You are the "Dunning-Kruger Effect" in "Full EFFECT!!!, you think you know more by saying you know more and that others know nothing. I have sad news for you, and it's based on "Facts" proven over time. Let me go slow for you, you see in the First round of the draft, there is more NFL ready talent than in the second, and so fourth. This isn't my opinion, it's proven by the history of the draft. Can you get 1st round caliber players throughout the draft, sure, you can even get Hall of Famers as Undrafted Free Agents from time to time, but you simply don't know what your talking about when you say there is no set order or round in which a player should be taken because history of the draft proves you wrong every time. Individual outliers aside, the 1st round will produce more talent and NFL starters than the 7th round, it's laughable that you would argue otherwise.
Pats 2nd Round #50 Pick -- Tyquan Thornton
- Thread starter SkiptoMyLou
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Well, maybe the jets are the exception to the rule.
Or maybe it's every team. The Lions pick in the top 5 every year for like the last 30 years. The draft is a crapshoot. No one's guaranteed anything, even in the first round. That's how JC Jackson's making $18mil/yr now as a great #2 CB, and Mike Hughes is riding left bench for the Chiefs.
Edit: "Draft Experts" opinions on Mike Hughes:
View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2772857-mike-hughes-nfl-draft-2018-scouting-report-grade-for-vikings-rookie
2018 NFL Draft Grades: Vikings get a B for making Mike Hughes the latest corner for Zimmer
The Vikings add another first-round corner in a case of the rich getting richer
www.cbssports.com
What they’re saying about the Minnesota Vikings selecting Mike Hughes
It was a surprise, but what do the pundits think?
www.dailynorseman.com
2018 NFL Scouting Report: Scouting UCF cornerback, Mike Hughes
Hughes would be a day one starter for the Broncos at cornerback.
www.milehighreport.com
I compare the two, because the Vikings took him in the first round in 2018 (and couldn't get rid of him fast enough), and JC Jackson, of course, went undrafted.
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Dude breaks down a lot of tape, a lot of pro tape. Only time will tell. He could be Terry Glenn, he could be Hart Lee Dykes, we won't know for a while yet.
spacecrime
Well-known member
I posted Cosell's scouting report on TT earlier in this thread.
Cosell's written report on Thornton is unrestrained and shows none of the negative bias of the media pundits. He thinks for himself.
Cosell said in podcast that he loves the pick, btw.
I had no idea Cosell was writing scouting reports until this am but I went on his timeline on twitter this am and found many reports - this one tweeted by @FG_Dolan - that led to this site
Pats 2nd Round #50 Pick -- Tyquan Thornton
Go watch film of Thornton. Judge for yourself. I saw film. I am hopeful. I want him to succeed. But highlight vids can make anyone look good. See Bethel Johnson, Chad Jackson, NKeal Harry, Aaron Dobson. I was actually thinking which prior Patriot he's most like and couldn't think of a...
Big/Sky/Fly
370hssv vw6!s tu36v
Says the guy who never wanted to draft a #1 WR...Well, as a long time fav and the greatest GPT poster ever, we KNOW Belichick has you on "follow" here at the Planet.
You and DKF, of course.
aloyouis
at least generally aware
Says the guy who never wanted to draft a #1 WR...
I was complimenting you, Dew!
I think Thornton was a steal and that he will be great for the Pats.
What I think matters little.
Play the games.
spacecrime
Well-known member
What #1 WR receiver? TT is fast and should develop a great rapport with Mac. I love the pick but he's far from a #1 receiver at this point. When we talked about drafting a #1 receiver, I don't recall you or anyone pushing to use a high draft pick on Thornton.Says the guy who never wanted to draft a #1 WR...
We needed a fast receiver and that is what we got. I love it but even with my pro-Pats mindset, I can't call him a #1 at this point.
Hawg73
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I didn't, or rather couldn't, watch the clips you linked, but-- wasn't that the incredibly inept Hackenburg on the second one?
I watched him interviewed after a Penn State game and his cheeks flushed bright red just like in that shot. He was like a dorky
High School kid with zero self-confidence. A goober. By the time that interview was over I was convinced he couldn't possibly be an NFL QB,
so imagine my surprise when the Jets took him in the 2nd round. It was one of those draft moments when I was sure, dead solid SURE
that a bunch of professional scouts and suits were just as inept as he was as a QB. What did they see in him? What made them think
he could play?
He's the current worst Jets QB bust in history (beating Geno, Sanchez, Kellen Clemens, Browning Nagle and Richard Todd) and that
is something nobody can ever take from him. Yet.
That's definitely on the Jim Mora greatest hits list, this one's still my favorite though:
jim mora the father is one of my alltime favorite football humans along with bum phillips.
