The 2024 Draft

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OSUBuckeye said:
I mean is old man is a HOFer but Jr. is much faster & a lot bigger. He is arguably the best offensive player in college & that includes Williams
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His dad shot a guy in his bar, didn’t he? With a 50 cal pistol? That a badass rep right there to follow…
 
OSUBuckeye said:
If they can't get the qb they want getting Harrison jr & bringing in Baker Mayfield might work :shrug-n2:
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Unless the draft order changes, I don't see them getting Harrison. Arizona is stuck with Murray and they need a top WR WR badly.
 
spacecrime said:
Unless the draft order changes, I don't see them getting Harrison. Arizona is stuck with Murray and they need a top WR WR badly.
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Well they have Murray back now so they could win a couple of games, maybe even go .500 the rest of the way. After today's game which they are about to win, they have 3 very winnable games on their schedule still.
 
TommyD420 said:
You know he's a future bust in-waiting just like I do.
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Yeah, you're right. I do.
TommyD420 said:
That's the big question right? We don't really know.
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Da Bears would be nuts not to draft a QB unless, as OSU says, they draft Harrison.
They could trade picks with the Giants who have the 2nd pick right now and still get either a top QB or Harrison.
Or they could trade picks with us and still get Harrison with our pick 3 and we'd get pick 1 for our top QB leaving the Giants to pick another top QB.
So we don't really know is the correct answer.

I use "top QB" bc I'm not sold that Caleb Williams is actually NFL QB1 in this upcoming draft. He has gifts, I'm not saying he doesn't, but his demeanor is concerning.
I mean all those tears he shed crying in his mother's arms after that loss to Washington is not a good look to me. And he wouldn't shake hands with Utah's Barnes after the game? Oh, boy.
I see signs of an immature, emotionally unstable momma's boy as much as or more than the strong leader willing to risk life and limb to win.
I've seen enough flinching in the face of adversity recently.
I don't have answers and don't pretend to have answers. These are questions that will be answered in his interviews and background checks with prior coaches and team mates.
 
2024 NFL Draft Order
Pick Team Record Win% GB SOS
Streak
1
Carolina
CHI
1-8 .111 -- .512 Lost 2
2
NY Giants
2-8 .200 0.5 .522 Lost 3
3
New England
2-8 .200 0.5 .541 Lost 3
4
Arizona
2-8 .200 0.5 .544 Won 1
5
Chicago
3-7 .300 1.5 .484 Won 1
 
chevss454 said:
Yeah, you're right. I do.


Da Bears would be nuts not to draft a QB unless, as OSU says, they draft Harrison.
They could trade picks with the Giants who have the 2nd pick right now and still get either a top QB or Harrison.
Or they could trade picks with us and still get Harrison with our pick 3 and we'd get pick 1 for our top QB leaving the Giants to pick another top QB.
So we don't really know is the correct answer.

I use "top QB" bc I'm not sold that Caleb Williams is actually NFL QB1 in this upcoming draft. He has gifts, I'm not saying he doesn't, but his demeanor is concerning.
I mean all those tears he shed crying in his mother's arms after that loss to Washington is not a good look to me. And he wouldn't shake hands with Utah's Barnes after the game? Oh, boy.
I see signs of an immature, emotionally unstable momma's boy as much as or more than the strong leader willing to risk life and limb to win.
I've seen enough flinching in the face of adversity recently.
I don't have answers and don't pretend to have answers. These are questions that will be answered in his interviews and background checks with prior coaches and team mates.
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I have 2 counterpoints.

1) That Washington game was basically Caleb Williams vs the Washington Huskies and he damn near pulled it off. Lincoln Riley put actually nothing around him after a Heisman campaign last year, so I actually understand the frustration from a kid who just turned 21. This isn't a 23 or 24 year old, nor is it a 10 year NFL vet. Hell, Baker Mayfield used to cry after losses all the time.

2) Not shaking hands w/ Barnes is immature, but again, this is a team he's lost to 3 times now, a team that shouldn't be beating USC 3 straight times. Utah's good, but they're not that good.

To you it shows immaturity, to me it shows competitive fire. This isn't a 3 year NFL vet crying because he threw yet another game-losing interception and got pulled when his team still had a chance to win. At least not to me. I can see it your way too - but if this is your only warning, bear in mind that wherever he goes isn't going to be expected to win right away.

And then again, this may all be moot, because he might go back to school anyway if he's not interested in coming here.
 
TommyD420 said:
I have 2 counterpoints.

1) That Washington game was basically Caleb Williams vs the Washington Huskies and he damn near pulled it off. Lincoln Riley put actually nothing around him after a Heisman campaign last year, so I actually understand the frustration from a kid who just turned 21. This isn't a 23 or 24 year old, nor is it a 10 year NFL vet. Hell, Baker Mayfield used to cry after losses all the time.

2) Not shaking hands w/ Barnes is immature, but again, this is a team he's lost to 3 times now, a team that shouldn't be beating USC 3 straight times. Utah's good, but they're not that good.

To you it shows immaturity, to me it shows competitive fire. This isn't a 3 year NFL vet crying because he threw yet another game-losing interception and got pulled when his team still had a chance to win. At least not to me. I can see it your way too - but if this is your only warning, bear in mind that wherever he goes isn't going to be expected to win right away.

And then again, this may all be moot, because he might go back to school anyway if he's not interested in coming here.
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How about poor sport?
 
TommyD420 said:
I have 2 counterpoints.

