Merged - Patriots Coaching Staff Changes

[chevss454]

What about BB's son Steve. He's been a special assistant for 4 years now. Presumably, a special assistant is learning multiple positions and at some point will need to be promoted. Is he ready to take on a bigger responsibility?

Replacements being mentioned by the media include Brian Daboll, 40, Steven B., 26, and Brian Ferentz, 32, Kirk's son. All have ties to the Pats.

---------- Post added at 11:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 AM ----------

Must be some blame on Gugs for getting fired, though the injuries did in the O-line like every other position this year.

Gugs had the misfortune to be the guy who replaced Scar. As the old saying goes, you want to be the guy who replaces the guy who replaced the guy everyone respected.

Worst O-line in years tells you something about this firing. Tom would never talk about "protection problems" in public like Manning*, but I bet behind closed doors that Irish temper boiled up! Maybe BB seeing his star quarterback's bruises after Sunday convinced him that it was time for Gugs to go!

The decision had been made several weeks ago from what I've read and Gugs suspected it.

 

[RodgerGoodell]

Either you post on pro football talk or you copying pasted that exact same thing from their comments section.

Either way, swing and a miss

I post there

 

[Hawg73]

Must be some blame on Gugs for getting fired, though the injuries did in the O-line like every other position this year.

Gugs had the misfortune to be the guy who replaced Scar. As the old saying goes, you want to be the guy who replaces the guy who replaced the guy everyone respected.

Worst O-line in years tells you something about this firing. Tom would never talk about "protection problems" in public like Manning*, but I bet behind closed doors that Irish temper boiled up! Maybe BB seeing his star quarterback's bruises after Sunday convinced him that it was time for Gugs to go!

He freaked out at the line earlier in the season during a performance a lot like the one we saw Sunday. Of course, I couldn't hear what was being said and it could possibly have been encouragement, but he looked PISSED. Bigtime. I think at some point he decided that he was just going to have to take his lumps because he had no choice, but you just know that privately he must have been furious. All that work, study and preparation and it blows up because his line was in shambles.

As an aside, I thought Brady was quite rattled and made a ton of rushed/poor throws and mistakes. I considered calling him out for it, but upon a second watching I decided that nobody could keep their cool after being hit like that so blaming him would be wrong. Did he hear footsteps at times when there weren't any? Absolutely. Did his accuracy suffer? Sure. Was that Brady's fault? No way.

He's a human being. Nobody could have done any better standing behind that sieve.

 

[gomezcat]

He freaked out at the line earlier in the season during a performance a lot like the one we saw Sunday. Of course, I couldn't hear what was being said and it could possibly have been encouragement, but he looked PISSED. Bigtime. I think at some point he decided that he was just going to have to take his lumps because he had no choice, but you just know that privately he must have been furious. All that work, study and preparation and it blows up because his line was in shambles.

As an aside, I thought Brady was quite rattled and made a ton of rushed/poor throws and mistakes. I considered calling him out for it, but upon a second watching I decided that nobody could keep their cool after being hit like that so blaming him would be wrong. Did he hear footsteps at times when there weren't any? Absolutely. Did his accuracy suffer? Sure. Was that Brady's fault? No way.

He's a human being. Nobody could have done any better standing behind that sieve.

I agree. No blame attached to Brady when he was rightly expecting to get decked on every play. He also had zero outlet from the running game... The scary part about Sunday was that no one had a good game and I lost count of how many times two or three Broncos guys beat their guy.

 

[NFL-Know]

I wish I knew more specifics.

He was a good enough coach to get us to a Super Bowl win last year, but obviously the line play wasn't close to being acceptable.

I'd LOVE to know what really happened.

I'll tell you one thing: The constant chinese fire drill didn't help the situation.

Case in point: Shaq Mason played almost entirely at LG the whole season. So, RG Tre Jackson goes down with a knee a few weeks ago and instead of sticking Kline at RG, which he has played (I used the term loosely) fairly often this season and leave Mason alone, they switch him over to RG and put Kline at LG for the last two games.

Doesn't logic indicate that we get weaker at two spots when we make an unnecessary double switch like this? I know there are explanations for why we do this sort of thing, but there was zero coordination and I haven't seen a Pats OL get hosed up on simple stunts the way the 2015 edition did in a very long time.

