Divisional Round - Chiefs at Patriots 1/16 4:35pm (CBS)
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Hootie2485
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Says the guy who said Maclin would be no upgrade to Dwayne Bowe because of Alex Smith?
(Yes, this truly happened).
Clay was one of the very few people who agreed with me that ESPN QBR is the current best tool at evaluating QB's in the NFL prior to the 2015 NFL season.
What happened?
Alex Smith finished #8 overall in total QBR
http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr
Of the top 11 QB's, 9 of them made the playoffs. The only playoff teams without a top 13 QBR guy was Denver and Houston.
If anything, QBR UNDERVALUES guys like Tom Brady who rely on a 'dink and dunk' offense to move the football (and not deep passes).
Do I truly think Alex Smith is better than Tom Brady? No. No way.
But just to put this guy in context ... he spent an entire offseason bashing Sean Smith because he was the lowest rated CB on PRO FOOTBALL FOCUS his last season with Miami.
He then decided to stop using PFF because it favored Alex Smith.
Then, he totally backs QBR ... you know, until QBR decides Alex Smith is, you know, a pretty damn good NFL QB.
The Patriots shouldn't fear the Chiefs as much as they should fear what happened over on CP this year with guys like Clay Wendler. They have reverse mojo'd KC so much that a pessimistic sports fan like myself officially thinks the AFC is KC's to lose.
Either way, the winner of this Pats/KC game is going to the Super Bowl. This is basically the AFCCG.
...and as a guy who just saw his Royals win the World Series ... I'm glad we have to take this path, because a Super Bowl will feel a lot better having taken down the mighty Pats than getting a sloppy Denver team or a broken Pitt team.
To be the best, you have to beat the best. This Saturday is going to be one hell of a game. I look forward to it.
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I tell you what, if the Chiefs win this game, I will be pulling for them for the Superbowl.
Hootie2485
Member
I can never pull for a team with 4 rings to win another Super Bowl ... but I think they'd be the only team [if they beat KC] in the AFC that would have a shot at beating Seattle / Carolina or Arizona.
If the Chiefs were to lose, I'd want to see a Seattle / NE rematch with Seattle redeeming themselves after last year's debacle.
I think the NFL wants to see Brady / Manning Part 27 as the "final duel", but my God, Manning is a freaking corpse out there ...
and if anyone thinks Manning is truly a choker ... how in the world is he going to perform now that any missteps will result in an entire fan base / nation saying, "should have been Osweiler!"
Dude literally has to win it all or he'll be eviscerated by every Denver / football in in America. Talk about pressure ...
If the Chiefs were to lose, I'd want to see a Seattle / NE rematch with Seattle redeeming themselves after last year's debacle.
I think the NFL wants to see Brady / Manning Part 27 as the "final duel", but my God, Manning is a freaking corpse out there ...
and if anyone thinks Manning is truly a choker ... how in the world is he going to perform now that any missteps will result in an entire fan base / nation saying, "should have been Osweiler!"
Dude literally has to win it all or he'll be eviscerated by every Denver / football in in America. Talk about pressure ...
1) QBR is a bullshit stat. It has been proven hundreds of times.
2) For the love of christ, STOP WITH THE CROSS-BOARD TROLLING. For ****'s sake, take it to PM and shut the **** up already.
3) I barely give a shit about baseball. I certainly don't give a shit about the Kansas City ****ing Royals.
Yeah...except that when their healthy this isn't really the kind of offense the Pats run. It's not full on downfield vertical but it isn't all dump offs to backs. What makes Brady the GOAT is how fast he can process 4-5 reads and deliver the ball where it is most effective.
With this comment you show yourself to be the average clueless fan. All that's missing is you calling Brady a system QB or saying that Vinatieri was the guy who won the first 3 Super Bowls.
Hootie2485
Member
basically, what I'm trying to say is ...
with Roeth and Peyton being severely hobbled or mummified ... there are two teams in the AFC that have a shot at winning a Super Bowl ... and that's New England and KC.