1) That Washington game was basically Caleb Williams vs the Washington Huskies and he damn near pulled it off. Lincoln Riley put actually nothing around him after a Heisman campaign last year, so I actually understand the frustration from a kid who just turned 21. This isn't a 23 or 24 year old, nor is it a 10 year NFL vet. Hell, Baker Mayfield used to cry after losses all the time.

2) Not shaking hands w/ Barnes is immature, but again, this is a team he's lost to 3 times now, a team that shouldn't be beating USC 3 straight times. Utah's good, but they're not that good.

To you it shows immaturity, to me it shows competitive fire. This isn't a 3 year NFL vet crying because he threw yet another game-losing interception and got pulled when his team still had a chance to win. At least not to me. I can see it your way too - but if this is your only warning, bear in mind that wherever he goes isn't going to be expected to win right away.

And then again, this may all be moot, because he might go back to school anyway if he's not interested in coming here.
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30 fumbles in 3 years doesn't give you pause?
 
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PFT says we should get the 1st pick.

F-5wKC_WIAAfTpC
 
This is really tricky re the QB choices.

There are so many competing voices out there as to who will be the best QB in the draft. People like Williams but question his mindset and he seems to be mollycoddled by his parents. Now, having a demanding driver for a dad can be a good thing if you have a dad like Julian Edelman or a bad thing if you have a dad like Gronk's.

Pennix is discussed, Maye and I even hear today on Patriots Unfitered, the FSU QB being mentioned, Jordan Travis as being on to watch as well,

Even if it seems there is a QB lock at 1 in the draft, it can turn out to be a disaster. Let's be frank on recent NFL history. From 2009 on, the below list is a sample of QBs taken in the 1st round. Omitted are the standouts like Mahomes, Lawrence, Herbert, Allen, Stafford, Luck, Newton, Lamar, Burrow, Tua; who are/were genuine franchise-changing QBs albeit some of them did not deliver championships (Newton, Luck), and the jury is still out on whether Tua, Lamar, Herbert, even Allen can deliver.

And some of the above QBs were not exactly taken at pick 1 or 2. Mahomes for one, and Lamar was pick 32.

It seems to be genuinely impossible to predict who will hit and who will miss.

  • Manziel
  • RGIII
  • Winston
  • Goff
  • Bradford
  • Locker
  • Gabbert
  • Ponder
  • Tannehill
  • EJ Manuel
  • Newton
  • Bortles
  • Mariota
  • Wentz
  • Paxton Lynch
  • Trubisky
  • Darnold
  • Rosen
  • Murray
  • Daniel Jones
  • Zach Wilson
  • Mac Jones
  • Trey Lance
  • Sanchez
  • Tebow
  • Bridgewater
  • Mayfield
 
Roberto71 said:
This is really tricky re the QB choices.

There are so many competing voices out there as to who will be the best QB in the draft. People like Williams but question his mindset and he seems to be mollycoddled by his parents. Now, having a demanding driver for a dad can be a good thing if you have a dad like Julian Edelman or a bad thing if you have a dad like Gronk's.

Pennix is discussed, Maye and I even hear today on Patriots Unfitered, the FSU QB being mentioned, Jordan Travis as being on to watch as well,

Even if it seems there is a QB lock at 1 in the draft, it can turn out to be a disaster. Let's be frank on recent NFL history. From 2009 on, the below list is a sample of QBs taken in the 1st round. Omitted are the standouts like Mahomes, Lawrence, Herbert, Allen, Stafford, Luck, Newton, Lamar, Burrow, Tua; who are/were genuine franchise-changing QBs albeit some of them did not deliver championships (Newton, Luck), and the jury is still out on whether Tua, Lamar, Herbert, even Allen can deliver.

And some of the above QBs were not exactly taken at pick 1 or 2. Mahomes for one, and Lamar was pick 32.

It seems to be genuinely impossible to predict who will hit and who will miss.

  • Manziel
  • RGIII
  • Winston
  • Goff
  • Bradford
  • Locker
  • Gabbert
  • Ponder
  • Tannehill
  • EJ Manuel
  • Newton
  • Bortles
  • Mariota
  • Wentz
  • Paxton Lynch
  • Trubisky
  • Darnold
  • Rosen
  • Murray
  • Daniel Jones
  • Zach Wilson
  • Mac Jones
  • Trey Lance
  • Sanchez
  • Tebow
  • Bridgewater
  • Mayfield
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Nix could be good, or, he could be another Mac Jones (looks decent with a loaded roster).

The QB needs to lift up the team around him like TB12 did. He has to be smart, be able to play well even with adversity, have enough power in his arm to deliver any and every throw possible, be accurate, scramble fast enough to avoid pressure and sacks, get rid of the ball FAST, be able to play well with scrubs if needed.

It’s not that big of a wish list really…
 
ParanoidPatriot said:
30 fumbles in 3 years doesn't give you pause?
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It seems like kind of a lot, yes. Even though along with that you might consider how dependent Lincoln Riley is on him and how
his system counts on him to do much more than just manage a game. He's not just freelancing out there.

Caleb has accounted for 120 TDs in those 3 years, 27 of them rushing and one receiving.

92 TD passes with 13 picks is a little better than a 7 to 1 ratio which is obviously excellent. Since he functions almost like a hybrid RB/QB
you might want to add the fumbles into the picks to knock that down to a 2.8 to 1 total touchdown to turnovers ratio which is obviously
not nearly as good, but way be a more fair way to judge what he is asked to do.

When I've seen him fumble it has generally been when he is scrambling around trying to extend a play and gets the ball punched loose. He
could clearly be better at ball security and that is likely to be the worst metric scouts will have to consider. He will have to improve that
in pro ball and tame his tendency to try to do everything by himself, perhaps by running less or learning when to throw the ball away.
 
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