How does Mac Jones compare with other QB's?

[Grogan]

The defense needs to be rebuilt both LBs and DBs. If Bill let's Jackson walk then the rebuild is a couple of years out, maybe 3. Most critical is hitting on this year's draft like last year. Forget the top WR, I expect first 3 picks to be all defense. Have to start there.

Not sure I agree with that exactly. It's hard to argue with Jacksons production, but at the same time he's not a shut down CB and it's difficult to justify spending that kind of money on him. I view it very similar to when Butler wanted #1 money and Bill went with Gilmore for more than Butler eventually got. The only problem is the doesn't appear to be Gilmore type player available.

 

[Mazz22]

Not sure I agree with that exactly. It's hard to argue with Jacksons production, but at the same time he's not a shut down CB and it's difficult to justify spending that kind of money on him. I view it very similar to when Butler wanted #1 money and Bill went with Gilmore for more than Butler got. The only problem is the doesn't appear to be Gilmore type player available.

Yeah. You may be right but without a top corner, it is impossible to compete in this league. I have had a change of heart in this regard and think Bill should beef up the front 7 with a focus on getting another rusher opposite Judon and then as much speed as he can get at LB. If he goes that route then you draft your secondary knowing they won't have to cover long with the beefed up front. I think it will be less expensive in the long run as top corners cost as much as top WRs. Just spit balling but that is where I am currently at as FA approaches.

 

[Darth Despot]

I really don't disagree with anything you say here, while I won't include myself with the, "Tommites" as you call them, I however didn't agree with Bill moving on from Tom when he did. That said it's done and over, but from my stand point Bill now has to be accountable for the decision to re-build and the state of that rebuild. Unlike you I don't think it's plain to see that better days ahead, there are more questions to be answered about Mac Jones as a starting NFL QB, and the team in general.

This is roughly the equivalent of saying "I'm not a Christian, but I have taken Jesus Christ as my personal lord and savior.

My opinions on this issue, Tom left because Tom wanted to leave. I can't entirely blame him, 20 years with the same cranky demanding boss gets old, even if you are successful. Ultimately Tom wasn't staying here because the team was in need of a turnover and he didn't want to spend his golden football years as part of a rebuild that would be completed around the same time he was finished.

It's not big mean Bill booted his ass, because if that were true it would have happened in 2017.

Mac is Mac. I don't expect him to be Tom because no one is going to be Tom.

Allen might be better, but since he's not available that comparison is academic.

Right now Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Prescott and maybe Murray (EDIT Forgot Burrow) are the best young QBs in the game. And comparing Mac to them is also academic because none of them were available. Were I a Dolphins fan, it would be fair to compare Tua and Herbert (and get really riled up about that).

The incredible irony of this whole thing is I recall having the exact same arguments with Bledsonians 20 years ago. Time really is a flat circle.

 

[Grogan]

This is roughly the equivalent of saying "I'm not a Christian, but I have taken Jesus Christ as my personal lord and savior.

My opinions on this issue, Tom left because Tom wanted to leave. I can't entirely blame him, 20 years with the same cranky demanding boss gets old, even if you are successful. Ultimately Tom wasn't staying here because the team was in need of a turnover and he didn't want to spend his golden football years as part of a rebuild that would be completed around the same time he was finished.

It's not big mean Bill booted his ass, because if that were true it would have happened in 2017.

Mac is Mac. I don't expect him to be Tom because no one is going to be Tom.

Allen might be better, but since he's not available that comparison is academic.

Right now Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Prescott and maybe Murray (EDIT Forgot Burrow) are the best young QBs in the game. And comparing Mac to them is also academic because none of them were available. Were I a Dolphins fan, it would be fair to compare Tua and Herbert (and get really riled up about that).

The incredible irony of this whole thing is I recall having the exact same arguments with Bledsonians 20 years ago. Time really is a flat circle.

I'm not sure how you get to this? The very fact of the matter is that those QB's you mentioned are exactly who Mac will be compared with both now and in the future. Who cares if they weren't available to us, like it or not they are ultimately what Mac is going to have to face in his career so not discussing that is like saying we may as well not discuss anything Patriots related. The fact that the exact same arguments surrounded Bledsoe back in the day shouldn't be ironic in the least, no one knew how that would turn out either? I really don't get your point at all, if this isn't a worthy topic regarding the Patriots future then nothing is.

