Looking At The Patriots 2022

Hawg73

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He has always had his moments where he goes off on an answer and we see a tiny, tiny bit of the inside of his mind. I am unsure why we are seeing it more now. Could be he is being asked better questions (that isn't it) or that he is mellowing/understands his potential legacy more. Either way, I like it when the allows the inside coach to talk the outside. More and more.

Can you imagine if he auctioned off a 2 hour block of time 1 on 1 with himself and you could ask anything football X's and O's (maybe a little lax too, my other love)? Imagine you win and have 2 weeks to get your questions together. Holy shit! Where to begin?

What is your first question?

I'd ask him about those 2nd round picks that busted out. I've already heard his views on the subject going back a ways, that he feels like that is the round where you take a chance on a dude with first-round traits but has flaws to work out. Specifically, if he has had a change of heart on the topic after so many fizzled out. Does he feel that one Gronk offsets Dawson/Klemm/Wheatley and about a dozen more.
 

TipRoast

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I'd ask him about those 2nd round picks that busted out. I've already heard his views on the subject going back a ways, that he feels like that is the round where you take a chance on a dude with first-round traits but has flaws to work out. Specifically, if he has had a change of heart on the topic after so many fizzled out. Does he feel that one Gronk offsets Dawson/Klemm/Wheatley and about a dozen more.
Second round picks by Belichick that turned out to be quality NFL players: Matt Light, Deion Branch, Shane Vereen, Jamie Collins, Jimmy Garoppolo.

Jury is still out on Kyle Dugger, Josh Uche, Christian Barmore, and Tyquan Thornton, but maybe BB will hit on all four of those.

If you look at any random draft in the last 20 years, you'll see that maybe 20-25% of the second round players make the ProBowl (and that's a pretty ho-hum honor these days).

In 2010, the year Gronk came out, there were 10 Pro Bowlers, but that's an outlier. More typical are years like 2014 & 2015 (6 PBers each year).

BB and the scouting department aren't perfect, and they're often drafting near the bottom of the round, which means the talent pool is already drained a bit when they're making their second round choice(s). I think they do OK in all the rounds, and are especially good at finding talent in the UDFA arena.

Even in the first round, the odds of hitting on a Pro-Bowler are less than 50%. Many have opined that the draft is a crapshoot, and the numbers bear that out.
 

DropKickFlutie

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1. One can’t see BB’s drafts in a vacuum. It’s heavily dependent on the period. He hit on a lot of good players drafted when he had good staff around him. Specifically 2001-2004 and 2009-2012 were great. A lot of core championship players acquired then. In between he filled with hits in trades (Welker, Moss) or UDFA (Butler, Jackson).

2. Certain drafts SUCKED. 2019 looks worse and worse. 2013-2019 is a below average period. The trio of the 3 stooges college roommates from John Carroll college, were terrible talent evaluators. Same thing with 2005-2008, a ton of draft busts. I am extremely glad JMD went somewhere else, this was a massive upgrade for the franchise in addition via subtraction.

3. Certain homers here need to own up to prior ridiculous defenses of Nkeal Harry, or even Herron who was just traded away for nothing. There is a growing list of complete busts who are not defensible and it’s ridiculous how much they were defended by blind homers who would explain away anything just because the Patriots did it.
 
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chevss454

chevss454

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Miguel wanted to give us something to look forward to for 2023.

FdQAThvXwAAY4rN
 
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aloyouis

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I'd ask him about those 2nd round picks that busted out. I've already heard his views on the subject going back a ways, that he feels like that is the round where you take a chance on a dude with first-round traits but has flaws to work out. Specifically, if he has had a change of heart on the topic after so many fizzled out. Does he feel that one Gronk offsets Dawson/Klemm/Wheatley and about a dozen more.
I might not start the conversation with him on that note, but it’s a worthy question for the 2 hours.
 

Hawg73

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Second round picks by Belichick that turned out to be quality NFL players: Matt Light, Deion Branch, Shane Vereen, Jamie Collins, Jimmy Garoppolo.

