Looking at the Patriots - 2018

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mooseontheloose said:
I mean that speaks to BB doing a good job drafting but the fact that none of the players are currently helping the Pats is also relevant. For Jones they got Thuney (has been OK) and Mitchell (missed all year). The pick they got for Collins was eventually sent to NO for Cooks, which was a good trade, but at the same time they wasted their own 3rd trading for Ealy. So really that's a wash because without the Collins trade they could have traded their own 3rd in the Cooks deal and not bothered with Ealy. Return for Jimmy is TBD.

Not sure I can get that excited about guys who played well on their rookie deals but weren't retained. And on that list you had 2 promising defensive players who were traded for picks that ended up being used to acquire offensive players.

This D has a stunning lack of talent up front and that falls on BB, and isn't offset by making a few decent draft picks.
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BB hasn't liked paying grinders a ton of money in the past. VW was the exception but when they want to get paid, he normally trades them as he did Seymour. It's economics. Rookie deals pay off but beyond that paying Chandler Jones $17.5M/ and Jamie Collins $12.5M/ isn't happening with BB. His philosophy of getting good players for 4 years cheaply then letting them make their money somewhere else makes great economic sense to me. I see the value in those 4 rookie years and I'm glad we had them while we did. BB's MO is use them, trade 'em, restock through FA/the draft and move on. He will improve our front 7 this year; he sees what we see. Our LBs, Roberts and Marquis Flowers suck.
 
The talent on the 2015 Patriots front seven was pretty good. How we went from this to Elandon Roberts, Marquis Flowers, Eric Lee, and Jordan Richards is crazy. BB could have done better.


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mooseontheloose said:
I mean that speaks to BB doing a good job drafting but the fact that none of the players are currently helping the Pats is also relevant. For Jones they got Thuney (has been OK) and Mitchell (missed all year). The pick they got for Collins was eventually sent to NO for Cooks, which was a good trade, but at the same time they wasted their own 3rd trading for Ealy. So really that's a wash because without the Collins trade they could have traded their own 3rd in the Cooks deal and not bothered with Ealy. Return for Jimmy is TBD.

Not sure I can get that excited about guys who played well on their rookie deals but weren't retained. And on that list you had 2 promising defensive players who were traded for picks that ended up being used to acquire offensive players.

This D has a stunning lack of talent up front and that falls on BB, and isn't offset by making a few decent draft picks.
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They didn’t waste a 3rd on Ealy.

They wasted moving down 8 spots.
 
mooseontheloose said:
I mean that speaks to BB doing a good job drafting but the fact that none of the players are currently helping the Pats is also relevant. For Jones they got Thuney (has been OK) and Mitchell (missed all year). The pick they got for Collins was eventually sent to NO for Cooks, which was a good trade, but at the same time they wasted their own 3rd trading for Ealy. So really that's a wash because without the Collins trade they could have traded their own 3rd in the Cooks deal and not bothered with Ealy. Return for Jimmy is TBD.

Not sure I can get that excited about guys who played well on their rookie deals but weren't retained. And on that list you had 2 promising defensive players who were traded for picks that ended up being used to acquire offensive players.

This D has a stunning lack of talent up front and that falls on BB, and isn't offset by making a few decent draft picks.
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I don't think the Cooks trade was all that great...
 
Big/Sky/Fly said:
I don't think the Cooks trade was all that great...
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His production was pretty great. He's not perfect in terms of big & physical, but he serves a needed role on the perimeter.
 
chevss454 said:
BB hasn't liked paying grinders a ton of money in the past. VW was the exception but when they want to get paid, he normally trades them as he did Seymour. It's economics. Rookie deals pay off but beyond that paying Chandler Jones $17.5M/ and Jamie Collins $12.5M/ isn't happening with BB. His philosophy of getting good players for 4 years cheaply then letting them make their money somewhere else makes great economic sense to me. I see the value in those 4 rookie years and I'm glad we had them while we did. BB's MO is use them, trade 'em, restock through FA/the draft and move on. He will improve our front 7 this year; he sees what we see. Our LBs, Roberts and Marquis Flowers suck.
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I'm not advocating signing those guys to big deals. Neither of them were elite players.

What I wanted to point out was that in those two cases BB got rid of key contributors on D and didn't end up with much on that side of the ball. I forgot that the Ealy deal eventually led to Rivers but he was hurt all year too. Can't necessarily blame BB for that though.

As you pointed out later in this thread, BB has done a very poor job of maintaining/upgrading the front 7 of this defense. The secondary has been fairly strong since they got Revis/Browner in 2014 but the front 7 has deteriorated badly.

Obviously we all expect him to spend capital on upgrading it this off-season because they moves he made last year (plus injuries) were very ineffective. But it's not like there aren't existing/potential (if Gronk were to retire for example) holes on offense too.

It'll be an interesting summer.
 
mooseontheloose said:
I'm not advocating signing those guys to big deals. Neither of them were elite players.

What I wanted to point out was that in those two cases BB got rid of key contributors on D and didn't end up with much on that side of the ball. I forgot that the Ealy deal eventually led to Rivers but he was hurt all year too. Can't necessarily blame BB for that though.