 

[BostonTim]

Time really is a flat circle.

Like that Early Early map of the flat earth? The one that says way out in the unexplored edges, "Here be dragons"?

 

[Darth Despot]

Comparing him to a bunch of guys who we never had the opportunity to draft is a waste of time unless your trying to stir a pot.

The general argument seems to be "Mac isn't that great" and all these guys are. None of them play for or could have played for my team. I am going to root for the guy we have. Lets assume 5 years from now Mac is the 10th best QB in the league, is the 15th pick worth it. I'd say yes. Your poll includes 3 first overall selections and only one guy who was selected outside the top 10 and he did win a league MVP. There all supposed to be better.

I don't think Mac is anywhere near his ceiling, unless the assumption is he's unable to work out, adjust his throwing motion, learn more about being an NFL QB and have the game slow down with experience.

 

[Mazz22]

I do wonder if Bill will make a legit run at either Wilson or Rodgers. My preference would be Wilson just because of age and less fanfare, but it would be something if the team could land an elite QB this off-season. That would put the Pats in contention with the Chiefs, Bills, Bengals, etc.

 

[SkiptoMyLou]

I do wonder if Bill will make a legit run at either Wilson or Rodgers. My preference would be Wilson just because of age and less fanfare, but it would be something if the team could land an elite QB this off-season. That would put the Pats in contention with the Chiefs, Bills, Bengals, etc.

Yeah, let's shelf the 11th rated QB who's playing on a rookie contract and replace him for a QB that will take 25-30% of the cap plus whatever the cost is to acquire him. That definitely sounds like something Belichick would do...

 

[Mazz22]

Yeah, let's shelf the 11th rated QB who's playing on a rookie contract and replace him for a QB that will take 25-30% of the cap plus whatever the cost is to acquire him. That definitely sounds like something Belichick would do...

Bill was willing to do that last year for Stafford.

 

[SkiptoMyLou]

Bill was willing to do that last year for Stafford.

Last year, prior to the draft, QB was a question mark. This year... not so much.

 

[HSanders]

I do wonder if Bill will make a legit run at either Wilson or Rodgers. My preference would be Wilson just because of age and less fanfare, but it would be something if the team could land an elite QB this off-season. That would put the Pats in contention with the Chiefs, Bills, Bengals, etc.

what the whatty what????

 

[1970Dart]

why compare a rookie to 3+ year starters?
comparing them as rookies is more fair.
allen was raw, and didn't have a lot of good games, mahomes didn't beat out alex smith for the starting job.
mac, with limited starts as a college qb beat out a veteran, albeit a not good one, and helped his team get into the playoffs.

If you compare Mac to most QB's their rookie seasons, Mac played better than most with "a less talented" receiving corps. And I agree 100%, great comparisons.

 

[Darth Despot]

what the whatty what????

 

[1970Dart]

Yeah. You may be right but without a top corner, it is impossible to compete in this league. I have had a change of heart in this regard and think Bill should beef up the front 7 with a focus on getting another rusher opposite Judon and then as much speed as he can get at LB. If he goes that route then you draft your secondary knowing they won't have to cover long with the beefed up front. I think it will be less expensive in the long run as top corners cost as much as top WRs. Just spit balling but that is where I am currently at as FA approaches.

A solid front 7 can make up for a lack of a true CB1 for the most part.

LB, we need guys who can seal the edge and actually stop the run. We got killed with our run defense. We will need (imo) a solid ILB to fill the void of Hightower. Bentley is ok, he isn't great though. We also need another big guy next to Barmore, having two big strong DT's will help us against the run. Not to mention if we can control LOS, guys like Allen would be less apt to take off running.

 

[Grogan]

Comparing him to a bunch of guys who we never had the opportunity to draft is a waste of time unless your trying to stir a pot.

The general argument seems to be "Mac isn't that great" and all these guys are. None of them play for or could have played for my team. I am going to root for the guy we have. Lets assume 5 years from now Mac is the 10th best QB in the league, is the 15th pick worth it. I'd say yes. Your poll includes 3 first overall selections and only one guy who was selected outside the top 10 and he did win a league MVP. There all supposed to be better.

I don't think Mac is anywhere near his ceiling, unless the assumption is he's unable to work out, adjust his throwing motion, learn more about being an NFL QB and have the game slow down with experience.

