Saints Hammered

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ProvidenceColts said:
I don't know, maybe he just believes that they were just following orders and that the appropriate parties (Payton and Williams) are the ones that should be and have been punished?


Interesting that Gregg Williams admits that the bounty system did in fact take place, and he threw Vilma under the bus (saying that Vilma orchestrated the Favre bounty in the NFCCG).
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I'm not going to pretend I know how he has the authority to do this, but since he deemed "the punishment does not fit the crime" - hey Tags, can you get the Pats 2008 1st round pick back next? TIA.
 
According to the radio, the reason these aren't being upheld, is Tagliabeau (sp?) said the
Saint coaches and management corrupted the process.
 
TommyD420 said:
This strikes me as "time served".
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That's what it appears to be, because Tagliabue certainly isn't saying that the players are "innocent":

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello released a statement saying that Tagliabue affirms the findings of commissioner Roger Goodell that the players "engaged in conduct detrimental," but opted to "vacate all player discipline" anyway.
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Gregg Williams has now thrown Joe Vitt under the bus, as well:

Former New Orleans defensive coordinator Gregg Williams testified that he tried to shut down the team's bounty system when the NFL began investigating but was overruled by interim Saints head coach Joe Vitt, according to transcripts from appeals hearings obtained by The Associated Press.


According to the transcripts, Williams said that then-assistant Vitt responded to a suggestion that the pay-for-pain setup be abandoned with an obscenity-filled speech about how NFL commissioner Roger Goodell "wasn't going to ... tell us to ... stop doing what won us the Super Bowl. This has been going on in the ... National Football League forever, and it will go on here forever, when they run (me) out of there, it will still go on."
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8...rdinator-testified-tried-stop-bounties-report

The fact that Gregg Williams is denying being the ringleader is suspect, but the fact that he seems adamant that the bounty system did in fact exist...
 
More fun from the proceedings...

Williams referred to the case as "somewhat of a witch hunt." He said he wants to coach in the NFL again, "took responsibility so that nobody else had to," and that Vilma has "been made a scapegoat."
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Umm, you kinda threw him under the bus and you haven't really taken any responsibility. I mean, there's...

Williams stood by his earlier sworn statement that Vilma pledged a $10,000 bounty on quarterback Brett Favre in the Saints' game against the Minnesota Vikings for the NFC championship.
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That's probably why he's been looked at as a "scapegoat" with someone rolling on him and saying that he orchestrated it...

Cerullo described pregame meetings during the playoffs, when the Saints faced quarterback Kurt Warner of the Arizona Cardinals and then Favre.

He said Vitt told players Warner "should have been retired" and "we're going to end the career tomorrow of Kurt Warner." Cerullo also quoted Vitt as saying of Favre: "That old man should have retired when I was there. Is he retiring, isn't he retiring -- that whole (thing) is over, you know, tomorrow. ... We'll end the career tomorrow. We'll force him to retire. ..."


Cerullo testified that, once word came that the NFL was investigating, Williams told him to delete computer files about bounty amounts and that Vitt checked on his progress.
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So, apparently Cerullo agrees with Williams' assessment that Vitt was the ringleader.
 
I still think it's a whole lot about nothing. Much like spy gate was overblown. These things did little to give their teams an edge and illegal hits are illegal and subject to heavy fines. Smart players don't do them anyway.
 
midgar8784 said:
Well it seems like he did not say they were innocent, I think he just put more of the blame on the coaches, than the players.
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I agree. Tags found that Goodell was justified in the punishment and went a bit further by saying even more Saints players could have been punished. Tags also found the Saints coaches corrupted the entire process by pointing fingers in circular fashion which made the truth impossible for him to determine. Tags also has Vilma admitting to placing the bounty that Vilma has denied placing so vigorously for months. None of the players were absolved of guilt. Tags simply felt time served was enough but that the NFL could also fine the players. The NFL said yesterday it would not do that.