Hell, even Denver's defense became exposed down the stretch. That Denver / Pitt game is going to be one sloppy shit fest. I'd take the under on that one all day long.
with Roeth and Peyton being severely hobbled or mummified ... there are two teams in the AFC that have a shot at winning a Super Bowl ... and that's New England and KC.
Hell, even Denver's defense became exposed down the stretch. That Denver / Pitt game is going to be one sloppy shit fest. I'd take the under on that one all day long.
According to ESPN QBR, Brandon Weeden had a better game than Brady when the Pats beat the Cowboys. That's absolutely the dumbest goddamn thing that you can cling to.
FOXBORO — It was just like they were back in California.
Patriots quarterback Tom Brady and wide receiver Julian Edelman broke off into the field house alongside the Gillette Stadium practice fields on multiple occasions in recent weeks to work on Edelman’s conditioning and their chemistry with the route tree.
<aside id="related-content">
</aside>They’ve worked on this routine for years. Run a route, get back to the line and run another. Up and down the field. Over and over again.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/p..._brady_offense
You do realize when Hightower and Jamie Collins are on the field the Pats are a top 10 defense, right?
BB is never confused.
Both Ben Munchausen and Peyton Manning are 100% healthy. Peyton Manning has been healthy all season. Brock Osweiler is also currently healthy.
And 'any given Sunday' is a thing. It's overused, but it's still a legitimate thing. It's foolhardy to say the winner of NE/KC has a bye to the Super Bowl.
---------- Post added at 03:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 PM ----------
Fixed.
Also, an Andy Reid offense "confusing" anyone, might be the funniest thing I've heard all day.
Hootie2485
Member
I think Tom Brady is the best QB in the NFL this year. Either Brady or Wilson. I'm not bashing Tom Brady's "dink and dunk" system ... I'm saying he isn't graded well on QBR because his passing is predicated on YAC. He's brilliant for the exact reason you say ... he processes 4-5 reads and gets the ball to the right guy most of the time. He also mans up and throws at the sticks on 3rd and long.
I'm not here to bash Tom Brady. Tom Brady is an all-time great. Tom Brady is amazing. Relax. I watched plenty of Tom Brady this year and if you want to tell me he's Ben Roethlisberger out there chucking 20+ yard passes 25 times a game ... well ... ok?
As for QBR ... I realize Pats fans won't understand it. They don't understand the game where he was graded poorly for Edelman making an all-time great TD catch and run and Dion Lewis pulling off a Houdini act to get another TD catch ... and then the game getting out of hand after Brady had a poor 1st half.
I know. I get it. I'm not here to bash Tom Brady. I have nothing but wonderful things to say about Tom Brady's 2015. He was tremendous. He's a great leader. He's an amazing QB. Relax.
But QBR is the best tool we have to evaluate QB play. 9 of the top 11 made the playoffs ... only 2 teams didn't have a QBR QB ranked top 13 that made the playoffs (Denver / Houston). Both of these teams didn't have a QB who started over 10 games, either (it's a cumulative stat).
Everyone knows, especially Pats fans, consistent QB play is the way to consistently win in the NFL ...
so I'm sure it's all one big coincidence about 10 of the playoff QB's being top 13 QBR QB's in 2015.
---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:46 PM ----------
Manning might be '100%' healthy ... but this 2016 version of Manning is about 1/5 the QB the 2006 version of Peyton Manning was ...
Tom Brady has been the same freaking QB for 10 years now ... hell, he keeps getting better.
And Roeth is not healthy. What? It was just reported he has torn ligaments in his throwing shoulder. Brown is unlikely for Sunday, too. Denver is the luckiest team I've ever seen this year. They don't really even have any business being in the playoffs ... and they suddenly have the easiest route to the AFCCG. If Roeth is severely limited and Brown doesn't play? How does Denver lose that game?
---------- Post added at 02:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:48 PM ----------
This wasn't meant to be a compliment to Andy Reid. At all. In fact, it was an insult.
