Merged - Patriots Coaching Staff Changes

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Hawg73 said:
I wish I knew more specifics.

He was a good enough coach to get us to a Super Bowl win last year, but obviously the line play wasn't close to being acceptable.

I'd LOVE to know what really happened.

I'll tell you one thing: The constant chinese fire drill didn't help the situation.

I'm glad that we're making a move, because it can't possibly get any worse than what we just witnessed.
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Last year's OLine had 4 vets and the one rookie had two super knowledgeable guards either side.

May not have matter who the coach was...

Maybe koppen???
 
Yup. I remember halfway through the season Brady had taken something like 14 hits/knockdowns, and I thought he's not going to make it through the season. There were a few more games like that, and it was making me sick. Every time I would bring up the oline, how they're not giving Tommy protection, they can't block a path for a RB to save their lives, Brady has no time to throw the ball, I was called a Brady apologist.

No, I just wasn't blind.

Worst line I've seen in, well, decades. And they're not completely to blame. If he was the coach for NY when Sanchez was there, that kid spent as much time on his ass as he did on his feet.

Not a coincidence.
 
fwiw on another board there is a dude who said he worked with goog's cousin and googs was bummed that he had "no say in trades, cuts or who played".
 
PatsFanLisa said:
Yup. I remember halfway through the season Brady had taken something like 14 hits/knockdowns, and I thought he's not going to make it through the season. There were a few more games like that, and it was making me sick. Every time I would bring up the oline, how they're not giving Tommy protection, they can't block a path for a RB to save their lives, Brady has no time to throw the ball, I was called a Brady apologist.

No, I just wasn't blind.

Worst line I've seen in, well, decades. And they're not completely to blame. If he was the coach for NY when Sanchez was there, that kid spent as much time on his ass as he did on his feet.

Not a coincidence.
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And, occasionally, on his lineman's ass. :coffee:
 
Hawg73 said:
I wish I knew more specifics.

He was a good enough coach to get us to a Super Bowl win last year, but obviously the line play wasn't close to being acceptable.

I'd LOVE to know what really happened.

I'll tell you one thing: The constant chinese fire drill didn't help the situation.

Case in point: Shaq Mason played almost entirely at LG the whole season. So, RG Tre Jackson goes down with a knee a few weeks ago and instead of sticking Kline at RG, which he has played (I used the term loosely) fairly often this season and leave Mason alone, they switch him over to RG and put Kline at LG for the last two games.

Doesn't logic indicate that we get weaker at two spots when we make an unnecessary double switch like this? I know there are explanations for why we do this sort of thing, but there was zero coordination and I haven't seen a Pats OL get hosed up on simple stunts the way the 2015 edition did in a very long time.

I'm glad that we're making a move, because it can't possibly get any worse than what we just witnessed.
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You might recall 10 of Brady's sacks in 2014 came in the first 4 games so they gave up only 18 for the next 12 games. This season Andrews obviously just got worn out. And yes the shifting of people from one side to the other did not make any sense. This does seem to be the right move.
 
PatsFanLisa said:
Wasn't Guge with the Phins and Jets? What could BB possibly have seen in him to begin with?
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I seem to remember a few eyebrows being raised when he was hired - can't remember exactly what the knock on him was, but have a feeling it was a less than stellar track record and question marks about how he treated his players. Definitely a surprise hire at the time.
 
He never seemed like a bone fides Patriots coach. Too loud and shouty on the sidelines and I remember watching him a few times on the sidelines when Patriots.com would do their sights and sounds of the previous game and he never seemed to really connect with the linemen. He's be talking and shouting and they'd be just ignoring him! And I think I recall there were difficulties with him when he first started, he had a bit of a clash of personalties with one of two.

He was certainly under huge fire from the media after the very poor start in that O Line in 2014. I think he tinkered around too much. This piece from 2014 said it all.

DeGuglielmo wouldn’t say that the Patriots have decided on Solder, Connolly, Stork, Wendell and Vollmer as their starting offensive line just yet, despite their success. “I don’t know we’ve settled on anything,” DeGuglielmo said. “That just seems to be the guys that have played.” Those five players have made up the best combination for the Patriots this season, and a little continuity wouldn’t hurt to end the season. Just don’t text that advice to the O-line coach.

Read more at: http://nesn.com/2014/11/patriots-dave-deguglielmo-no-magic-formula-to-o-lines-improvement/
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">He was telling friends for a few weeks he feared he might be out of a job. This wasn't a one-day deal. <a href="https://t.co/itX8tUVZon">https://t.co/itX8tUVZon</a></p>— Mike Garafolo (@MikeGarafolo) <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/691781694995693568">January 26, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Patriots-Lifer said:
You might recall 10 of Brady's sacks in 2014 came in the first 4 games so they gave up only 18 for the next 12 games. This season Andrews obviously just got worn out. And yes the shifting of people from one side to the other did not make any sense. This does seem to be the right move.
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Obviously?

