2023: Higher or lower than the crowd on...

Share this page

Flagg the Wanderer

Flagg the Wanderer

Mourning Algernon
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
17,621
Reaction score
7,584
Points
113
Location
NH
Grab a player, position group, situation, whatever with the Patriots (or at least defensibly connected to them? Maybe? It is the 3RC, after all...)

Pick one that you're higher on than most seem to be, one that you're lower on than most. Explain. Or not.
 
Higher on Anderson
- I think the Patriots ideal scenario is that Anderson steps up into being a stable LT, and Brown shifts to RT to dominate next to Big Mike. And I think Anderson can do it. Maybe some bumps along the way, but he has the talent.

Lower on Gesicki than most I've seen.
- I think he's a big add and a fantastic chess piece, but not a game changer.
 
Higher on Bourne
- I truly believe that what we saw last year was an adult's tantrum rather than a step back. He didn't buy in, he wasn't engaged, and it showed on the field with him both making mental mistakes and pushing too much. Personality-wise, he is the closest the patriots really get to the Diva WR, but there's an explosive element to his game that is missing elsewhere. I expect him to take a step forward from where he was in 2021, and be a key, explosive part of the offense.

Lower on Parker
- I'm not as low on him as I was earlier this year, but he's a "steady" player who has a problem with availability. I don't see him as the top WR on this team, and his ceiling is low. As long as he stays on the field, I think he's a stable producer (in a normal offensive system), but the way I see him is that throwing to him is almost the equivalent of a checkdown. I do think a good OC can use him effectively, but if at the end of the year Parker is the best WR on the team, that's not a good sign.
 
Higher on AFC Central
- Who is the worst team in the Central? Bengals are probably a step back with their defense getting decimated, but every team in the Central has a playoff-caliber roster, and each could legitimately win the division.

Lower on AFC West
- Chiefs are still going to be very good, but I don't get the hype beyond that. Broncos could turn it around, but quite possible that they don't. Chargers are hollow. Raiders look very likely to be worse than last year, and their defense looks so awful that I thought I was missing something. Yeah, Maxx Crosby is good rushing the passer, and the molding corpse of Chandler Jones might help, but they may have the NFL's worst collection of "talent" in the secondary. I don't mean to talk badly about the dynamic starting CB duo of Duke Shelley and Nate Hobbs, but...
 
I would say that our interior DL, which can be tricky to define, is significantly better than a majority of people do with all of the
attention on the end/edge.

Most observers know that Barmore has big talent, but few have noticed that, after an admittedly rough start learning our D, Davon Godchaux has
turned out to be an asset. Last week I actually saw him ranked pretty high at NT . Godchaux is very different stylistically than most
middle DLs in this league, since he isn't as big as the norm and plays an upright style, where he will give a little ground before shedding
and filling, but he's had some really nice games that draw little notice. How many would guess that he racked up 62 combined tackles
last season and started every game? That is a lot of tackles for an inside guy.

His partner Lawrence Guy, who sometimes will slide to DE, get noticed more for his off-field charitable stuff, but has been a leader and
a dependable, productive player. He's getting up there in age, but has been a solid addition for a number of years, imo.

Carl Davis gets noticed for an occasional boneheaded blunder, but is handy to have around as a low-cost backup option who is
powerful and hard to move. He's a good run defender who can cave in the middle on occasion.

I have hope that Sam Roberts might come on this season as he did show some skill as an interior penetrator in preseason, but didn't
do much of anything with the few snaps he got last year that counted. He doesn't have any polish or technique and played too high to get any leverage, but
I've seen worse who had the advantage of big program coaching in College. I think he's worth developing, but he needs to get a little bigger and a lot better
getting off blocks.
 
I'm higher on every position group than the general NFL.
Serious.
Our D should be top 5.
Our O should be "most improved" for 2023.