As you pointed out later in this thread, BB has done a very poor job of maintaining/upgrading the front 7 of this defense. The secondary has been fairly strong since they got Revis/Browner in 2014 but the front 7 has deteriorated badly.

Obviously we all expect him to spend capital on upgrading it this off-season because they moves he made last year (plus injuries) were very ineffective. But it's not like there aren't existing/potential (if Gronk were to retire for example) holes on offense too.

It'll be an interesting summer.
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I agree with this but it has been obvious for some time now that BB is riding Brady which is not a bad strategy. I would love a stout defense again but I don't see it happening until TB12 hangs them up. Just too much fire power coming from that side especially now that Josh is back.

I think we may be overacting to the SB loss and not realizing that this team was six minutes/one stop from its 3rd chip in 4 years. With the cap/FA you just can't build both sides of the ball equally and when you have the GOAT QB, you have to shore up that side more as it will win you more games.

I also think we are not taking into account the devastating injuries to the D that really hurt us - Hightower/Rivers. And also the time it took for Gilmore to get up to speed and Butler's immaturity. There were some real issues for BB to navigate this season. What we also may not be realizing is some real bright spots like the development of Jonathan Jones, Deitrich Wise, Adam Butler, Malcolm Brown looking dominant, Gilmore looking like a top 5 CB from mid-season on. There is quite a bit to build on but we have to address the LBs which I expect to happen and find the edge guys. Compared to most other teams, we are in the catbird seat in terms of what we need to do to improve and the AFC is still a collection of teams that mostly suck outside of a few so our path back to the SB will be right in front of us for the taking IMO.
 
Mazz22 said:
I agree with this but it has been obvious for some time now that BB is riding Brady which is not a bad strategy. I would love a stout defense again but I don't see it happening until TB12 hangs them up. Just too much fire power coming from that side especially now that Josh is back.

I think we may be overacting to the SB loss and not realizing that this team was six minutes/one stop from its 3rd chip in 4 years. With the cap/FA you just can't build both sides of the ball equally and when you have the GOAT QB, you have to shore up that side more as it will win you more games.

I also think we are not taking into account the devastating injuries to the D that really hurt us - Hightower/Rivers. And also the time it took for Gilmore to get up to speed and Butler's immaturity. There were some real issues for BB to navigate this season. What we also may not be realizing is some real bright spots like the development of Jonathan Jones, Deitrich Wise, Adam Butler, Malcolm Brown looking dominant, Gilmore looking like a top 5 CB from mid-season on. There is quite a bit to build on but we have to address the LBs which I expect to happen and find the edge guys. Compared to most other teams, we are in the catbird seat in terms of what we need to do to improve and the AFC is still a collection of teams that mostly suck outside of a few so our path back to the SB will be right in front of us for the taking IMO.
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Dwight Schrute said:
I’d love to get a look at this kid here
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Red flags - Cravens went missing at both USC and the Redskins so I'd like to know more about his mental state before considering him. BB will vet him out if he's interested in Cravens.
 
chevss454 said:
Red flags - Cravens went missing at both USC and the Redskins so I'd like to know more about his mental state before considering him. BB will vet him out if he's interested in Cravens.
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Agree.

But he sounds like a guy who was embracing and excited about becoming a Patriot and things got changed up on him in the 11th hr.
 
Holy crap Cleveland.

Was just perusing draft info with an eye on possible trade downs for the Pats.

The Factory of Sadness holds 1,4,33,35,64,65,97,119,129,150,161,193.

They are going to build a powerhouse at some point. Look no further than Jax wallowing in suck until it comes together.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
Holy crap Cleveland.

Was just perusing draft info with an eye on possible trade downs for the Pats.

The Factory of Sadness holds 1,4,33,35,64,65,97,119,129,150,161,193.

They are going to build a powerhouse at some point. Look no further than Jax wallowing in suck until it comes together.
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And that is where we should be looking on cut down day.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
Holy crap Cleveland.

Was just perusing draft info with an eye on possible trade downs for the Pats.

The Factory of Sadness holds 1,4,33,35,64,65,97,119,129,150,161,193.

They are going to build a powerhouse at some point. Look no further than Jax wallowing in suck until it comes together.
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That is 7 draft selections in the top 100!!!!!

If the Cleveland Browns screw up this draft and don't get significantly better, the NFL should take this team away from them.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
Agree.

But he sounds like a guy who was embracing and excited about becoming a Patriot and things got changed up on him in the 11th hr.
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Changed up on him? He was interviewed and somehow equates that as a promise to be drafted? Something's loose in his caboose.

Anyway, football doesn't seem to be very important to him, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for BB's call if I were him.

---------- Post added at 05:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:58 PM ----------
Dwight Schrute said:
Holy crap Cleveland.

Was just perusing draft info with an eye on possible trade downs for the Pats.

The Factory of Sadness holds 1,4,33,35,64,65,97,119,129,150,161,193.

They are going to build a powerhouse at some point. Look no further than Jax wallowing in suck until it comes together.
Click to expand...
They gotta fire whoever is the guy doing the drafting.
 
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