I don't know how Goodell will be seen historically from BountyGate, but Tags' findings supported Goodell every step of the way. The players involved claiming vindication is complete rubbish.
 
grog said:
I still think it's a whole lot about nothing. Much like spy gate was overblown. These things did little to give their teams an edge and illegal hits are illegal and subject to heavy fines. Smart players don't do them anyway.
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I think the intent to injure makes this much more serious. All the Pats did wrong was film coaches signals from the wrong place.
 
1960Pats said:
I think the intent to injure makes this much more serious. All the Pats did wrong was film coaches signals from the wrong place.
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no offense but that is BS, one is not greater than the other - both are wrong and both staffs knew better.

every time I made a tackle my intent was to hit hard and inflict pain, to injure the ball carrier. I wanted him to remember me and to fear coming my direction.

a bounty would not have made me more aggressive.
 
midgar8784 said:
Well it seems like he did not say they were innocent, I think he just put more of the blame on the coaches, than the players.
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Which is exactly what should have happened. Can you imagine what would have happened if in the middle of William's speech about knocking out the QB, a player stood up and said, "I'm sorry coach, but what you are saying would be detrimental to the league". That player would be risking getting benched, or cut.

Goodell is an idiot, plain and simple.
 
chevss454 said:
I agree. Tags found that Goodell was justified in the punishment and went a bit further by saying even more Saints players could have been punished. Tags also found the Saints coaches corrupted the entire process by pointing fingers in circular fashion which made the truth impossible for him to determine. Tags also has Vilma admitting to placing the bounty that Vilma has denied placing so vigorously for months. None of the players were absolved of guilt. Tags simply felt time served was enough but that the NFL could also fine the players. The NFL said yesterday it would not do that.

I don't know how Goodell will be seen historically from BountyGate, but Tags' findings supported Goodell every step of the way. The players involved claiming vindication is complete rubbish.
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Finally this topic is put to bed
 
Bedard's thoughts

Bounty ruling ends up serving both sides well

There was a wide spectrum of opinions on the winners and losers in Paul Tagliabue’s decision on the bounty case.
Basically, both sides got something and what we were left with was a deftly crafted settlement, even though NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith and Saints quarterback Drew Brees took the decision as total vindication for the players.
“Having seen nearly 50,000 pages of evidence and nearly 20 hours of testimony, I know that there was no bounty put on players by Saints players,” Smith said on CBS. Brees said Goodell had “very little to no credibility” with the players.
Both Smith and Brees must have missed the part where Tagliabue said that he upheld the factual findings of Goodell and that Anthony Hargrove, Will Smith, and Jonathan Vilma (not Scott Fujita, who was vindicated) engaged in “conduct detrimental” to the game.
Don’t know why anyone should be celebrating that. Tagliabue did vacate all player suspensions, though fines were certainly a possibility.
This is the point where Goodell comes under fire. His critics, including Tagliabue, said he came down too hard. Tagliabue went into the NFL’s past to look at how bounty programs and obstruction (Brett Favre sexual harassment case) were handled.
Here’s the question I have: If everyone, including Tagliabue, acknowledges that bounty programs have gone on for years — and have even been punished by the league — shouldn’t that validate Goodell coming down harder in this instance?
Tagliabue basically said that if Goodell wanted to change the culture, he needed to do it nicer and slower. He used Pete Rozelle and steroids as an example. Tagliabue said Rozelle used “a discipline-free transition year in the new policy,” to be nice to the players.
It’s a ridiculous comparison. We’re talking about player safety here, not bulking up. Maybe Tagliabue and the late Rozelle should be on the spot for letting it get to this point. Those previous penalties were obviously a joke and didn’t go far enough to ensure the safety of players.
The bottom line is this: Before Goodell came down hard, bounty programs of various degrees were carried out in the NFL by players and coaches. Regardless of Tagliabue’s decision, players and coaches are going to think twice about approaching anything that looks like a bounty.
Doesn’t sound like Goodell was wrong to me.
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http://bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/...allenge-ers/cPqWd9QSwbtWiVDQvWgywL/story.html

In his decision, Tagliabue included the Patriots as a team that was warned of bounties in 2007. The Pats bounties were for game changing plays rather than for putting a designated player out of the game.
 
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