Randon Post-Draft Musings

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BB's rep is the only reason Houston even looked at Mallet IMO. They have 3 QBs on the roster with more experience than him, yet were open to trading for him. He is unproven and hasn't exactly wowed anyone here, but I'm sure more than a team or two thought seriously about Mallet because of BBs track record.
 
mooseontheloose said:
BB's rep is the only reason Houston even looked at Mallet IMO. They have 3 QBs on the roster with more experience than him, yet were open to trading for him. He is unproven and hasn't exactly wowed anyone here, but I'm sure more than a team or two thought seriously about Mallet because of BBs track record.
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Or the fact the HC was the commander in chief of the offense and knows precisely what the mental and physical capabilities of the kid are after working countless hours over the course of his time here.
 
Hawg73 said:
A solid post and I'll comment on the above, because I've been reading that sort of thing a lot lately.

I would not say "next to nothing", although clearly folks might've expected he'd have a bigger impact given the opportunity at the time. I get that folks were upset.

I'd say that Boyce showed me enough in a limited sample that I think he's got a lot of ability to work with. Maybe more than either Dobson or KT. I can recall some drops, some really nice plays and also some missed opportunities when he blew the doors off a DB and TFB+ never noticed or just missed a big connection. A rookie year of struggles, but there were flashes. The guy was getting open, imo. Stiffs can't do that.

The stats were paltry, but peel back the onion a bit and I think you can see genuine ability in him. When he catches one and turns upfield he looks like a natural and has real good wheels.

Maybe he was the runt of the litter mentally, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him get his shot this preseason and really do something with the chance.
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Maybe that came out incorrectly. I just think he had next to nothing stat wise. Overall, I agree with you. He very well could be the best of the drafted lot. I think he has the best attributes. Where it goes remains to be seen. But based off last years stats any projections are fruitless.

TommyD420 said:
This is my point. The Patriots have done the same thing this offseason.

The defense is going to be sick this season.
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Ahhhh. Now I get ya.

I agree.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
Boyce flashed next to nothing.

KT had periods of greatness coupled with unexplained disappearances. After NO, something to really launch off of, he was in witness protection.

Amendola was out in the 2nd half of Week 1.

Vereen broke his wrist in Week 1.

Edelman was the only viable healthy steady contributor.

Sure Dobson had good numbers at the end. But there were true rough patches in there, and had there been other options I'm 100% positive it would have been same with all rooks or FAs that struggle with TFB - maybe next year kid.

But somebody had to catch balls, and he was the fortunate one who continued to be force fed due to no other viable alternative.

Now he delays surgery. Misses this entire strength window. He'll miss all the timing and development camps. He might not even be a go at the start of TC.
For a guy who needed all of this and then some, and a huge injection of fight-for-the-ball, I'm not 100% on board with him making much, if any, of a year two leap.
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My point wasn't that the kids are guaranteed to improve, it is that counting on production from one of three potential second-year-leapers is a whole lot more likely than getting anything from a rookie.

True, there weren't a lot of alternatives, but the kid absolutely improved as the season went on and, IMO, was more useful than you give him credit for. I thought he played like a complete pussy in the preseason and was ready to write him off, but he was dramatically better in the regular season, even as early as the first Jet game. He was getting open in space and was pretty much a normal rookie fighting for a contested ball; not good, but not cover-your-eyes awful (like he was in the preseason).

Even if the injury sets him back, he'll still be an asset by virtue of the improvement he already made over the course of the season.

And even if that fails, there is still Boyce and Thompkins who could improve. Assuming none of them developed this year strikes me as more unrealistic than thinking one will.

The stats were paltry, but peel back the onion a bit and I think you can see genuine ability in him. When he catches one and turns upfield he looks like a natural and has real good wheels.
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I had the exact same feeling about Taylor Price. :wave:

They simply wouldn't get that much practice or playing time to hone their skill. I'd say that the development work BB has done under these circumstances is to his credit, not his detriment.
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Great point. And much more concise than my long-winded offering. :cool:
 
Oswlek said:
My point wasn't that the kids are guaranteed to improve, it is that counting on production from one of three potential second-year-leapers is a whole lot more likely than getting anything from a rookie.

True, there weren't a lot of alternatives, but the kid absolutely improved as the season went on and, IMO, was more useful than you give him credit for. I thought he played like a complete pussy in the preseason and was ready to write him off, but he was dramatically better in the regular season, even as early as the first Jet game. He was getting open in space and was pretty much a normal rookie fighting for a contested ball; not good, but not cover-your-eyes awful (like he was in the preseason).

Even if the injury sets him back, he'll still be an asset by virtue of the improvement he already made over the course of the season.

And even if that fails, there is still Boyce and Thompkins who could improve. Assuming none of them developed this year strikes me as more unrealistic than thinking one will.



I had the exact same feeling about Taylor Price. :wave:



Great point. And much more concise than my long-winded offering. :cool:
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To be perfectly honest I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Gallon leapfrog a them all as a rook. He has the flash, the fight, and the elusiveness. We hope last years draft class each develops one or more of those attributes each.

Edelman, Amendola, and Gallon. Gronk. RBBC.
 