All the experts think the Pats will be last in the AFC East. That could happen and I wouldn't be surprised but at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats come in 2nd or 3rd.
1st might stretch credibility.
 
Last edited:
chevss454 said:
I'm higher on every position group than the general NFL.
Serious.
Our D should be top 5.
Our O should be "most improved" for 2023.

All the experts think the Pats will be last in the AFC East. That could happen and I wouldn't be surprised but at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats come in 2nd or 3rd.
1st might stretch credibility.
Click to expand...
I like your points and agree particularly on the "O" (although last year is a low hurdle to clear... what a cluster F that was)

I'm going to be cautiously optimistic on the D (not "low" but not getting carried away) as there's a tough schedule and the O's in the AFC East will be a Challenge. would love nothing more then to stuff Tua, Geezer-Aaron and Josh Allen, but it will be hard fought games.
at least this year the O shouldn't leave the D on the field all game (they better not) and get some points on the board to allow the D to do their thing.

man... when does football start. we're treading water here. what's next, the Mt. Rushmore of long snappers ? :coffee:
 
TommyD420 said:
I'm pretty low on the Central personally.

Since it hasn't existed in 21 years. :coffee:

Higher: Uche. Lower: Mac Jones
Click to expand...
Sorry, I was distracted with wondering whether the Colts are more likely to win the AFC East or the Seahawks in the AFC West.
 
TommyD420 said:
I'm pretty low on the Central personally.

Since it hasn't existed in 21 years. :coffee:

Higher: Uche. Lower: Mac Jones
Click to expand...
You are lower on Mac Jones? Why would that be the case? From what I have seen he was not the issue last season. Yes his yards were down but the whole offensive scheme was a total mess.
YearTeamCMP%YDSTDINTRating
2022Patriots65.22,997141184.8
2021Patriots67.63,801221392.5
Career66.56,798362489.0
As a whole the teams offence fell off a cliff but we know the reason for that and it was not Jones
www.patriots.com

Official New England Patriots News and Analysis

Get the latest official New England Patriots news and analysis.
www.patriots.com www.patriots.com
www.patriots.com

Official New England Patriots News and Analysis

Get the latest official New England Patriots news and analysis.
www.patriots.com www.patriots.com
 
TommyD420 said:
Higher: Uche. Lower: Mac Jones
Click to expand...
I almost replied this:
aloyouis said:
Higher: Mac Jones. Lower: Uche
Click to expand...
...but I was too busy marveling at my memory.
Patriots-Lifer said:
You are lower on Mac Jones? Why would that be the case? From what I have seen he was not the issue last season. Yes his yards were down but the whole offensive scheme was a total mess.
YearTeamCMP%YDSTDINTRating
2022Patriots65.22,997141184.8
2021Patriots67.63,801221392.5
Career66.56,798362489.0
As a whole the teams offence fell off a cliff but we know the reason for that and it was not Jones
www.patriots.com

Official New England Patriots News and Analysis

Get the latest official New England Patriots news and analysis.
www.patriots.com www.patriots.com
www.patriots.com

Official New England Patriots News and Analysis

Get the latest official New England Patriots news and analysis.
www.patriots.com www.patriots.com
Click to expand...

I agree with Cowherd on this:

View: https://twitter.com/TheHerd/status/1682095527238705179?s=20


...except I think Mac can be better than a B quarterback. I think he's a B right now, and can be an A- or even an A. As I've said, my best estimate for his ceiling is pre-injury Pennington, and it could be a slightly more athletic Drew Brees.

As for Uche, I think he's barely hitting his stride as a pass rusher, but I have very serious doubts that he'll ever be anything beyond a pure pass rusher that is a liability in all other areas. Especially with him dropping even more weight. And while hurries and sacks are sexy, it's not that useful in the broader context and the hyperspecialization and resultant overaggressiveness can be schemed around and even used to the benefit of the offense in the broader game. Belichick can use those guys, but doesn't pay to keep them around.
 