I'm glad that we're making a move, because it can't possibly get any worse than what we just witnessed.

I agree with most of your points above. However, when you witness Vollmer, Cannon, and Flemming all getting consistently beaten by Ware, Miller, and Wolfe, then I submit that ALL these players should be ushered out the same door as DeGuglielmo was sent out. Clearly none of these Pats Olineman did their job and I do not even care if they are not regular starters because they also suck as backups.

Of course, this would mean Pats, rightfully so, doing some major FA and draft activity with OL and again I will stress that this is more than warranted after TFB taking the worst pounding in his career.

 

[Patriots71]

He freaked out at the line earlier in the season during a performance a lot like the one we saw Sunday. Of course, I couldn't hear what was being said and it could possibly have been encouragement, but he looked PISSED. Bigtime. I think at some point he decided that he was just going to have to take his lumps because he had no choice, but you just know that privately he must have been furious. All that work, study and preparation and it blows up because his line was in shambles.

As an aside, I thought Brady was quite rattled and made a ton of rushed/poor throws and mistakes. I considered calling him out for it, but upon a second watching I decided that nobody could keep their cool after being hit like that so blaming him would be wrong. Did he hear footsteps at times when there weren't any? Absolutely. Did his accuracy suffer? Sure. Was that Brady's fault? No way.

He's a human being. Nobody could have done any better standing behind that sieve.

I have never even heard of a Qb getting hit 23 times in a game, usually they get hurt before that. I think some of the issue was the oline, but you have to protect a bad line, you do that with max protect, a back shipping, keeping a TE in, etc. It did not seem like they did any of that. NOt having a run game hurt to. I remember years ago when the pass rush came so quick from the outside, you have a quick hit up the middle, but we really did not have that option this year. It was just a bad combination of things that all happened at the same time. I have to be honest, the fact we had a chance to tie the game late showed me more of Brady's heart than anything. Most would have either went out of the game or flat out just quit. I guess in the end I was not happy with the playcalling with what Denver was doing, it was a recipe for hits, but maybe we did not have a choice.

 

[Hawg73]

I agree with most of your points above. However, when you witness Vollmer, Cannon, and Flemming all getting consistently beaten by Ware, Miller, and Wolfe, then I submit that ALL these players should be ushered out the same door as DeGuglielmo was sent out. Clearly none of these Pats Olineman did their job and I do not even care if they are not regular starters because they also suck as backups.

Of course, this would mean Pats, rightfully so, doing some major FA and draft activity with OL and again I will stress that this is more than warranted after TFB taking the worst pounding in his career.

Well, Wolfe was torturing Kline for most of the afternoon, so I'm not sure if that supports your point, but Fleming appears helpless as anything but an extra TE and I don't see any upside to him, so, they've got to cut their losses. I've seen zero improvement. The opposite, if anything. Cannon occasionally looks good, but he's been consistently beaten to the edge and has been awful way too often this season. I think it would be best to find somebody else to develop and let him go, but they don't ask for my opinion. Might depend on his contract.

I haven't seen the stats lately, but last time I checked Vollmer had given up the most sacks and pressures of anybody on the line, at least partly because he played more snaps than the other guys and was playing at a different position. Seabass has been a very steady, plus-caliber RT for his whole career here when healthy and he will be back next year and presumably better back at RT. I think he's the best RT in Patriots history and if anyone has another candidate I'd like to know who that is. Still, I can't be sure if they think he's on the downside of his career. Maybe. He seems to have lost some agility, for sure.

It should be pointed out that we tend to blame guys for individual/athletic failures when they get whipped by a rusher and that happened numerous times Sunday, but there were tons of examples of Brady taking hits all year long because somebody didn't pick up the right guy or otherwise missed an assignment and Gugs gets fired almost immediately after the season.

Coincidence? I think not. I've been hearing that the Broncos picked up a "tell" Stork has when he is about to snap and were able to get a great jump. Plus, they weren't worried about the run. Is that on Stork or would, say, Scar have figured that out and fixed the issue? My point is there are a lot of things that go into successful Oline play.

I think we have the building blocks here for a much better OL next year, but we're going to need the right coach and to invest in at least two new guys for next season. I think we have two guards we can count on and will be able to find a center from the three guys we have. I'm guessing we need two tackles- a rookie and a vet. I'm sure it will be a major focal point, so I'm not going to spend the next 8 months fretting over what happened. They'll get it fixed.