Gallon certainly looks promising, but if Bill was worried he wouldn't have waited until the 7th to address the position. Even more so if the reports that they wanted to move on from Amendola are correct.

All signs point toward the team being pretty happy with last year's crop.

EDIT: Or most signs.... forgot about LaFell.
 
Oswlek said:
Gallon certainly looks promising, but if Bill was as worried as you are he wouldn't have waited until the 7th to address the position. Even more so if the reports that they wanted to move on from Amendola are correct.

All signs point toward the team being pretty happy with last year's crop.

EDIT: Or most signs.... forgot about LaFell.
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Other more pressing needs took priority. OL rebuild in full force. And Gallons stature dropped him to a point where I'm sure they said he's just too skilled to pass over here.

Or maybe it's just a giant present to appease Brady - a Michigan skill position alum - to appease him after the JG pick.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
Other more pressing needs took priority. OL rebuild in full force. And Gallons stature dropped him to a point where I'm sure they said he's just too skilled to pass over here.

Or maybe it's just a giant present to appease Brady - a Michigan skill position alum - to appease him after the JG pick.
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True, but I stand by the statement that most signs point to them being OK with the youngsters. At this point, I see no reason to disagree with them. :)
 
Hawg73 said:
A solid post and I'll comment on the above, because I've been reading that sort of thing a lot lately.

I would not say "next to nothing", although clearly folks might've expected he'd have a bigger impact given the opportunity at the time. I get that folks were upset.

I'd say that Boyce showed me enough in a limited sample that I think he's got a lot of ability to work with. Maybe more than either Dobson or KT. I can recall some drops, some really nice plays and also some missed opportunities when he blew the doors off a DB and TFB+ never noticed or just missed a big connection. A rookie year of struggles, but there were flashes. The guy was getting open, imo. Stiffs can't do that.

The stats were paltry, but peel back the onion a bit and I think you can see genuine ability in him. When he catches one and turns upfield he looks like a natural and has real good wheels.

Maybe he was the runt of the litter mentally, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him get his shot this preseason and really do something with the chance.
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The way I've always understood how BB works is that the guy who practices best gets the most snaps - and targets. The fact that Boyce saw very few snaps and wasn't targeted much when he was running routes tells me that he didn't look all that great in practice. As far as getting open goes, even Ochostinko got open - quite a bit actually - but he rarely saw the throw come his way, mainly because he was almost always last on Brady's progression. And that's not just Brady's optional, within-the-game decision.

Brady's progression is built into each play that's part of the game plan designed jointly by McD, Brady and BB. Specific plays are installed to feature the guys who consistently show well in practice and modified by an estimation of who should be the most effective against the defense that they expect to see from that week's opponent. So, for instance, Edelman, Gronk, Dobson and KT may be his #1, #2, #3, and #4 targets overall (with Amendola and Vereen obviously in the mix), but the order could change from week-to-week based on how they think it's best to attack a specific opponent.

I can't speculate on what Boyce may have been doing (or not doing) in practice that held him back, but pretty clearly something was. Whether that "something" is fixable (or even already fixed) remains to be seen. With the additional competition from LaFell and, now, Gallon, I'd have to say the Boyce is certainly on the bubble (obviously Harrison, too). Amendola and KT, and even Dobson may be as well to some degree, but Boyce and Harrison are much closer to starting from scratch at this point.
 
Hawg73 said:
A solid post and I'll comment on the above, because I've been reading that sort of thing a lot lately.

I would not say "next to nothing", although clearly folks might've expected he'd have a bigger impact given the opportunity at the time. I get that folks were upset.

I'd say that Boyce showed me enough in a limited sample that I think he's got a lot of ability to work with. Maybe more than either Dobson or KT. I can recall some drops, some really nice plays and also some missed opportunities when he blew the doors off a DB and TFB+ never noticed or just missed a big connection. A rookie year of struggles, but there were flashes. The guy was getting open, imo. Stiffs can't do that.

The stats were paltry, but peel back the onion a bit and I think you can see genuine ability in him. When he catches one and turns upfield he looks like a natural and has real good wheels.

Maybe he was the runt of the litter mentally, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him get his shot this preseason and really do something with the chance.
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It's hard to say Boyce may be better than KT or Dobson while at the same time also explaining why Boyce had 6 consecutive healthy scratch games. The fact is that KT beat out Boyce in TC and Boyce only saw playing time after KT and Dobson both got injured after wk 12. Something to consider before saying KT is done this year. Personally, while both KT and Dobson had their rookie year issues, I saw more to like from KT than from Dobson.

Now, I think Gallon will make this team and he'll have some spectacular moments for us. At the same time I don't think KT is the guy he displaces despite Boyce being a 4th rnd pick. It's up to the guys in TC and injuries. Dobson may not even be ready to start TC and he will lose valuable training if he can't. We'll see. The best guys will stick.

edit: I meant to also say that Danny Amendola may not be as safe as some may think. He carries a $2.6M cap hit. The rest of his guaranteed money is sunk either way. He'd better play well enough to earn his spot.
 