You are a fvcking idiot if you believe this. Did you entirely miss what I said earlier??? Brandon FVCKING WEEDEN had a higher QBR than Brady in that Pats/Cowboys game! Are you going to try to tell me that he had a better game just because he chucked the ball further down field more than Brady did?? Only somebody off their meds and completely clueless would believe that this statistic means shit.
Hootie2485
Member
That was the exact game I just referenced ...
I watched that game. Brady was abysmal in the 1st half .. took several sacks and fumbled. Despite struggling, they held a 13-3 halftime lead.
And then, Brady propped up his stat line by throwing a TD to Edelman for 59 yards where Edelman had about the best run after catch I've seen all year.
He followed that up by throwing a TD to Dion Lewis where Dion Lewis somehow evaded 6 tacklers and houdini'd his way into the end zone.
I imagine Brady didn't get positive grades for those throws since he had very little to do with the outcome.
So, with 13 minutes left in the 4th quarter of this game the score was 27-6. The game was over, and Brady no longer had the chance to improve his QBR, which was weighed down by the abysmal 26 minutes he had to start the game, and was not propped up by his two TD passes since they were largely aided by his skill players ability to make Dallas defenders look silly.
Again, this is not me bashing Tom Brady, this is me being realistic.
Drive charts in the 1st half:
4 plays; punt
5 plays, 14 yards, field goal (forced turnover)
5 plays; punt
5 plays; punt
7 plays; TD
3 plays; punt
4 plays, 16 yards, field goal (forced turnover)
There 1 TD drive started on their 45, was aided by a penalty, 5 short passes, and a 13 yard run by Dion Lewis.
These are just facts. I'm sorry. I've already said that I don't think QBR gives enough credit to QB's who rely on short passes about four times.
---------- Post added at 03:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 PM ----------
and again, I think Tom Brady is wonderful ... but he's not going to grade out 90 QBR every single game. I remember this game fondly because, again, he was my FanDuel QB and I was not having fun watching the 1st half of this one ...
if anything, FanDuel caused me to be a huge Tom Brady fan boy this year because for about the first 6 weeks I thought 'deflategate' was going to result in Tom Brady 2007 Part 2. I thought they were going to purposely try and break every record in the book.
---------- Post added at 03:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:04 PM ----------
and again, I think Tom Brady is wonderful ... but he's not going to grade out 90 QBR every single game. I remember this game fondly because, again, he was my FanDuel QB and I was not having fun watching the 1st half of this one ...
if anything, FanDuel caused me to be a huge Tom Brady fan boy this year because for about the first 6 weeks I thought 'deflategate' was going to result in Tom Brady 2007 Part 2. I thought they were going to purposely try and break every record in the book.
Like the typical asshole opposing fan, you are ENTIRELY missing my point...BRANDON WEEDEN HAD A HIGHER QBR IN THIS GAME THAN BRADY DID!!! In what fvcking parallel universe did Weeden have a better game than Brady??? Like I said, you are RETARDED if you think this statistic means anything.
Quit trying to play nice with me- as I general rule I absolutely HATE opposing fans on this board (with a couple exceptions) and think you should all pretty much be banned on sight. I prefer the ones that dish it back. You just think you're being cute...you're not.
Big/Sky/Fly
370hssv vw6!s tu36v
Both Ben Munchausen and Peyton Manning are 100% healthy. Peyton Manning has been healthy all season. Brock Osweiler is also currently healthy.
And 'any given Sunday' is a thing. It's overused, but it's still a legitimate thing. It's foolhardy to say the winner of NE/KC has a bye to the Super Bowl.
---------- Post added at 03:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 PM ----------
Fixed.
Also, an Andy Reid offense "confusing" anyone, might be the funniest thing I've heard all day.
Andy Reid confuses himself...
OP
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Well, we are not going to start banning visiting fans on sight. There are many that enjoy them posting here.
Please argue the issue if you care to, and not start so early with the insults.
I know...and I guess my feelings towards these interlopers is pretty well known by now as well.