Great thread.

Patriots first:
High
defense and defensive draft picks

Low
WR core and Oline

High
Judon (I think he will get mentioned in MVP discussions but obviously won't win because it is a QB award)

Low
Mac Jones (I don't think last year was just about the coaching. Mac looked completely lost in the pocket and often misread defenses. With BOB aboard I fully expect that Zappe or another QB could get a shot at starting)

Rest of the league:
High
Commanders - expect them to be reinvorgated now that Snyder has gotten the boot

Low
Chiefs - they were gifted the #1 seed by the league last year. I don't see them cake walking to a repeat like so many seem to think in media land
 
Flagg the Wanderer said:
I almost replied this:

...but I was too busy marveling at my memory.


I agree with Cowherd on this:

View: https://twitter.com/TheHerd/status/1682095527238705179?s=20


...except I think Mac can be better than a B quarterback. I think he's a B right now, and can be an A- or even an A. As I've said, my best estimate for his ceiling is pre-injury Pennington, and it could be a slightly more athletic Drew Brees.

As for Uche, I think he's barely hitting his stride as a pass rusher, but I have very serious doubts that he'll ever be anything beyond a pure pass rusher that is a liability in all other areas. Especially with him dropping even more weight. And while hurries and sacks are sexy, it's not that useful in the broader context and the hyperspecialization and resultant overaggressiveness can be schemed around and even used to the benefit of the offense in the broader game. Belichick can use those guys, but doesn't pay to keep them around.
Click to expand...

It may just be Muse and I, but I think MAC Jones can be a literal superstar. I think that was the path he was on prior to the Patricia ridiculousness. I see no reason why he won't be back on that path with Bill O'Brien.
 
aloyouis said:
It may just be Muse and I, but I think MAC Jones can be a literal superstar. I think that was the path he was on prior to the Patricia ridiculousness. I see no reason why he won't be back on that path with Bill O'Brien.
Click to expand...
Agree. When BoB came to Bama it was Mac who helped him with the playbook to make the team and both of them better. They have a great chemistry and the same goal. #MacIsOurQB1
 
Flagg the Wanderer said:
Higher on AFC Central
- Who is the worst team in the Central? Bengals are probably a step back with their defense getting decimated, but every team in the Central has a playoff-caliber roster, and each could legitimately win the division.

Lower on AFC West
- Chiefs are still going to be very good, but I don't get the hype beyond that. Broncos could turn it around, but quite possible that they don't. Chargers are hollow. Raiders look very likely to be worse than last year, and their defense looks so awful that I thought I was missing something. Yeah, Maxx Crosby is good rushing the passer, and the molding corpse of Chandler Jones might help, but they may have the NFL's worst collection of "talent" in the secondary. I don't mean to talk badly about the dynamic starting CB duo of Duke Shelley and Nate Hobbs, but...
Click to expand...
I'm not Cliff from Cheers, but there is no AFC Central. There is East,North, South, and West.

Higher: Mac the Knife will exceed all expectations.
Lower: Aaron Rogers will not lead the Jets to the playoffs.
 
Mazz22 said:
Great thread.

Patriots first:
High
defense and defensive draft picks I can agree with this one.

Low
WR core and Oline You are by far under appreciating the WRs and TEs. In fact I think they will surprise most of the NFL this year.

High
Judon (I think he will get mentioned in MVP discussions but obviously won't win because it is a QB award)

Low
Mac Jones (I don't think last year was just about the coaching. Mac looked completely lost in the pocket and often misread defenses. With BOB aboard I fully expect that Zappe or another QB could get a shot at starting) You could not be more wrong and again it is just your biased about Mac Jones that makes you say junk like this.

Rest of the league:
High
Commanders - expect them to be reinvorgated now that Snyder has gotten the boot

Low
Chiefs - they were gifted the #1 seed by the league last year. I don't see them cake walking to a repeat like so many seem to think in media land
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top