If you do get worn out then what people do is rest for a while and then get back into the fray. Andrews had a minor injury to deal with but once he went out he barely had a chance to crack a sweat for the rest of the way. To me, that is not consistent with a guy that is simply tired.

It was clear to me that he is significantly undersized and tended to struggle against the mooses. He needs another offseason to bulk up, but he didn't make a whole lot of mental mistakes and was able to slow guys down effectively.

That alone should have given him at least rotational snaps, but he went from every down to nothing.
 
sg14 said:
Last year's OLine had 4 vets and the one rookie had two super knowledgeable guards either side.

May not have matter who the coach was...

Maybe koppen???
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Might as well hire Hawg Hannah if we're going to hire ex-players with only HS coaching experience and get the GOAT.

It's a bit unusual for BB to hire an assistant from another team as was the case with Gugs. More often than not he picks a nobody that has worked his way up from the ground floor.

There have been a ton of smart guys who have played here and were thought of as solid candidates to become a coach down the road, but Bill prefers to do things a different way.

How about naming Hannah as OL coach and coaxing Scar out of retirement to mentor him?

If nothing else, I can guarantee that nobody would tune John Hannah out.
 
What about BB's son Steve. He's been a special assistant for 4 years now. Presumably, a special assistant is learning multiple positions and at some point will need to be promoted. Is he ready to take on a bigger responsibility?
 
subroc said:
Clearly the OL was a problem. If some blame needs to be placed somewhere who can argue with firing the OL coach.
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Exactly.

Gugs had a bad record at his previous OL gigs and many were surprised that BB would hire him at all.

Hawg is right. I've never seen a Pats OL perform as dismally as this one did the last few games of the season. That performance at Miami was pitiful with 1 mental mistake after another. Stork was particularly tuned out that game missing stunt after stunt.

Other than the players tuning Gugs out, which seemed apparent to me when I watched him on the sidelines - yelling with no one paying attention - why he got fired is a guessing game. I'll be seeing Mike Reiss soon so I'll ask what he knows/thinks about it.
 
PatsFanLisa said:
Exactly, Hawg. There was absolutely no consistency. Granted, you have to try to get the proper working combination, but there was no cohesiveness whatsoever.

As an example, Stork gets injured, Andrew comes in and does a bang-up job at center. Wouldn't logic dictate leaving him at center and moving Stork to guard, especially when you're not only thin there but not particularly secure with what you've got. I mean, why waste Andrews when he played well the first half of the season?

Last year, same thing. Connolly and Wendell get injured and it was musical chairs for weeks. They settled them down, but there were rumblings that I heard way back then that the oline wasn't buying in to Guge. I have to assume that he completely lost them this season.

Move Daboll up. At least players seem to like him. And dig a big huge hole in the ground and bury Cannon.
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Andrews was exposed as a weakness to the bull rush in the Buffalo game I believe and Stork came in to replace him. He needs an offseason of base building. The vet Connolly and Wendell were missed as a calming voice to offset the Fly off the handle act the Oline coach had.

Claremonster said:
And, occasionally, head deep in his lineman's ass. :coffee:
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fyp

as for moving the LG to RG, I think it had more to balancing the talent, Kline and Cannon is a scary combo but Shag and Cannon or Kline and Volmer on either side is not as frightening - does not make me warm and fuzzy but it is spreading the talent out.- or matching the talent. Cannon and Shaq are better at run, wishfully like Adams and Big House Moore in the mid 70's.
 
I imagine his fate was sealed when teams' top pass rushers got through to Brady untouched. I've said it elsewhere, but I remember one Miller sack where Fleming didn't touch him. Mrs Cat asked me why that kept happening. I said I didn't know because he's the best pass rusher in the league. I lost count of the number of overload blitzes I saw which no one picked up. I saw them coming and I've never played. The guys on the team for whom I do stats pick up blitzes like that. How the hell don't the Pats?

Let's not get started on the complete lack of push in the running game.
 
Mayo1251 said:
This is weird. I'm not sure how I feel about this move. Don't get me wrong - the OL sucked hard yesterday. But Vollmer played hurt, Stork's never been right since being hurt, and everyone else there is a scrub. Kline's a JAG. Cannon is downright horrible. Fleming is atrocious.

If we had Solder, things would've been very, very different. Seems like Gugs is getting fired b/c the personnel at the spot is weak. But - who knows? I trust BB, and obviously there is more going on behind the scenes.
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I agree
 
Must be some blame on Gugs for getting fired, though the injuries did in the O-line like every other position this year.

Gugs had the misfortune to be the guy who replaced Scar. As the old saying goes, you want to be the guy who replaces the guy who replaced the guy everyone respected. :)

Worst O-line in years tells you something about this firing. Tom would never talk about "protection problems" in public like Manning*, but I bet behind closed doors that Irish temper boiled up! Maybe BB seeing his star quarterback's bruises after Sunday convinced him that it was time for Gugs to go!
 
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