IIRC Boyce seemed to be getting a little more playing time and made a couple of good plays just before he got hurt to end his season. His speed is the thing that I really like and would love to see him take the next step this season. I think all three rookies from last year have a very good chance to stick with the team again this year. I think 2 of them will become bonafide threats. I also think pint sized Gallon will find a niche on the team somewhere. Amendola has to improve too. Edelman probably has hit his ceiling but should be able to repeat what he did last year. Overall I think the WR position is in good shape.
 
Hey Os
Welcome back. What was it like to break away?
A whole new world out there?

Ps we do have some help coming for the OL.
 
MaineMan said:
I can't speculate on what Boyce may have been doing (or not doing) in practice that held him back, but pretty clearly something was. Whether that "something" is fixable (or even already fixed) remains to be seen. With the additional competition from LaFell and, now, Gallon, I'd have to say the Boyce is certainly on the bubble (obviously Harrison, too). Amendola and KT, and even Dobson may be as well to some degree, but Boyce and Harrison are much closer to starting from scratch at this point.
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Well stated and I wouldn't be surprised if you are correct and Boyce wasn't as hard-working as the Pats would like or was fine and yet still struggled with his assignments mentally and that put him a bit behind the 8 ball.

All I was trying to say is that his athletic skill is obvious and he might have proved to be a better YAC or deep option than his rookie teammates if he got a similar number of targets. The numbers at the position certainly indicate a struggle for him and a few other young guys who have their supporters, but I don't think we've seen enough yet to declare him as a done deal as several people seem to be suggesting.

I'm not completely sold on LaFell as a lock to make it here since we're talking numbers. I've seen too many Joey Galloways come and go to assume he's a fit just because he's got a body of work in the league. How many vet WRs have been penciled in only to get cut in TC over the years? I would not call him particularly goosebump inducing and that seems to be how he is perceived around here. Just sayin'.
 
Hawg73 said:
Well stated and I wouldn't be surprised if you are correct and Boyce wasn't as hard-working as the Pats would like or was fine and yet still struggled with his assignments mentally and that put him a bit behind the 8 ball.

All I was trying to say is that his athletic skill is obvious and he might have proved to be a better YAC or deep option than his rookie teammates if he got a similar number of targets. The numbers at the position certainly indicate a struggle for him and a few other young guys who have their supporters, but I don't think we've seen enough yet to declare him as a done deal as several people seem to be suggesting.

I'm not completely sold on LaFell as a lock to make it here since we're talking numbers. I've seen too many Joey Galloways come and go to assume he's a fit just because he's got a body of work in the league. How many vet WRs have been penciled in only to get cut in TC over the years? I would not call him particularly goosebump inducing and that seems to be how he is perceived around here. Just sayin'.
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Lafell doesn't do much for me, but his contract is much different than Galloway, Tory Holt and the like were signed for. He seems firmly in the team's plans for 2014, which might be due to NE having already decided they weren't likely to find their move TE in the draft.
 
Hawg73 said:
Well stated and I wouldn't be surprised if you are correct and Boyce wasn't as hard-working as the Pats would like or was fine and yet still struggled with his assignments mentally and that put him a bit behind the 8 ball.

All I was trying to say is that his athletic skill is obvious and he might have proved to be a better YAC or deep option than his rookie teammates if he got a similar number of targets. The numbers at the position certainly indicate a struggle for him and a few other young guys who have their supporters, but I don't think we've seen enough yet to declare him as a done deal as several people seem to be suggesting.

I'm not completely sold on LaFell as a lock to make it here since we're talking numbers. I've seen too many Joey Galloways come and go to assume he's a fit just because he's got a body of work in the league. How many vet WRs have been penciled in only to get cut in TC over the years? I would not call him particularly goosebump inducing and that seems to be how he is perceived around here. Just sayin'.
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LaFell, in my eyes, is decent insurance and he may be able to push Dobson in TC wh/ is what Dobson lacked last year. Molasses Jenkins was never a threat to Dobson. LaFell should at least be able to push Dobson to be more physical in his breaks and more physical in catching the ball in tight coverage. LaFell's contract was surprising to me in that the Pats gave him a $1M signing bonus & another $4M guaranteed. That's a lot of cash to swallow unless he can be traded (haha). It seems unlikely to me he'd be released unless he simply melts in practices and at that point his trade value drops like lead cannon balls. Move TE is also a possibility.
 
Exactly chev.

The devil is in the details, and $4 mil worth of guarantees sure seems to indicate he's a virtual lock, in some role.

I'm not gonna dance on the table of the mail room like Elf over it, but I hope it pans out.
 
Oswlek said:
Lafell doesn't do much for me, but his contract is much different than Galloway, Tory Holt and the like were signed for. He seems firmly in the team's plans for 2014, which might be due to NE having already decided they weren't likely to find their move TE in the draft.
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I'm with you. I find that contract so strange, since LaFell screams "camp fodder" to me.
 
Dwight Schrute said:
Maybe agents are finally catching on to the Pats camp fodder ways and structuring their deals to make that far more difficult.
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Unlikely. If NE viewed him as camp fodder, they wouldn't have signed him for that regardless of what the agent says. They would have just moved on.
 
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