Jury is still out on Kyle Dugger, Josh Uche, Christian Barmore, and Tyquan Thornton, but maybe BB will hit on all four of those.

If you look at any random draft in the last 20 years, you'll see that maybe 20-25% of the second round players make the ProBowl (and that's a pretty ho-hum honor these days).

In 2010, the year Gronk came out, there were 10 Pro Bowlers, but that's an outlier. More typical are years like 2014 & 2015 (6 PBers each year).

BB and the scouting department aren't perfect, and they're often drafting near the bottom of the round, which means the talent pool is already drained a bit when they're making their second round choice(s). I think they do OK in all the rounds, and are especially good at finding talent in the UDFA arena.

Even in the first round, the odds of hitting on a Pro-Bowler are less than 50%. Many have opined that the draft is a crapshoot, and the numbers bear that out.

The recent 4 you list are all legit talents who could all end up having fine careers. This is why I would ask the question. Did something change his mind? When he first saw JoeJuan in a Patriots uni helpless to cover anybody, did he ever think to himself "I'm getting sick and tired of this shit"?

I'm not a "Bill Can't Draft" person at all. I'm all about him, but when you're picking a top 60 (some were much higher) player then you should expect to get a guy that can help the team. Forget Pro Bowl. You hope to get a plus starter, but sometimes a useful guy who you can rotate in and get some stituational production out of is acceptable. What isn't acceptable is to take a player that eats a roster spot for 3 or so years and provides absolutely nothing. Never improves significantly. Never gives an indication as to what our scouts saw in him that made them think he could play in the NFL, much less justify a top 60 selection.

Here is a reverse chrono list of 2nd round guys who gave us a total donut hole. Not one of them did anything for us. I happen to think that it isn't enough to think "oh, well....it's a crapshoot" and that we could have and should have done better. Lately it appears that we have.


JoeJuan Williams
Duke Dawson
Cyrus Jones
Jordan Richards
Aaron Dobson
Ras-I Dowling
Jermaine Cunningham
Ron Brace
Darius Butler
Terrence Wheatley
Chad Jackson
Adrian Klemm
 

DropKickFlutie

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The recent 4 you list are all legit talents who could all end up having fine careers. This is why I would ask the question. Did something change his mind? When he first saw JoeJuan in a Patriots uni helpless to cover anybody, did he ever think to himself "I'm getting sick and tired of this shit"?

I'm not a "Bill Can't Draft" person at all. I'm all about him, but when you're picking a top 60 (some were much higher) player then you should expect to get a guy that can help the team. Forget Pro Bowl. You hope to get a plus starter, but sometimes a useful guy who you can rotate in and get some stituational production out of is acceptable. What isn't acceptable is to take a player that eats a roster spot for 3 or so years and provides absolutely nothing. Never improves significantly. Never gives an indication as to what our scouts saw in him that made them think he could play in the NFL, much less justify a top 60 selection.

Here is a reverse chrono list of 2nd round guys who gave us a total donut hole. Not one of them did anything for us. I happen to think that it isn't enough to think "oh, well....it's a crapshoot" and that we could have and should have done better. Lately it appears that we have.


JoeJuan Williams
Duke Dawson
Cyrus Jones
Jordan Richards
Aaron Dobson
Ras-I Dowling
Jermaine Cunningham
Ron Brace
Darius Butler
Terrence Wheatley
Chad Jackson
Adrian Klemm

All during the Caserio/McDaniels period. Delete whatever crappy CB criteria they came up. Pats drafted well with Asante and also gem UDFA in Butler and JC Jackson. The CB draft criteria before was broken for awhile. But apparently with Groh/Wolf the new kids Jack Jones and Marcus are supposedly decent. Same with WR, hadn’t drafted well since Branch / Givens with a lot of busts in between but apparently Thornton is good
 

BostonTim

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"Some solid Tackle depth".