 

[Smudger]

I've been hearing that the Broncos picked up a "tell" Stork has when he is about to snap and were able to get a great jump. Plus, they weren't worried about the run. Is that on Stork or would, say, Scar have figured that out and fixed the issue?

That would help explain how the DEs were able to continually be crossing the LOS as or fractionally after the ball was snapped.

I heard a few times that being on the road hurts the OL play as it means they are slower off the ball, but it doesn't explain how Miller, Ware et al were able to time it up so well.

The combination of a tell and the noise might explain how Miller in particular was often rounding the edge before the tackle had taken his hand off the ground.

 

[bideau]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/GregDeGug">@GregDeGug</a> A real screw job. belichik's arrogant act is getting really f-ing old. HC coaching failures lost that game. End of story...</p>— Mark Poirier (@bertram25) <a href="https://twitter.com/bertram25/status/692068006248202240">January 26, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Roberto71]

We need a nasty SOB in the line as well. Somebody needed to give Miller a few sly digs on Sunday. The Denver D Line were bragging before the game and even after it one of them, undisclosed, stated to a reporter that they wanted to humiliate Brady, said he tried to lie on Tom for a few seconds after one sack and tried to rub his nuts on his face....

That's where you need a nasty O Lineman to step in and restore order. I like the kid Eric Fisher of KC, he really took a nice shot at JJ Watt in the Wild Card game after one play.

 

[Hawg73]

We need a nasty SOB in the line as well. Somebody needed to give Miller a few sly digs on Sunday. The Denver D Line were bragging before the game and even after it one of them, undisclosed, stated to a reporter that they wanted to humiliate Brady, said he tried to lie on Tom for a few seconds after one sack and tried to rub his nuts on his face....

That's where you need a nasty O Lineman to step in and restore order. I like the kid Eric Fisher of KC, he really took a nice shot at JJ Watt in the Wild Card game after one play.

I felt like there were several times during the season where something like that was called for. For instance, in the Miami game both Ndamukong Suh and Olivier Vernon deserved a punch in the nuts after cheap-shotting the franchise and nobody lifted a finger or even seemed to notice anything amiss. Like letting Brady get mauled is business as usual. I thought that was a tell-tale sign that something was a little off. You wouldn't catch Logan Mankins twiddling his thumbs after something like that.

BTW, if you want Eric Fisher then the KC fans would be glad to work something out. High pick with a big contract who thus far hasn't justified either, but at least he isn't afraid of tangling with a tough guy.

 

[HSanders]

Wow. Did not even think of that. How long was his contract? Maybe it's up and they've just decided it wasn't working?

Everyone probably already knows this by now, but i heard tonight on total access that his contract was up after this year anyway. so it's a "Pees firing".

 

[mikiemo83]

I agree with most of your points above. However, when you witness Vollmer, Cannon, and Flemming all getting consistently beaten by Ware, Miller, and Wolfe, then I submit that ALL these players should be ushered out the same door as DeGuglielmo was sent out. Clearly none of these Pats Olineman did their job and I do not even care if they are not regular starters because they also suck as backups.

Of course, this would mean Pats, rightfully so, doing some major FA and draft activity with OL and again I will stress that this is more than warranted after TFB taking the worst pounding in his career.

Volmer was hurt. That may be is why he sucks.

 

[RodgerGoodell]

Logan Mankins made the pro bowl

 

[Peachhead]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/GregDeGug">@GregDeGug</a> A real screw job. belichik's arrogant act is getting really f-ing old. HC coaching failures lost that game. End of story...</p>— Mark Poirier (@bertram25) <a href="https://twitter.com/bertram25/status/692068006248202240">January 26, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wow, way to stay classy there Elmo. GFY.

After the buttfumble he threw the Jets front office under the bus, saying they drafted Ducasse over his objections and "made" Elmo play him. Now of course I hate the Jets and have no respect for their front office. But that story sounds like BS.

In the last couple days I've seen posts in various places from "insiders" that claim Elmo said he had absolutely no say in who was drafted/brought in, traded or even who played where. "It was all forced on him".

Bullshit! That doesn't sound like BB at all. It's sounding more and more like Elmo was a narcissistic little bitch that had a chickenshit excuse for everything.

