the end result is not only that the Ancient Egyptians smoked tobacco, but they also probably chewed coca leaves (the most likely method of ingestion since the modern method of refinement into cocaine powder most probably did not exist) in addition to smoking hashish, and probably opium. As tobacco is native to North America, so is the coca leaf native to South America, so you are talking about not only trade/exploration to North America, but also to South America.

Personally I have always been of the belief that trade, even during the development of early Ancient Egypt, was international. As far back as 1,000 BC, there is evidence that the North Star was used in celestial navigation on the high seas, by the Phoenicians. And by evidence, I mean linguistic evidence, which does not rule out that the use of the North Star isn't any older than that only because material evidence didn't exist circa 1,000-2,000 BC, and even as far back as 5,000 BC.

As a side note, I'd like to point out that this scarcely is an endorsement of drug use just because Ancient Egyptians ingested them. These drugs were manufactured as part of trade, by tradesmen in the Ancient World- they were commodities. Money from the production of those items went into the "pockets" of socially-productive tradesmen, people who worked for a living. Today, the purchase of those same drugs is putting money in the pockets of violent and dangerous people who think nothing of killing women and children, as we can see, for instance, in present-day Mexico.

 

[dchester]

I can answer this one for bob.

You're not supposed to wear hats in the tanning salon (and technically, tanning beds don't count as 'hot weather').

Well, if I'm getting all sweaty, then it's hot to me. It's not like there's air conditioning in those things, and anyways, I like hats.

 

[bob]

I can't help noticing that while you answered everyone else's questions, you completely ignored my questions about the true origin of the pyramids and the Gov't cover up of the Stargate system.

(not that I'm holding a grudge or anything)




In any case, my next question is about hats. Is there a particular brand/model that you recommend for hot weather? The problem I run into is that while most wide brimmed hats will keep the sun away from my delicate skin, they still can make my head sweat. How do you deal with this problem? Also, how much do you recommend spending on a hat? I usually look for stuff on sale at the Village Hat Shop.

http://www.villagehatshop.com/sales.html

I apologize if I appear to be ignoring your questions- I just am not very knowledgeable about "new age" theories, things pertaining to extra-terrestrial or extra-dimensional ideas, so to speak.

I suppose any hat works- I am partial to khaki and straw hats of a light color- white where possible, to keep the heat off. If you are sweating, it may be because of a wool hat.

 

[Den-in-NH]

Bob, do you have any particularly favorite theories of Easter Island?

Good question. I too am curious as to your thoughts, Bob.

+1 for this really cool thread, btw.

 

[SteelerFan87]

I can answer this one for bob.

You're not supposed to wear hats in the tanning salon (and technically, tanning beds don't count as 'hot weather').

Bob, do you have any particularly favorite theories of Easter Island?

SF87 is stunned. OMG

 

[Baron Samedi]

Personally I have always been of the belief that trade, even during the development of early Ancient Egypt, was international. As far back as 1,000 BC, there is evidence that the North Star was used in celestial navigation on the high seas, by the Phoenicians. And by evidence, I mean linguistic evidence, which does not rule out that the use of the North Star isn't any older than that only because material evidence didn't exist circa 1,000-2,000 BC, and even as far back as 5,000 BC.

It is my personal belief that contemporary humans do, always ahve, and always will grossly underestimate humans of the past.

It is my personal belief that the moment human beings anywhere discovered oceans, they immediately set about figuring out how to cross them.

I think that in many ways, Western civilization has done a great disservice to our sciences, via deeply ingrained bias.

The Polynesian seafarers are a great example. Their existence alone shows that there is no reason to think that Asia and the Americas did not engage in trade for many centuries, and perhaps thousands of years, before Columbus.

The presence of American native flora in Egyptian mummies essentially proves that oceans were highways, not obstacles, thousands of years ago.

Thanks for the great contributions to the board. I'm one of those folks that are interested in everything, and like to take advantage of people who know more than me...in a good way, of course.

 

[Flagg the Wanderer]

I think at a bare minimum the Chinese, the Egyptians, the Vikings, and likely the Cretians/Minoans got to North and South America.

Which religion is it that claims that the ancient Hebrews made it as well?

I totally agree with Baron about the dirty predjudice of what I call temporalism. People are smart, and they had a lot less distractions from actually engaging and solving problems.

One example I remember seeing is that there are some that claim that the Egyptians had DC current and electric lights. Apparently there were hyroglyphics of pottery with lines coming out to something that looked like an oblong lightbulb with light streaming out. We know that they had copper-lined vased/containers, and someone posited that there were chemicals available to them that when combined and placed in a copper container, the reactions would indeed create an electrical current.

I have no idea about the science of this, but it struck me as both plausible (on a small scale, sort of an experimental novelty I'd imagine) and fascinating. Bob, have you heard of that, and do you have any opinion on it?
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[AnOldTroll]

I suppose any hat works- I am partial to khaki and straw hats of a light color- white where possible, to keep the heat off. If you are sweating, it may be because of a wool hat.

I googled pictures of archeologists. Several wear plaid. I find that interesting.

carry on.

 

[O_P_T]

Weird, I'd have thought they were places for torches so people could see while going through the passageway. His idea makes much more sense.

Well if your looking for a "logical" explanation, I assumed they were holes that held cross beams for scaffolding used during construction.

The floor is at a pretty steep angle in that passage, IIRC, so you couldn't easily build something like that simply sitting it on the floor.

 

[O_P_T]

If I remember correctly there have been finds in South Carolina, Pennsylvania, and particularly Oregon that date human remains long before that figure, which is to say that there are implicit suggestions that humans were already here as far back as at least 15,000 BC, and possibly up to 30,000 BC, thanks to new technological advances made in DNA analysis.

As with the idea of just who was the first "white man," the evidence at this point is far from being clear or concise.

I recall seeing a program where they discussed some spear points and other tools that were discovered on the East Coast that were not shaped the same as the typical Clovis style. The program said that they were similar to tools from people who lived in Western Europe well before Clovis.

It was suggested that they migrated here along the ice pack in boats and died out due to the climate changes associated with the Younger Dryas (if I'm remembering the program correctly).

I also recall that based on DNA and linguistic analysis, there were at least three separate major migrations to the Americas. I believe there have been efforts to date these migrations based on that analysis, but I'm not sure how accurate such estimates are.