Or maybe it's every team. The Lions pick in the top 5 every year for like the last 30 years. The draft is a crapshoot. No one's guaranteed anything, even in the first round. That's how JC Jackson's making $18mil/yr now as a great #2 CB, and Mike Hughes is riding left bench for the Chiefs.
Edit: "Draft Experts" opinions on Mike Hughes:
View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2772857-mike-hughes-nfl-draft-2018-scouting-report-grade-for-vikings-rookie
2018 NFL Draft Grades: Vikings get a B for making Mike Hughes the latest corner for Zimmer
The Vikings add another first-round corner in a case of the rich getting richer(The Walter Football "A" is a classic in that one)What they’re saying about the Minnesota Vikings selecting Mike Hughes
It was a surprise, but what do the pundits think?
2018 NFL Scouting Report: Scouting UCF cornerback, Mike Hughes
Hughes would be a day one starter for the Broncos at cornerback.
I compare the two, because the Vikings took him in the first round in 2018 (and couldn't get rid of him fast enough), and JC Jackson, of course, went undrafted.
Not really the point, the fact is I was responding to the ridiculous assertion that what round and where a player is taken doesn't matter. It does matter, draft history proves that it matters, as does common sense. That said, I agree with the concept that it doesn't really matter where you take a player "if" they work out. The problem is when they don't, for example, you take a wr in the 2nd round that most had rated as a fifth round or later prospect over a hand full of 2nd round prospects and the kid can't play, trust me it will matter. At the end of the day Bill's recent drafts have hurt this team, last years looks promising but the previous three where largely wasted no matter what the bowbos say.
Flagg the Wanderer
Mourning Algernon
Jim Mora and Bum Phillips had a baby?
spacecrime
Well-known member
Agree, though I might put him in a tie with Nagle
As I clearly remember just about everyone was on board with the notion that due to several circumstances this was one of the deepest drafts in history.
Did reality change? Did the world change or has the narrative been claimed by those with a different agenda now? Just asking because I was not informed and feeling quite left out that I didn't get the memo.
spacecrime
Well-known member
I don't think the reality changed. Before the draft, everyone pretty much agreed that picks about 20 through 70 or 80 were pretty much the same. It would depend on what position a team needed and culture fit or whatever. After the draft that perception changed, According to the draft gurus post-draft, instead of a big group, they talked about reaches and teams that ignored great ...say, edge rushers...and instead picked a safety or something. They totally moved the goal posts.
I still think the pre-draft analysis was right. I think was an odd draft with not even a clear #1 pick. I thought this would be a draft that teams who had the best internal scouts would help themselves the most...Pats, Ravens, Steelers, Packers. But the draft is being judged differently. Even more than normal, with the big middle group of roughly-equal talent, will need a couple of years to evaluate.
I still think the pre-draft analysis was right. I think was an odd draft with not even a clear #1 pick. I thought this would be a draft that teams who had the best internal scouts would help themselves the most...Pats, Ravens, Steelers, Packers. But the draft is being judged differently. Even more than normal, with the big middle group of roughly-equal talent, will need a couple of years to evaluate.
I'm not sure what question you're asking? Deep draft or weak draft the general principle of what I'm saying holds true, and if you don't believe it look for yourself, ask how many high end QB's are starting for teams that were picked in the 7th round? Or any position for that matter. Let me say it clearly for those that don't seem to get a very basic concept. I was responding to a post in which it was claimed in a blanket statement that what round a player was taken in or projected to go in was irrelevant. That claim is absurd because the very history of the draft shows us just the opposite, more starters and pro-bowlers will be taken from the 1st round than in the 2nd and so fourth, you don't believe me, check for yourself. So when you claim that taking a WR that most pundits projected to be a 5th round talent in the 2nd, you are passing up a number of players that have higher likelihood of being a productive NFL players, you are in essence, going against the odds at a poker table. Now I will say that if you need a WR, and hit on a WR, it doesn't matter what round that player was projected in, but it does raise the question of why take them ahead of the projection when you could have filled other holes first, but then that goes down a whole rabbit hole of possibilities. My issue with this draft in general is that literally every single pick was outside conventional wisdom regarding draft position and value, so Bill is basically saying, "I know more than anyone that's scouted or evaluated these players." Fine, but he better be right, because if he's not, we will be competing with the Jets for last in the division this season and likely many to come. I Know the Bill worshipers will never hear this, but this was clearly a Bill draft and now he's going to have to be held accountable, for better or worse.As I clearly remember just about everyone was on board with the notion that due to several circumstances this was one of the deepest drafts in history.
Did reality change? Did the world change or has the narrative been claimed by those with a different agenda now? Just asking because I was not informed and feeling quite left out that I didn't get the memo.