What a crock. Rapoport is trying to sound like he knows what he's talking about, but he
never watched Herron play or he'd keep his trap shut. Depth is only solid if the backup can play.
what pick are the swapping?
I'd ask him about those 2nd round picks that busted out. I've already heard his views on the subject going back a ways, that he feels like that is the round where you take a chance on a dude with first-round traits but has flaws to work out. Specifically, if he has had a change of heart on the topic after so many fizzled out. Does he feel that one Gronk offsets Dawson/Klemm/Wheatley and about a dozen more.
Nice Q
 

Big/Sky/Fly

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The recent 4 you list are all legit talents who could all end up having fine careers. This is why I would ask the question. Did something change his mind? When he first saw JoeJuan in a Patriots uni helpless to cover anybody, did he ever think to himself "I'm getting sick and tired of this shit"?

I'm not a "Bill Can't Draft" person at all. I'm all about him, but when you're picking a top 60 (some were much higher) player then you should expect to get a guy that can help the team. Forget Pro Bowl. You hope to get a plus starter, but sometimes a useful guy who you can rotate in and get some stituational production out of is acceptable. What isn't acceptable is to take a player that eats a roster spot for 3 or so years and provides absolutely nothing. Never improves significantly. Never gives an indication as to what our scouts saw in him that made them think he could play in the NFL, much less justify a top 60 selection.

Here is a reverse chrono list of 2nd round guys who gave us a total donut hole. Not one of them did anything for us. I happen to think that it isn't enough to think "oh, well....it's a crapshoot" and that we could have and should have done better. Lately it appears that we have.


JoeJuan Williams
Duke Dawson
Cyrus Jones
Jordan Richards
Aaron Dobson
Ras-I Dowling
Jermaine Cunningham
Ron Brace
Darius Butler
Terrence Wheatley
Chad Jackson
Adrian Klemm
BB loves to roll the dice. Especially in the 2nd. It's a mixed bag for sure. I'm not sure why he can find 2nd rounders in the UDFA zone...maybe that part just evens everything out?
 

Hawg73

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All during the Caserio/McDaniels period. Delete whatever crappy CB criteria they came up. Pats drafted well with Asante and also gem UDFA in Butler and JC Jackson. The CB draft criteria before was broken for awhile. But apparently with Groh/Wolf the new kids Jack Jones and Marcus are supposedly decent. Same with WR, hadn’t drafted well since Branch / Givens with a lot of busts in between but apparently Thornton is good

Ummmm, not technically. Nope.
 

DropKickFlutie

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These crappy CBs and WRs were all drafted while Josh McDaniels and Nick Caserio were here. Drafts were much better 2009-2012 when Floyd Reese and Bill O’Brien were on staff.

Draft Busts via Team John Carroll
JoeJuan Williams
Duke Dawson
Cyrus Jones
Jordan Richards
Aaron Dobson
Ras-I Dowling
Darius Butler
Terrence Wheatley
Chad Jackson
 

Patriots-Lifer

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These crappy CBs and WRs were all drafted while Josh McDaniels and Nick Caserio were here. Drafts were much better 2009-2012 when Floyd Reese and Bill O’Brien were on staff.

Draft Busts via Team John Carroll
JoeJuan Williams
Duke Dawson
Cyrus Jones
Jordan Richards
Aaron Dobson
Ras-I Dowling
Darius Butler
Terrence Wheatley
Chad Jackson
Hell you can find this type of a list for just about every team in the NFL if you try.
 

DarnSyd

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I doubt our roster will need 14 rookies. I expect some trading into the future, etc. But that is usually the case.

Miguel's draft pick grid is a little confusing as it also contains picks traded to other teams and you have to subtract the non Patriots' owners (3) from the total, so it's 11, which is still a ton of picks. For some reason I thought that they had 10 picks...
 

TipRoast

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Miguel's draft pick grid is a little confusing as it also contains picks traded to other teams and you have to subtract the non Patriots' owners (3) from the total, so it's 11, which is still a ton of picks. For some reason I thought that they had 10 picks...
Yes, 11 picks. But I really doubt that when the draft is over that the Patriots will have selected 11 players from those eligible to be drafted.

There will be trades as the Pats move up and down the board, perhaps some trades of picks for established veterans, and almost certainly some trades for picks in upcoming drafts.
 
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