QB rankings - Manning and Luck at the bottom

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Darth Despot said:
OL...

Needs a running game....

WRs not good enough...

Man I remember all that.
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Yep. When the dominant thought is that your QB needs all of the above to be successful chances are you don't have a great QB ...
 
Big/Sky/Fly said:
Bledsoe wasn't that bad...but Brady is much better than Bledsoe. And I liked Bledsoe...
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I liked Drew too but Brady made you realized that there is big gap between a good QB and a great one.
 
amfootball said:
I disagree as that is a simplistic way of looking at football. QBs are not just sitting ducks back there. They are at the line, setting the protections, making the reads, seeing the blitz and have to make a good decision and a good throw. That is how good QBing is done. There is never one unit on any team that is perfect in this era of FA and the cap so the QBs that are worth their salt understand that they can't always rely on the Oline being perfect. They have to be able to account for poor play and free rushers and make quick reads and get the ball out of their hands.
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Or the QB can throw the ball quickly to take some pressure off the OL.

TFB+ has done that this year.

Yes, the young OL has played well so far, but if you know the ball's going to be out in under 2 seconds, that simplifies your job as a pass blocker.

So TFB+ has certainly helped his OL in that regard.

If you're throwing the ball deep, that simply means the OL has to hold their blocks longer. That doesn't help them.
 
Hawg73 said:
I've come to the conclusion that a lot of Luck's woes are caused by Pep Hamilton's system combined with Grigson's shit personnel.

Luck has zero protection, no receiving option at RB and yet is throwing deep on every other play. It's like the whole offense was designed around T.Y. Hilton and he's got injury issues.

I love to see the Colts struggling because I've given up defending them after their role in DFgate. However, I can't help but feel a bit sorry for Luck. It's not his fault his GM is a prick and he's too good to be throwing all these pics. I believe it is largely the OC's incompetence that is causing havoc. Where is the short game? Where is any attempt to adjust or show patience? Andre Johnson appears to be toast. He is dropping balls left and right and has no wheels. God, I'm glad the Pats didn't sign him.

I can't see it getting much better for Luck this year, either. It's going to be one hell of a learning experience if he can survive it all.

Guys that have progressed steadily and done the sorts of things he has in his short career don't just fall through the floorboards for no reason.
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Usually, a #1 overall pick goes into that poor OL situation in his 1st season, not 4th. That team tanked to get him, so this shouldn't be the case. Also, their offense has always had a viable and reliable pass catching TE option. They're a mess right now, and I'm loving it. Still a lot of football left and their division sucks. Who knows? Their defense is still terrible, and even if they do make the playoffs, once they are forced to leave their comfy dome and play on the road in said playoffs, they can't win because they're not built for it. Of course, this is all assuming they don't go one and done. Again


Also, the Colts still haven't extended his contract... :coffee:
 
amfootball said:
I disagree as that is a simplistic way of looking at football. QBs are not just sitting ducks back there. They are at the line, setting the protections, making the reads, seeing the blitz and have to make a good decision and a good throw. That is how good QBing is done. There is never one unit on any team that is perfect in this era of FA and the cap so the QBs that are worth their salt understand that they can't always rely on the Oline being perfect. They have to be able to account for poor play and free rushers and make quick reads and get the ball out of their hands.
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Super Bowl 42 though
 
amfootball said:
I liked Drew too but Brady made you realized that there is big gap between a good QB and a great one.
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Almost sounds similar to what GB is experiencing. Favre was a gunslinger (Bledsoe comp). His replacement (Brady comp) is almost better than he was. Rare...but, similar to the Pats situation.
 
Peachhead said:
When your O-line sucks, your QB sucks.
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and ol play sucks pretty much all of september for a lot of teams because they don't practice that much since 2011. of all units, they have to be the most in synch to work properly. that takes time. talk about a concession that led to unintended consequences.
 
Pretty hard to cover up O line play with a crappy QB. How would a young Bledsoe do with the current Pats O line? JMO.
 
Patriots4ever said:
What about SB 49?

The Pats got by with their OL last year. It totally crapped the bed in 42. They couldn't block 4 guys :coffee:
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I was more talking about Brady's play. In SB 42 he held the ball against a great Giants defensive front and paid the price. In SB 49 he got the ball out of his hands in a nanosecond to avoid the rush and had the best fourth quarter in SB history. Again, good Oline, bad Oline, still comes down to the QB more than anything ...
 
I hate to rehash SB 42 because it boils my blood. The OL couldn't block 4 guys. The Giants dropped 7 into coverage. It was the perfect blueprint to beating the Patriots. Only a few teams have the ability to do it. The Giants were that team. I give them all the credit in the world.
 
HSanders said:
and ol play sucks pretty much all of september for a lot of teams because they don't practice that much since 2011. of all units, they have to be the most in synch to work properly. that takes time. talk about a concession that led to unintended consequences.
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This sounds good in theory; does it hold in practice, though?

Because if this hypothesis is true, I would expect to see some measure of overall league offensive production (average points scored per game, average yards per play) to increase gradually through the first few games of each of those years since 2011.

It would be even stronger evidence if there were no such early-season increase in years prior to 2011, or at least, if said increase were significantly less than after 2011.

:Lecture:
 
Patriots4ever said:
I hate to rehash SB 42 because it boils my blood. The OL couldn't block 4 guys. The Giants dropped 7 into coverage. It was the perfect blueprint to beating the Patriots. Only a few teams have the ability to do it. The Giants were that team. I give them all the credit in the world.
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The Giants oline could hold all day long...and not a call against them. Ellie should have been sacked, yet it wasn't called.
 
Peachhead said:
When your O-line sucks, your QB sucks.
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To a point, but some QB's adjust to do things that overcome a shaky oline. Luck has not yet. I saw some stat last week of the time it was taking Brady to get rid of the ball from the snap. This is by design. The pats have had turnover on the line as well, undrafted rookie at center, changing around at guard, etc. The issue exists if you have nobody to throw to and a bad line. Luck's line is not great, but he has weapons. Least we forget that the two players that were brought in the offseason would make the colts superbowl favorites. They have ran well, when they bothered to run with gore. QB's can help out a shaky line, Luck has not, and maybe some of that is what Hawg said about playcalling. It also seems that the finger is pointed to everything but luck at this point, except by him.
 
Patriots4ever said:
I hate to rehash SB 42 because it boils my blood. The OL couldn't block 4 guys. The Giants dropped 7 into coverage. It was the perfect blueprint to beating the Patriots. Only a few teams have the ability to do it. The Giants were that team. I give them all the credit in the world.
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Yet we went ahead with 2 minutes left in the game, only to lose on an Eli drive of miracle fashion...By the way, there is no blue print to beating the patriots. If you can get pressure with 4 and not have to blitz, that does well against most teams, but as I said, we still should have won.
 
Spentcartridge said:
Pretty hard to cover up O line play with a crappy QB. How would a young Bledsoe do with the current Pats O line? JMO.
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Agree. You put a Qb that holds the ball behind this current pats line, they have 15 sacks at this point in the season. Brady is big time masking some of the oline inexperience at this point.
 
Where can the NFL find 32 quality QBs?

There just isn't enough quality QBs to go around, which mandates that teams develop a superior O- line. Too often the fans end up watching a crap O-line and a mediocre QB and @ the end of the season the organization fires the HC or one of the coordinators and many fans think the following season will be better. :insane:
 
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