I'm trying to argue the point, he keeps ignoring it.
Oh, **** you, toolbag, we "understand" it just fine. It's a bullshit stat. It's been proven bullshit hundreds of times.
It's probably the worst tool.
#6 Kirk Cousins.
#7 Tyrod ****ing Taylor
#8 Alex Smith
All ranked ahead of:
#9 Cam Newton - the MVP
#10 Aaron Rodgers - the reigning MVP
#11 Tom Brady - the reigning Super Bowl MVP, and runner up for this year
There is some slappy in Bristol, whose job it is to determine what "clutch" is, and is over-weighted to running quarterbacks (Tyrod Taylor. Please.).
Light reading:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/10/espns-qbr-ranks-ryan-fitzpatrick-ahead-of-tom-brady/
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/10/espns-qbr-stat-puts-tebow-ahead-of-rodgers/
Week 9 Action in 2013:
Drew Brees
26/36 (72.2%) 332yds 5 TD 0 INT, 146 Rating, 70 QBR
http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=331027018
Terrelle Pryor
10/19 (52.6%) 88yds 0 TD 2 INT, 9 car. 105yds 1 TD, 25 Rating 96.2 QBR
http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=331027013
Colin Kaepernick
10/16 (62.5%) 164yds 1 TD, 7 car. 54yds 2 TDs, 117 Rating, QBR 99.8
http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=331027030
NE @ Dallas Week 4 this season:
-Brady 20-27 (74.0%) 275 yds, 2 TD, 2 car, 3 yds, 1 TD - 130.9 Rating
-Weeden 26-39 (66.7%) 188 yds, 0 TD, 1 INT, 3 car, 18 yds, 0 TD - 67.0 Rating
Brady's QBR- 24.1
Weeden's QBR- 27.5
I can do this all night. QBR is absolute bullshit.
It's a complete and total coincidence. 10 of the playoff QBs are in the top 12 in passer rating. But, Alex Smith is only 11th in passer rating, but 8th in QBR. Interesting.
Don't believe everything you read from ESPN (which, by your love of QBR, it seems like you do).
Every report out of Pittsburgh, EXCEPT for the Holtzman report, and every other report that quotes it, says that Ben Munchausen and Antonio Brown will be just fine.
Both Munchausen and Brown will not only play, they will start, they will play well and they will be called "Warriors" about a trillion times.
Hootie2485
Member
QBR isn't graded that way ...
They both scored mid 20's ... that's a bad game. QBR is a formula. They both graded out poorly. I merely showed to you WHY Tom Brady graded our poorly. His two big plays were both made by his skill players (and try to argue otherwise, it was the Edelman catch & run and the Lewis houdini TD) ...
so, while his stat line is eye popping and is definitely great ... it was aided by two big plays in a blowout game that prevented him from building back his score after a really awful 26 minute start to the game.
It is what it is, man.
He had a 77.4 QBR in their loss to the Jets ... because he had a clutch 4th quarter drive and he was the best player on the field offensively for New England that day.
Against Dallas, he wasn't.
All QBR said that day was Tom Brady didn't have a huge hand in the outcome of the game against Dallas. And he didn't. You cannot argue otherwise, unless you're a total homer. It is what it is.
I realize that QBR doesn't automatically rank Tom Brady #1 in QBR every single season so Patriots fans do not like it. I totally understand that ... but he has had #1 overall finishes, is almost always in the top 10 ...
but again, for the 6th time, I don't think QBR gives enough credit to QB's who utilize the short passing game. Tom Brady is a short passing game QB ... and he's the best short passing game QB in the history of the NFL by an insanely wide margin.
So, I do agree, to a small extent, that QBR is a BIT unfair to Tom Brady.
Darth Despot
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QBR is all the "reporters" at ESPN drink a fifth of Tequila and measure their dicks, in millimeters, then randomly pull QB names out of a hat to attach to the dick measurement numbers.
Hannah Storm is the 99.5.
Hannah Storm is the 99.5.