/rant

PS - What was that "2 rings" comment all about? He only got one with the Pats. (And was more just along for the ride than a major contributor.)

 

[HSanders]

funniesr part is that mark guy in the tweet is a pats fan. i went to his twitter page and it's full of constant idiotic namecalling. he's obviously stuck in third grade somewhere.

 

[Patriots-Lifer]

Obviously?

If you do get worn out then what people do is rest for a while and then get back into the fray. Andrews had a minor injury to deal with but once he went out he barely had a chance to crack a sweat for the rest of the way. To me, that is not consistent with a guy that is simply tired.

It was clear to me that he is significantly undersized and tended to struggle against the mooses. He needs another offseason to bulk up, but he didn't make a whole lot of mental mistakes and was able to slow guys down effectively.

That alone should have given him at least rotational snaps, but he went from every down to nothing.

He showed all the signs of a rookie hitting the wall. I am not saying there were not other factors. He isn't much smaller than many centers in the NFL. Brad Meester (6’3”, 292 lbs), Ryan Wendell (6’2”, 300 lbs), Rodney Hudson (6’2”, 299 lbs), Ryan Kalil (6’2”, 300 lbs), Chris Myers (6’4”, 286 lbs), Dominic Raiola (6'1", 295 lbs), Jason Kelce (6’3”, 295 lbs), just to point out a few. Yes he will benefit a lot with another year in the strength and conditioning program. I do feel that the coaching of the O-Line left much to be desired. It really is difficult to perfect your technique when you have to shift position frequently.

 

[Patriots-Lifer]

Well, Wolfe was torturing Kline for most of the afternoon, so I'm not sure if that supports your point, but Fleming appears helpless as anything but an extra TE and I don't see any upside to him, so, they've got to cut their losses. I've seen zero improvement. The opposite, if anything. Cannon occasionally looks good, but he's been consistently beaten to the edge and has been awful way too often this season. I think it would be best to find somebody else to develop and let him go, but they don't ask for my opinion. Might depend on his contract.

I haven't seen the stats lately, but last time I checked Vollmer had given up the most sacks and pressures of anybody on the line, at least partly because he played more snaps than the other guys and was playing at a different position. Seabass has been a very steady, plus-caliber RT for his whole career here when healthy and he will be back next year and presumably better back at RT. I think he's the best RT in Patriots history and if anyone has another candidate I'd like to know who that is. Still, I can't be sure if they think he's on the downside of his career. Maybe. He seems to have lost some agility, for sure.

It should be pointed out that we tend to blame guys for individual/athletic failures when they get whipped by a rusher and that happened numerous times Sunday, but there were tons of examples of Brady taking hits all year long because somebody didn't pick up the right guy or otherwise missed an assignment and Gugs gets fired almost immediately after the season.

Coincidence? I think not. I've been hearing that the Broncos picked up a "tell" Stork has when he is about to snap and were able to get a great jump. Plus, they weren't worried about the run. Is that on Stork or would, say, Scar have figured that out and fixed the issue? My point is there are a lot of things that go into successful Oline play.

I think we have the building blocks here for a much better OL next year, but we're going to need the right coach and to invest in at least two new guys for next season. I think we have two guards we can count on and will be able to find a center from the three guys we have. I'm guessing we need two tackles- a rookie and a vet. I'm sure it will be a major focal point, so I'm not going to spend the next 8 months fretting over what happened. They'll get it fixed.

I am sure the shifting from one position to another has affected many players on the O-line this season. Many very good L-Tackles could not switch to RT, (Todd Light). The Rookie Shaq Mason only played RG in College But he was shifted to LG a few times this season. The Guy was just to raw for that kind of work. I understand that it was Cannon's L-Foot that had the injury so I can see how he could be slower trying to block a speed rusher.

 

[HSanders]

Pats Fire Strength & Conditioning Coach Nash

WOW

I mean I was bummed when Wojicjcijccjiicjcicjicjicic went back to Dallas but I never dreamed his replacement would be a short timer too. BB has never fired 2 assistants in one offseason that I recall.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...rt-ways-with-strength-and-conditioning-coach/

 

[O.Z.O.]

The shit is beginning to appropriately hit the fan. Looking forward to what I anticipate will be a fairly significant overhaul.