Not at all, you do understand that no matter what Mac ends up becoming as a QB, good or bad or someplace in between, those are the guys he'll likely be facing in his entire Patriots career? How the hell is discussing that, "trying to stir the pot"? Tell us what else is more relevant that that?

 

[AkPatsFan]

So has anyone actually voted in this poll, doesn't look like it to me.

 

[Darth Despot]

Look, the wording makes it clear you have an agenda.

"Which QB has the lowest potential?

Among 3 #1 picks, a former MVP, two other successful guys with multiple seasons under their belts and a rookie.

Puh-leze

 

[chevss454]

Not at all, you do understand that no matter what Mac ends up becoming as a QB, good or bad or someplace in between, those are the guys he'll likely be facing in his entire Patriots career? How the hell is discussing that, "trying to stir the pot"? Tell us what else is more relevant that that?

Luckily Mac will be playing against their defenses and not the QBs.
Mac performed better in his rookie year than Allen & Lawrence did in their rookie years. It's not close.
Allen and LJackson have big cap hits coming soon. That should help.
Allen seems destined to be a great QB.
Burrows and Herbert are headed that way, too.

Mac has enough mentally to be there right there with them in a year or 2.
Imo, Mac will improve a lot.
Imo, he will win more than his share of games against their teams.

 

[crawhammer]

So has anyone actually voted in this poll, doesn't look like it to me.

Yes some people are voting and apparently they're unaware Lamar Jackson is a recent NFL MVP and a lead RB as well as a QB.

Allen seems destined to be a great QB.
Burrows and Herbert are headed that way, too.

Mac has enough mentally to be there right there with them in a year or 2.

Josh Allen is already a great QB who is going to terrorize Belichick until he retires. Allen's biggest problem is he plays for a loser organization. The Music City Miracle, wide right, 13 seconds... 13!... I mean how many times can one franchise take a massive kick in the balls? The sleepless nights for their fans, the poor bastards.

Herbert and Burrows are going to be exceptional for the next decade at least. Mahomes too, obviously. And again people are sleeping on Jackson's ability.

The Patriots are facing an ominous future with all of these outstanding quarterbacks in the AFC unless Jones turns out to be on their level. A great running game and a supposedly good-to-great defense isn't going to get it done anymore. Look at the Titans with Tannehill, they have no shot at winning a Super Bowl with him. I'm not sure what their cap situation is but they would be smart to take a hard run at one of these veteran QB's possibly hitting the open market. They stupidly passed up on Brady.

Based on what I'm seeing from these playoff teams, and especially with the play from their quarterbacks, the Patriots are a million miles away from a conference championship game. It's going to take a brilliant draft and a major jump from Jones to even get out of the wild card round next season. Forget the division next season, it's not happening. The Bills are too far ahead right now.

I do wonder if Bill will make a legit run at either Wilson or Rodgers.

Rodgers wouldn't signup for playing home games in Foxboro at this point of his career. He's looking for a dome or warm weather. He's also a loser.

Wilson couldn't fit into the Patriots' cap issues.

 

[Hawg73]

The incredible irony of this whole thing is I recall having the exact same arguments with Bledsonians 20 years ago. Time really is a flat circle.

Great post, but I will respond to the last part here.

I started to respond to a different post here earier today and never finished the post, but I made pretty much the same point.

It is similar to that situation. Drew had the big arm and Brady had the noodle back then, but few remember that now. Or choose to. If
you're a fine enough football player you can wipe out people's preconceived notions of what you are and can become and Brady proved that over time.

This is what I wrote:

There were plenty of Patriots fans that believed that benching Drew Bledsoe was the dumbest thing that ever happened to the franchise
and that was hard reality for many for a brief period. Of course, things improved and the Drew Believers were eradicated, converted or the hardcore folks were driven into
the shadows. Brady couldn't throw that sweet out route like Drew until he matured physically and constantly worked on perfecting his mechanics for several more years.

Also ironically, Bill Belichick took the same kind of shit over benching Drew for Brady that he took for "letting Tom get away" or however one characterizes that
situation and drafting Mac. We know the first move was right, but the second one is still in progress.

Nothing would make me happier than Mac Jones making a lot of folks forget they ever doubted him.